USM Forum -- Message Board - USM Forum -- Message Board

Advocate

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216005

Well Stated

Faculty Senate Statement – 12/16/04 The USM Faculty Senate affirms its commitment to joining the University community in resolving the University’s SACS accreditation crisis. However, the Senate expresses its profound concern over the circumstances and sequence of events that have le...

Advocate

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216001

Reporter Jr

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216001

Reporter Jr

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/412160302/1002

Jeff Foxworthy

you might be a little, redneck university if..... your Public Relations Department refers to a chartered bus trip to the Wyndham New Orleans Bowl as a "once in a lifetime opportunity".... your President was named Paint & Coatings Magazine "Man of the Year".... your administration says...

Jeff Foxworthy

you might be a little, redneck university if.... your central administration unit even owns (not to mention plans to use) classroom space allocation software.... the newspaper headline on your latest basketball victory reads "Big Win Over NAIA Opponent".... The first question from&nbs...

Jeff Foxworthy

you might be a little, redneck university if ...... your marquee academic program is in plastics.... your women's basketball coach's last name is "Lee-McNelis," yet your President insists on calling her "McNelis" in public forums.... you pay the person you recently hired to fix your SACS p...

Nightowl

December 15, 2004 9:27 PM Thames scheduled for morning College Board appearance USM president scheduled to meet with SACS officials later Thursday; check here for meeting

Bubba Foxworthy

You know you've at the wrong university if . . . . . 1. The university's snack bar designates Tuesdays as "Ladies Night." 2. You enter the university bookstore and find shotgun racks in lieu of convenience lockers to use while shopping. 3. The postmast...

Angeline

From the H'burg American: Board meeting The state College Board will meet at 1:30 p.m. today in the ninth-floor board room of the Institutions of Higher Learning building, 3825 Ridgewood Road, Jackson. University of Southern Mississippi President Shelby Thames will address quest...

Will Watson

Today, Tuesday 14 December, several faculty senators raised the possibility of another no confidence vote on SJT. What does the board think? I doubt that anyone here can really be said to have confidence in Thames, but, as a tactic, would a no confidence vote be fruitful? Why? Wh...

FireShelby

Would like to hear from some of my old Fire Shelby friends who used to email me. I promise it's me. Truth, if you would email me, I will verify that it's me, Fire Shelby. FireShelby@gmail.com

Left (formerly Leaving Soon)

Powerful words are being written among us on this board in response the most recent fiasco under Thames. But these words are inaudible, invisible to anyone who does not read this board. Isn't it high time for visible, audible ACTION? Or would you rather wait until after USM has lost its accreditation...

Amy Young

Friends, The AAUP executive committee met yesterday evening and drafted the following position statement regarding SACS probation for USM. I hope it is posted on our website soon. As every ball team needs a good coach, and every orchestra a good conductor, the team of individuals who are working...

Delta Dawn

On the first day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me a grocery store designed for Nursing On the second day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me Two lawyers leaping And a grocery store designed for Nursing On the third day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me Three Kentu...

Robert Campbell

I wanted to make sure that Myron Henry's comments--and the mystification surrounding Thames' failure to show at the Board meeting--got prompt coverage. See http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9067.html Robert Campbell

Angeline

At the H'burg American: Schedule unclear for Thames' College Board appearance By Kevin Walters Session with Southern Miss leader on school's probation status will likely be handled in executive session; check Web site for updates throughout the day. This story will be updated througho...

Robert Campbell

I've posted some corrections about the hiring of Joy Hamilton on Liberty and Power: http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9062.html Thanks to everyone who provided information about Hamilton's background and straightened out my misapprehensions on this one. Today's blog entry also links to t...

Angeline

http://hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/NEWS01/412150316/1002

Googler

Oh, those crafty headline writers at the HA. In the "daily briefings" section on the front page of today's print version, the headline opposite the "4-year gap" SACS story is "Newton to visit Shelby." Upon closer examination, it seems that Mr. Las Vegas, Wayne Newton, will perform for troops...

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/OPINION03/412150314/1014/OPINION

truth4usm/AH

From the USM email listserv: IBM recent announcement and impact on the Global Knowledge Initiative: This week IBM announced an agreement with Lenovo under which Lenovo will acquire IBM's Personal Computing Division and create a powerful new global leader in the PC industry. I realize ev...

truth4usm/AH

Okay, this is what we've been waiting for everyone. We need to start writing letters to the editors, letters to College Board members, letters to the Alumni Association, etc. letting everyone know that this is the LAST STRAW when it comes to Papa Shelboo's administration. Letters fro...

Miss Information

To echo that other committee's sentiments, it has truly been an exceptional week. In fact, our committee held a Behind the Scenes meeting Under the Jellicle Moon to formally register exception to what has happened to our university, our Dearly Beloved One, this week under the direction of that Nitw...

COALer

What is the situation with this problem? (http://www.aaup-usm.org/)

Mandy Stringer

This is the first time I've seen this message board in months, but returned after hearing about the latest, which is horribly sad news. Excuse me if this has been addressed, but has anyone pointed out that between the $500,000 to clean up the SACS mess and the S/G thing, Shelby has cost the university ov...

Jeff Foxworthy

all your VP-level administrators refer to your President as "Boss..." your Physical Plant's warehouses are stocked full of employee time (punch) clocks, ready for installation at a moment's notice... your President's residence is a multi-family dwelling, housing both he/his family and t...

Vexed

Wasn't Jay Grimes the original Provost in Hattiesburg when the SACS problems started? Where does he fit in the mix. His public statements don't seem to inspire great confidence.

Cattleman

Have any of you heard that the students in the famous (and one-of-a-kind) doctoral program in International Development will have a surcharge of $250/hr (new students) or $85/hr (continuing students) to pay for a branding campaign for the degree program? So if you're a new student taking 10 hours,...

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/NEWS01/41214001/1002Exline said in a prepared statement that the position was posted and several candidates interviewed in November....

Advocate

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041213/OPINION01/412130323/1014/OPINION

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/NEWS01/412140302/1002

jimmy brown

I usually enjoy reading Eric Strinfellow's column in the Clarion-Ledger. This mornning's column is quite disappointing. It comes across as being optimisticaly uninformed.

Robert Campbell

Not a big increment this time, just an attempt to move the story along. http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9058.html Robert Campbell

FYI

See: http://www.sacscoc.org/ for all policies and procedures. One policy example below: http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/integrity.pdf Commission on Colleges Southern Association of Colleges and Schools 1866 Southern Lane Decatur, Georgia 30033-4097 INTEGRITY AN...

Last Tier

Does anyone know who will speak @ graduation? I really don't think I could sit through a speech by Barbour or Hewes!! Is there anything "special" planned for graduation?

Googler's Little Helper

Posters who keep up with the continuously changing and new features of Google should ignore this post. Others, not aware of this feature, but who wish to keep up with what the print media and the web is saying about the USM debacle, might find Google's "ALERT" feature useful. The ALERT...

stinky cheese man

folks--here's a link to the actions SACS took at its most recent meeting: http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/1204cract.pdf

Fire Shelby

College Criticized for Recruiting Postcard AP - Dec. 14, 2004 CRETE, Neb. - A private college is raising eyebrows with a recruiting postcard that shows a man surrounded by women and says students have the opportunity to "play the field." Doane College sent the cartoon...

ram

I just found this site on the USM website: Office of Institutional Effectiveness Scroll down a ways and you find a link to the Univeristy Assessment Committee and its current members. There is also a link to the committee's constitution. (A committee with a constitution? Okay, but that's not my po...

U.S. News & World Report

Auburn is about 60 years older than USM. Auburn has over 20,000 students, while USM (if truth be told) has less than 15,000 students. Auburn is one of the Top 50 Public Universities in the USA and resides in Tier 2 overall, USM recently moved down the scale from Tier 3 to Tier 4. Auburn has historic...

Not an M.D.

Does Thames have it all together? Is his health up to the pressures of the job? The guy looks like a walking heart attack or stroke victim, and his recent claims about not knowing of any problems with SACS make one wonder: Is he all there? Has anyone had a direct dealing with him lately?

Buh by, Shellgame

That's the day of the meeting. That's the day SHELBY NEEDS TO BE FIRED!~!!!!! No more chances. SACS ought to be the final straw.

Robert Campbell

Here's the latest roundup in Liberty and Power, with some thoughts about "Hobson's choice." http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9033.html Robert Campbell

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=OPINION

huh?

http://www.petitiononline.com/usmtruth/petition.html

info

The blogosphere is heating up again. You'll want to bookmark these sites, if you haven't already. http://blog.lordsutch.com/ Dec. 8, 2004 Double not-so-secret probation The fun in Hattiesburg never ends; the Hattiesburg American reports that Southern Miss w...

truth4usm/AH

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041213/NEWS01/41213004

Topic		Started By	Replies	Views	Last Post
	CL: Thames, "I'll fix it." (Preview) http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216005	Advocate	8	516	Dec 16, 2004 by Invictus
	Faculty Senate Statement (Preview) Faculty Senate Statement – 12/16/04 The USM Faculty Senate affirms its commitment to joining the University community in resolving the University’s SACS accreditation crisis. However, the Senate expresses its profound concern over the circumstances and sequence of events that have le...	Well Stated	1	380	Dec 16, 2004 by Let Freedom Ring
	HA: Thames criticized by board (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216001	Advocate	0	331	Dec 16, 2004 by Advocate
	Thames Reprimanded (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/41216001	Reporter Jr	3	414	Dec 16, 2004 by interested bystander
	FS Meeting-Exline (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041216/NEWS01/412160302/1002	Reporter Jr	0	267	Dec 16, 2004 by Reporter Jr
	little, redneck university (Part III) (Preview) you might be a little, redneck university if..... your Public Relations Department refers to a chartered bus trip to the Wyndham New Orleans Bowl as a "once in a lifetime opportunity".... your President was named Paint & Coatings Magazine "Man of the Year".... your administration says...	Jeff Foxworthy	1	350	Dec 16, 2004 by kicker
	little, redneck university (Part IV) (Preview) you might be a little, redneck university if.... your central administration unit even owns (not to mention plans to use) classroom space allocation software.... the newspaper headline on your latest basketball victory reads "Big Win Over NAIA Opponent".... The first question from&nbs...	Jeff Foxworthy	0	301	Dec 16, 2004 by Jeff Foxworthy
	little, redneck university (Part II) (Preview) you might be a little, redneck university if ...... your marquee academic program is in plastics.... your women's basketball coach's last name is "Lee-McNelis," yet your President insists on calling her "McNelis" in public forums.... you pay the person you recently hired to fix your SACS p...	Jeff Foxworthy	4	519	Dec 16, 2004 by Donor's matter, too
	HOT OFF THE PRESS: HA LATE NIGHT THAMES UPDATE (Preview) December 15, 2004 9:27 PM Thames scheduled for morning College Board appearance USM president scheduled to meet with SACS officials later Thursday; check here for meeting	Nightowl	1	401	Dec 16, 2004 by Nightowl
	You know you're at the wrong university if . . . . (Preview) You know you've at the wrong university if . . . . . 1. The university's snack bar designates Tuesdays as "Ladies Night." 2. You enter the university bookstore and find shotgun racks in lieu of convenience lockers to use while shopping. 3. The postmast...	Bubba Foxworthy	0	307	Dec 15, 2004 by Bubba Foxworthy
	Today's IHL Board Meeting (Preview) From the H'burg American: Board meeting The state College Board will meet at 1:30 p.m. today in the ninth-floor board room of the Institutions of Higher Learning building, 3825 Ridgewood Road, Jackson. University of Southern Mississippi President Shelby Thames will address quest...	Angeline	4	535	Dec 15, 2004 by In the News
	No Confidence? Once More? (Preview) Today, Tuesday 14 December, several faculty senators raised the possibility of another no confidence vote on SJT. What does the board think? I doubt that anyone here can really be said to have confidence in Thames, but, as a tactic, would a no confidence vote be fruitful? Why? Wh...	Will Watson	18	651	Dec 15, 2004 by foot soldier
	I have set up a new email addy (Preview) Would like to hear from some of my old Fire Shelby friends who used to email me. I promise it's me. Truth, if you would email me, I will verify that it's me, Fire Shelby. FireShelby@gmail.com	FireShelby	2	432	Dec 15, 2004 by truth4usm/AH
	MARCH ON THE DOME!! (Preview) Powerful words are being written among us on this board in response the most recent fiasco under Thames. But these words are inaudible, invisible to anyone who does not read this board. Isn't it high time for visible, audible ACTION? Or would you rather wait until after USM has lost its accreditation...	Left (formerly Leaving Soon)	5	625	Dec 15, 2004 by Friendly Advice
	AAUP-USM position statement (Preview) Friends, The AAUP executive committee met yesterday evening and drafted the following position statement regarding SACS probation for USM. I hope it is posted on our website soon. As every ball team needs a good coach, and every orchestra a good conductor, the team of individuals who are working...	Amy Young	7	5017	Dec 15, 2004 by interested bystander
	12 Days of Christmas at USM (Preview) On the first day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me a grocery store designed for Nursing On the second day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me Two lawyers leaping And a grocery store designed for Nursing On the third day of Christmas My Shelboo gave to me Three Kentu...	Delta Dawn	5	423	Dec 15, 2004 by blind justice
	Second update on Liberty and Power (Preview) I wanted to make sure that Myron Henry's comments--and the mystification surrounding Thames' failure to show at the Board meeting--got prompt coverage. See http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9067.html Robert Campbell	Robert Campbell	0	249	Dec 15, 2004 by Robert Campbell
	Thames meets with Board Updates (Preview) At the H'burg American: Schedule unclear for Thames' College Board appearance By Kevin Walters Session with Southern Miss leader on school's probation status will likely be handled in executive session; check Web site for updates throughout the day. This story will be updated througho...	Angeline	17	726	Dec 15, 2004 by Sunday Comics
	Liberty and Power correction on Hamilton (Preview) I've posted some corrections about the hiring of Joy Hamilton on Liberty and Power: http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9062.html Thanks to everyone who provided information about Hamilton's background and straightened out my misapprehensions on this one. Today's blog entry also links to t...	Robert Campbell	9	359	Dec 15, 2004 by Shock & Awe
	Ex-provost PO'd (Preview) http://hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/NEWS01/412150316/1002	Angeline	10	572	Dec 15, 2004 by Austin Eagle
	HA: Newton to visit Shelby (Preview) Oh, those crafty headline writers at the HA. In the "daily briefings" section on the front page of today's print version, the headline opposite the "4-year gap" SACS story is "Newton to visit Shelby." Upon closer examination, it seems that Mr. Las Vegas, Wayne Newton, will perform for troops...	Googler	6	486	Dec 15, 2004 by Mal
	Jack "Hack" Hanbury takes up for Xmas? (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/OPINION03/412150314/1014/OPINION	truth4usm/AH	17	567	Dec 15, 2004 by Incredulous
	Email from CIO re: IBM (Preview) From the USM email listserv: IBM recent announcement and impact on the Global Knowledge Initiative: This week IBM announced an agreement with Lenovo under which Lenovo will acquire IBM's Personal Computing Division and create a powerful new global leader in the PC industry. I realize ev...	truth4usm/AH	1	387	Dec 15, 2004 by Computer Illiterate
	Very Important--Strike While the Iron is HOT! (Preview) Okay, this is what we've been waiting for everyone. We need to start writing letters to the editors, letters to College Board members, letters to the Alumni Association, etc. letting everyone know that this is the LAST STRAW when it comes to Papa Shelboo's administration. Letters fro...	truth4usm/AH	27	1090	Dec 15, 2004 by kick
	Nom d'Aplomb Award, Dec 6-12 (Preview) To echo that other committee's sentiments, it has truly been an exceptional week. In fact, our committee held a Behind the Scenes meeting Under the Jellicle Moon to formally register exception to what has happened to our university, our Dearly Beloved One, this week under the direction of that Nitw...	Miss Information	12	506	Dec 15, 2004 by BOGUS Boolean Logic Department
	Gulf Coast Incident (Preview) What is the situation with this problem? (http://www.aaup-usm.org/)	COALer	3	488	Dec 15, 2004 by Will Watson
	$ figure (Preview) This is the first time I've seen this message board in months, but returned after hearing about the latest, which is horribly sad news. Excuse me if this has been addressed, but has anyone pointed out that between the $500,000 to clean up the SACS mess and the S/G thing, Shelby has cost the university ov...	Mandy Stringer	13	606	Dec 15, 2004 by already gone
	you might be a little, redneck university if . . . (Preview) all your VP-level administrators refer to your President as "Boss..." your Physical Plant's warehouses are stocked full of employee time (punch) clocks, ready for installation at a moment's notice... your President's residence is a multi-family dwelling, housing both he/his family and t...	Jeff Foxworthy	3	524	Dec 15, 2004 by truth4usm/AH
	Blame the Provost? (Preview) Wasn't Jay Grimes the original Provost in Hattiesburg when the SACS problems started? Where does he fit in the mix. His public statements don't seem to inspire great confidence.	Vexed	2	333	Dec 15, 2004 by Double or nothing provosts
	"Branding" campaign - students pay (Preview) Have any of you heard that the students in the famous (and one-of-a-kind) doctoral program in International Development will have a surcharge of $250/hr (new students) or $85/hr (continuing students) to pay for a branding campaign for the degree program? So if you're a new student taking 10 hours,...	Cattleman	3	396	Dec 15, 2004 by Rowdy Yates
	HA: USM hires Director of Assessment (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/NEWS01/41214001/1002Exline said in a prepared statement that the position was posted and several candidates interviewed in November....	truth4usm/AH	18	727	Dec 15, 2004 by The Shadow
	HA: 4 yr gap "vexing" (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041213/OPINION01/412130323/1014/OPINION	Advocate	20	911	Dec 15, 2004 by Cub reporter
	HA: 12/14 letters to the editor (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...	truth4usm/AH	15	681	Dec 15, 2004 by John Conlee (not really)
	HA: Missing explanation might be found! (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041214/NEWS01/412140302/1002	truth4usm/AH	7	519	Dec 14, 2004 by consquences
	I sell the morning paper, sir (Preview) I usually enjoy reading Eric Strinfellow's column in the Clarion-Ledger. This mornning's column is quite disappointing. It comes across as being optimisticaly uninformed.	jimmy brown	14	698	Dec 14, 2004 by sunshine
	Update in Liberty and Power (Preview) Not a big increment this time, just an attempt to move the story along. http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9058.html Robert Campbell	Robert Campbell	0	237	Dec 14, 2004 by Robert Campbell
	SACS: One policy, of many. (Preview) See: http://www.sacscoc.org/ for all policies and procedures. One policy example below: http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/integrity.pdf Commission on Colleges Southern Association of Colleges and Schools 1866 Southern Lane Decatur, Georgia 30033-4097 INTEGRITY AN...	FYI	1	381	Dec 14, 2004 by Fonda Fan
	Graduation (Preview) Does anyone know who will speak @ graduation? I really don't think I could sit through a speech by Barbour or Hewes!! Is there anything "special" planned for graduation?	Last Tier	3	337	Dec 14, 2004 by Arnold
	What's in the media about the USM debacle? (Preview) Posters who keep up with the continuously changing and new features of Google should ignore this post. Others, not aware of this feature, but who wish to keep up with what the print media and the web is saying about the USM debacle, might find Google's "ALERT" feature useful. The ALERT...	Googler's Little Helper	2	358	Dec 14, 2004 by Google's Little Helper
	SACS actions at their december meeting (Preview) folks--here's a link to the actions SACS took at its most recent meeting: http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/1204cract.pdf	stinky cheese man	3	452	Dec 14, 2004 by Robert Campbell
	At least our PR isn't THIS bad :-) (Preview) College Criticized for Recruiting Postcard AP - Dec. 14, 2004 CRETE, Neb. - A private college is raising eyebrows with a recruiting postcard that shows a man surrounded by women and says students have the opportunity to "play the field." Doane College sent the cartoon...	Fire Shelby	0	324	Dec 14, 2004 by Fire Shelby
	University Assessment Committee? (Preview) I just found this site on the USM website: Office of Institutional Effectiveness Scroll down a ways and you find a link to the Univeristy Assessment Committee and its current members. There is also a link to the committee's constitution. (A committee with a constitution? Okay, but that's not my po...	ram	21	689	Dec 14, 2004 by Amy Young
	Big Differences between Auburn and USM (Preview) Auburn is about 60 years older than USM. Auburn has over 20,000 students, while USM (if truth be told) has less than 15,000 students. Auburn is one of the Top 50 Public Universities in the USA and resides in Tier 2 overall, USM recently moved down the scale from Tier 3 to Tier 4. Auburn has historic...	U.S. News & World Report	2	444	Dec 14, 2004 by glumalum
	Does Thames have all his faculties? (Preview) Does Thames have it all together? Is his health up to the pressures of the job? The guy looks like a walking heart attack or stroke victim, and his recent claims about not knowing of any problems with SACS make one wonder: Is he all there? Has anyone had a direct dealing with him lately?	Not an M.D.	1	356	Dec 14, 2004 by Cyber Doc
	Dec. 16 (Preview) That's the day of the meeting. That's the day SHELBY NEEDS TO BE FIRED!~!!!!! No more chances. SACS ought to be the final straw.	Buh by, Shellgame	7	513	Dec 14, 2004 by Emma
	Liberty and Power on Hobson's Choice (Preview) Here's the latest roundup in Liberty and Power, with some thoughts about "Hobson's choice." http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/9033.html Robert Campbell	Robert Campbell	2	333	Dec 14, 2004 by USM Sympathizer
	HA poll: Do you have confidence in SFT? (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=OPINION	truth4usm/AH	4	550	Dec 14, 2004 by USM Sympathizer
	Time to revive the petition (Preview) http://www.petitiononline.com/usmtruth/petition.html	huh?	2	286	Dec 14, 2004 by USM Sympathizer
	report from blogland (Preview) The blogosphere is heating up again. You'll want to bookmark these sites, if you haven't already. http://blog.lordsutch.com/ Dec. 8, 2004 Double not-so-secret probation The fun in Hattiesburg never ends; the Hattiesburg American reports that Southern Miss w...	info	1	355	Dec 14, 2004 by Cold and Lonely
	HA: No more summer graduation (Preview) http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041213/NEWS01/41213004	truth4usm/AH	1	308	Dec 14, 2004 by Penny Pincher
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