Bud Ginn - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 5, 2006

RE: Bud Ginn

Date: Jan 5, 2006

The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming wrote:

death of a department wrote:
Save us...save us....bring us back to our past....The scholars and principled faculty members of this university need to step forth and speak out for integrity and academic excellence. We are certainly lacking it in ELR.
Maybe NCATE will save you....or something.

Date: Jan 5, 2006

Ncate 101 wrote:

The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming wrote:
death of a department wrote:
Save us...save us....bring us back to our past....The scholars and principled faculty members of this university need to step forth and speak out for integrity and academic excellence. We are certainly lacking it in ELR.
Maybe NCATE will save you....or something.

Has anyone at USM read the standards? Ok, do they understand what they are reading?

Date: Jan 5, 2006

I just noticed that this "Bud Ginn" thread is among the most popular threads on the board, based on posts (182) and views (1812). Congratulations Coastliner (for starting it) and Bud (for supplying the primer)!

Date: Jan 5, 2006

death of a department wrote: where have all the good guys and gals gone? Save us...save us....bring us back to our past....it is certainly better than the present. The scholars and principled faculty members of this university need to step forth and speak out for integrity and academic excellence.

I do not wish to appear unkind, child, but do you have wax in your ears? The scholars and principled faculty members to whom you are pleading for help have been working to save this place for the past three years. The local chapter of the American Association of University Professors, as well as the Faculty Senate, has taken the lead in many of those efforts. Careers have been risked. Some have been sacrificed. A ship can have lifeboats, but if the passengers do not avail themselves of those lifeboats the ship will go down and the passengers will find themselves in the water without so much as a paddle. The efforts of the AAUP, the Faculty Senate, and others, have been well documented on this message board and on the AAUP website. I need not repeat them here. Git on board, child, before the ship sinks. A good start might be participating in AAUP. Have you joined yet? Even if you decide not to join, attend the meetings. And by all means read the minutes of the Faculty Senate. You'll see how scholars and principled faculty are speaking out on a daily basis for integrity and academic excellence.

Date: Jan 5, 2006

One of the major problems with the ELR program is that Richard is left as one of the major voices. Remember his infamous letter to the HA last summer?Pitiful. This program is a sad one to behold right now. No offense to those who have joined it recently, but couldn't those who have recently joined it had better offers or prospects than the ones from this department? If you bought into their line of P.R. -- well, you're reaping what you've now sowed.

Date: Jan 5, 2006

Left the Kazelski Depot wrote:

couldn't those who have recently joined it had better offers or prospects than the ones from this department?

Evidently not. A department comprised of such a paucity of senior faculty members,as well a large inbred (USM degrees) component, must be struggling in its recruiting efforts to get experienced senior faculty to serve in essential leadership roles. I'm afraid we've been found out.

Date: Jan 6, 2006

Left the Kazelski Depot wrote:

One of the major problems with the ELR program is that Richard is left as one of the major voices. Remember his infamous letter to the HA last summer?Pitiful. This program is a sad one to behold right now. No offense to those who have joined it recently, but couldn't those who have recently joined it had better offers or prospects than the ones from this department? If you bought into their line of P.R. -- well, you're reaping what you've now sowed.

Don't ever think that Richard K. is one of our major voices. He never has been and never will be. There are still a few of us left that would like to see us regain our esteemed position that we held in the past. Things that have happened in the last three of four years, the leadership that we have had, and the lack of accountability has made it difficult for the few of us that are left that want academic excellence.

It started when Art Southerland left as our chair. We had a very inexperienced person, Ric Keaster, follow as chair. He was way behind the curve.

Afterwards, we had the coup from in the dome. Bud, with his influence with SFT, named our Dean, WP, and our department chair. He could control both with his influence in the dome.

Doctoral degrees, that was no problem. Just knowing Ginn and being in his good favor after SFT came in was good enough. Look at what he has done since 2002.

As far as what others have done, a couple of us realize that a good fight has been fought by the AAUP and the FS. There is no doubt in our mind that these groups have been active in their own ways. We know that our situation is unique in a way. It is at the departmental level. We have things going on that need oversight. Does anyone want to take a real look at us in ELR? Some of us would welcome it. All of us did not sow what we are reaping. Or, are we really reaping anything?

If we could bring back, Sandra Gupton, Art Sotherland, E.H. Bedenbaugh, Johnny Purvis, and others of this caliber we would not have things going on like the degree producing tatics of Guin. These people would not allow a person to hijack the department.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

ELR Connection II wrote:

Don't ever think that Richard K. is one of our major voices. He never has been and never will be. There are still a few of us left that would like to see us regain our esteemed position that we held in the past. Things that have happened in the last three of four years, the leadership that we have had, and the lack of accountability has made it difficult for the few of us that are left that want academic excellence. It started when Art Southerland left as our chair. We had a very inexperienced person, Ric Keaster, follow as chair. He was way behind the curve. Afterwards, we had the coup from in the dome. Bud, with his influence with SFT, named our Dean, WP, and our department chair. He could control both with his influence in the dome. Doctoral degrees, that was no problem. Just knowing Ginn and being in his good favor after SFT came in was good enough. Look at what he has done since 2002. As far as what others have done, a couple of us realize that a good fight has been fought by the AAUP and the FS. There is no doubt in our mind that these groups have been active in their own ways. We know that our situation is unique in a way. It is at the departmental level. We have things going on that need oversight. Does anyone want to take a real look at us in ELR? Some of us would welcome it. All of us did not sow what we are reaping. Or, are we really reaping anything? If we could bring back, Sandra Gupton, Art Sotherland, E.H. Bedenbaugh, Johnny Purvis, and others of this caliber we would not have things going on like the degree producing tatics of Guin. These people would not allow a person to hijack the department.

ELR I and II. There are a a few good and repectable people left in your department (John R and others). And some of the new people seem very solid. And, things may change quite a bit (or not) in the next year or so in a way that could be beneficial for your department.

It's a shame how inappropriate influences and demands outside the regular and legitimate academic chain of command and processes have shaped your department in the past 2 or 3 years. A couple of us call this "Bubba Tax." ELR is a good example, and a microcosm, of how the university has been managed in recent years, including the payment of Bubba Taxes. Sad, sad, sad.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Mitch wrote:

A couple of us call this "Bubba Tax.

In the large urban areas of the Northeast they're called "Godfadda taxes." Same play, just different actors.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Mitch wrote:

The Ed Admin program is doing some smart moves (e.g., moving toward well-defined and separate EdD and PhD tracks)

I noticed the listing (upthread) of dissertations directed by Ginn are all PhDs. Are these works really adding to the knowledge base of the field, as PhD research should, or are these works really more appropriate to the EdD? Ginn himself holds an EdD from McNeese State. Also, he is listed in the USM Bulletin as "Professor of ELR." How can he be a full professor if his positions at USM have all been administrative? Was he ever in a tenure-track position?

Date: Jan 7, 2006

ELR Connection wrote:

Full Professional Administrator wrote:

stephen judd wrote:

ELR Connection wrote: Bud has served as a VP for our institution, Dean of CE, and a longtime graduate faculty member in ELR. This was before his "retirement".
Thanks ELR Connection. Sounds qualified on paper.

A quick ERIC search shows that Dr. Ginn's 30 year professorial career is quite undistinguished (this is an understatement). ELR-Connection-Can you explain how he earned tenure, much less the rank of Full Professor and doctoral dissertation directorship status, with this record of scholarship? (He was director of a dissertation listed on your most recent graduation program, so he must still be an active member of your department.) Is this scholarly track record typical for your ELR department at USM? Is it typical for full professors in your discipline at other research institutions? Is it typical for other academic VPs and Deans?
Times were very different back in the days when Bud Ginn earned tenure. It was in the McCain era. Most everyone that served seven years on the the faculty was awarded tenure at that point.

Bud retired from his vice president's position around 2000 or 2001. At that time he held a rank of Associate Professor in the ELR Department. If he has been promosed to Full Professor after his retirement, someone else needs to let us all know how that has been accomplished.

The ELR Deparment has has some very distinguished faculty members in the past. There have been retirements and persons moving to other institutions. I don't think anyone presently associated with the department can say that it is as strong as it was in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. When you lose faculty members like Gupton, Bedenbaugh, Southerland, Anderson, Leonard, Purivs, Knight, and numerous others, it is hard to maintain the status the department had achieved. If was once one of the stronger Ed. Admin. departments in the South and the best in the state.

Ginn was not initially a faculty member in ELR. He worked in the old Foundatins Department under Conrad Welker supervising Student Teachers.

He has never been full-time in the ELR department because he held numerous adminstrative positions in the Lucas, Fleming, and Thames.

I am sure there must be someone, somewhere, that knows exactly what his present relationship with ELR is. It may be Bud. There may not be anyone else that knows.

Guin, now listed as a full professor. How did this happen? Maybe he got production points on all those PhD's. Seriously, if this promotion to full professor has happened, can somebody please explain it.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

From the 2005-2006 USM Graduate Bulletin:

GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President Emeritus for Administrative Affairs and Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University.

http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2005/graduate/pdfs/Administration_and_Faculty.pdf

Date: Jan 7, 2006

THE GREAT CORNHOLIO

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Googler wrote:

From the 2005-2006 USM Graduate Bulletin:
GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President Emeritus for Administrative Affairs and Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University.
http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2005/graduate/pdfs/Administration_and_Faculty.pdf

It has been documented that CNG if a full professor. How it came about is still the question.

In some ways this could be like the AD case. If anyone questions the legitimacy of a SFT loyalist and crony, you could be locked out of your office or be seeking employment elsewhere. Be careful where you tread.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Googler wrote:

From the 2005-2006 USM Graduate Bulletin: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President Emeritus for Administrative Affairs and Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University. http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2005/graduate/pdfs/Administration_and_Faculty.pdf

From the 2001-2002 USM Graduate Bulletin: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs Emeritus and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southernississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University. http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2001/graduate/faculty_311-342.pdf (This Bulletin is from the academic year prior to the Thames presidency.)

2002-2003: *GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs Emeritus and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University. http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2002/graduate/pdfs/faculty_319-346.pdf (The * denotes Associate Graduate Faculty status.)

2003-2004: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs Emeritus and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University. http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2003/graduate/pdfs/facu.pdf

2004-2005: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs Emeritus and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. Ed.D., McNeese State University. http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2004/graduate/pdfs/Administration_and_Faculty.pdf (This Bulletin lists only the terminal degree for all faculty--probably an effort to reduce the number of printed pages.)

Based on the Bulletin listings, the promotion to full professor occurred in 2005.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Then it must have been announced in June - isn't that when the IHL releases those kinds of things? Who sat in on the process? Full professors in Ed and Psych? The UAC? The Provost? the President? Who is accountable????

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Googler wrote:

Based on the Bulletin listings, the promotion to full professor occurred in 2005.

Or after June 9, 2004 (based on the date of the 2004-2005 Bulletin pdf).

Date: Jan 7, 2006

ELR Connection wrote:

Googler wrote:

http://www.usm.edu/registrar/catalogs2005/graduate/pdfs/Administration_and_Faculty.pdf
If anyone questions the legitimacy of a SFT loyalist and crony, you could be locked out of your office or be seeking employment elsewhere. Be careful where you tread.

I thought almost everyone was seeking employment elsewhere.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

So . . . how did Ginn become a full professor without the proper channels, or did they occur. This should be a matter of record.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Emma wrote:

So . . . how did Ginn become a full professor without the proper channels, or did they occur. This should be a matter of record.

How does anyone become a full professor at Southern Miss?

Do we really want to go there?

Isn't it enough that it is in the handbook?

Who has time to read it?

Aren't there better things that we could be doing with our time?

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Miss Manners wrote:

Emma wrote: So . . . how did Ginn become a full professor without the proper channels, or did they occur. This should be a matter of record. How does anyone become a full professor at Southern Miss? Do we really want to go there? Isn't it enough that it is in the handbook? Who has time to read it? Aren't there better things that we could be doing with our time?

Nope, Miss Manners - rules ought to apply to everyone, and I refuse to think that there are "better things that we could be doing with our time." Sounds very dictatorial to me - And, if you're being sarcastic - thanks.

NO QUARTER

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Given the number of times that the USM administration has tried to overlook or even rewrite the handbook, not to mention the number of trolls that have tried to disrupt this thread, the issue of how one might have become a full professor is indeed timely and important.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Reality Check wrote:

Given the number of times that the USM administration has tried to overlook or even rewrite the handbook, not to mention the number of trolls that have tried to disrupt this thread, the issue of how one might have become a full professor is indeed timely and important.

Yep. It was the real issue about Angie Godwin Dvorak--that and the fact she was hired without any search.

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Reality Check wrote:

Given the number of times that the USM administration has tried to overlook or even rewrite the handbook, not to mention the number of trolls that have tried to disrupt this thread, the issue of how one might have become a full professor is indeed timely and important.

and to think of all the hoops that many of us have had to do to get promoted....what does this mean?

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Googler wrote:

Based on the Bulletin listings, the promotion to full professor occurred in 2005.

Tell me, ladies, can someone holding emeritus status be promoted?

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Do you suppose it could be an error in the new bulletin? Is that the only source for the rank, or does it appear somewhere else?

Date: Jan 7, 2006

Little old lady wrote:

Do you suppose it could be an error in the new bulletin? Is that the only source for the rank, or does it appear somewhere else?

Maybe Googler or someone will access the IHL minutes which record instances when Emeritus status is bestowed.

Date: Jan 8, 2006

Official Record wrote:

Little old lady wrote: Do you suppose it could be an error in the new bulletin? Is that the only source for the rank, or does it appear somewhere else? Maybe Googler or someone will access the IHL minutes which record instances when Emeritus status is bestowed.

Little old lady--I am fairly certain the faculty listings for the Bulletin are updated each year by the Provost's Office. Error or intentional, it appears someone authorized the removal of the word "associate" from Ginn's listing. In this age of word processing and other technology, these pages would not be created from scratch each year, just updated.

Official Record--I have done a very quick scan of the board minutes via the IHL website. The minutes do list the approval of emerita/emeritus status by institution, but I did not see Ginn's name listed on any of the minutes I reviewed. Someone else may want to take a look: http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&cof=AWFID:0de4ec34a2522a76%3BBGC:%23FFFFFF%3BT:%23000000%3BLC:%230000CC%3BVLC:%230000CC%3BALC:%230000CC%3BGALT:%23008000%3BGFNT:%23000000%3BGIMP:%23000000%3BDIV:%230000CC%3BLBGC:%23FFFFFF%3BAH:center%3BS:http://www.ihl.state.ms.us%3B&domains=ihl.state.ms.us&sitesearch=ihl.state.ms.us&q=%22emeritus%22&spell=1

In the 2000-2001 Bulletin, Ginn does not have emeritus status: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University.

The emeritus status first appeared in the 2001-2002 Bulletin: GINN, CLYDE NEULAN, Vice President for Administrative Affairs Emeritus and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Research. B.S., M.Ed., The University of Southern Mississippi; Ed.D., McNeese State University.

Based on the information in the Bulletin (updated each year by the Provost's Office), Ginn was awarded emeritus status sometime between the publication of the 2000-2001 and 2001-2002 Bulletins, and promoted to full professor sometime between the publication of the 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 Bulletins.

Luydia Pinkham's Vegetable Compound, in answer to your question upthread--it does appear that someone holding emeritus status has been promoted.

Date: Jan 8, 2006

Googler wrote:

Luydia Pinkham's Vegetable Compound, in answer to your question upthread--it does appear that someone holding emeritus status has been promoted.

Oh My. I'm having hot flashes all over again.