Next PC Meeting - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Next PC Meeting

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Forgive me for asking, but who is Ray Folse?

Sorry if this has already been covered...........

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"Forgive me for asking, but who is Ray Folse?
Sorry if this has already been covered..........."

He is a Faculty Senator representative on the PC, along with Myron Henry.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Thanks Reporter!

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"The following was on the Faculty Senate listserv today. Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:11:09 -0500 From: Ray Folse To: Facsen@usm.edu Reply-to: facsen@usm.edu Subject: [Facsen] Fwd: Re: [PresidentsCouncil] (no subject) >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:10:02 -0500 >To: presidentscouncil@usm.edu >From: Ray Folse >Subject: Re: [PresidentsCouncil] (no subject) > >Colleagues, >I believe the letter below, that appeared in Saturday's Hattiesburg >American" needs to be discussed. This is an embarrassment to the University. > >Ray > >>Hattiesburg American >> >>USM official distorts facts ...."

Let me make sure I understand this...the fact that Lisa Mader distorted the facts is what's embarrassing, right?

Just checking...

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Truth, isn't Ray in Physics???

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"
Let me make sure I understand this...the fact that Lisa Mader distorted the facts is what's embarrassing, right?
Just checking..."

Good question. Could the Hattiesburg American have quoted her out of context? Sounds like a good defense to me. Doesn't that sound reasonable to you?

Or maybe HA just left out the words "A&M" and "Central" in her quote concerning Alabama and Michigan.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Folse is a good guy possibly corrupted by a prevailing system.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Truth, isn't Ray in Physics???"

A check of the USM directory confirms that, indeed, he is a Professor of Physics.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"
Let me make sure I understand this...the fact that Lisa Mader distorted the facts is what's embarrassing, right?
Just checking..."

Dunno. Could be Ms. Zimmerman's letter is what's embarrassing. I guess we'll have to wait until the PC meets to know for sure.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: student Exit 13
"Folse is a good guy possibly corrupted by a prevailing system."

There is nothing corrupt about Ray -- he is a straight shooter with very strong convictions. He was on the senate last year (yes, the one that had that 40-0 vote). I'd put him in the category of someone who very doggedy pursues the truth and believes very strongly in shared governance. That he and Myron both sit on the PUC is excellent for the Senate.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

Thanks for the clarification. I always have heard that that the Physics and Chemistry Dept. are the world of the brightest and best of USM. Wish that those in Educ and Psych could do a better job. oh well, you get what you and your daddy can pay for.

Date: Aug 28, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"There is nothing corrupt about Ray -- he is a straight shooter with very strong convictions. He was on the senate last year (yes, the one that had that 40-0 vote). I'd put him in the category of someone who very doggedy pursues the truth and believes very strongly in shared governance. That he and Myron both sit on the PUC is excellent for the Senate. "

Amen, brother.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: student Exit 13
"Thanks for the clarification. I always have heard that that the Physics and Chemistry Dept. are the world of the brightest and best of USM. Wish that those in Educ and Psych could do a better job. oh well, you get what you and your daddy can pay for."

Are you implying that Tammy Greer, the EPY rep on the PUC, is in some way corrupt? Or the people in LIS? PSY? BTE? CFS? Your type of post--the type that paints a unit with a broad stroke is ill-conceived and unwaranted. At the worst, it is plain sleaze. Knock it off.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

I could not agree more with Wash's response to Student Exit 13; comments like that are unnecessary; have your data before making such statements. There are many on the campus who do great work, who have devoted their lives to their students and campus colleagues, and who do not view their positions as jobs, but rather vocations. Student Exit 13, please be advised that such broad statements serve no purpose.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

From what I hear, at PUC meeting Tammy Greer, Ray Folse and Myron Henry seem to provide a one-two punch on issues. Sometimes it seems like one sets the other up by asking the right question at the right time. I remember Greer was the person that demanded (asked?) Rush Willus for faculty data for ten years so the faculty departure trend could be correctly analyzed.

Now that the PUC has elected reps, the issues discussed are becoming much more sensitive, although who sets the agenda may still be in contention.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

Tammy Greer is a great person - has lots of integrity, a good person to be around.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"Tammy Greer is a great person - has lots of integrity, a good person to be around."

As one of Tammy's former colleagues, educator, I second your remarks. Tammy Greer is everything you said - and more. She would be a marvelous "fit" at any of the 1st tier universities with which I have been affiliated.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wash
"I believe that most reps are still the one's that were appointed, including Tammy. When the PC was formed, there were many valid concerns about whether or not it would be useful for advancing the goals of faculty and staff. Sadly, along the way the individual reps were largely tarred and feathered on this site as toadies of SFT (negative comments still reside on the front page of this website). Tammy (and other members) rose above this nonsense, and went in and did what they were asked to do. At least in our college, they were asked to be fierce advocates for faculty and staff (as this has evolved, student involvement seems to have faded to the background), speak their minds, and not be beholden to any administrator. They have held the President's feet to the fire when necessary (the advice he gets from the PC is far better than the advice he receives from some of his counselors in the Dome). The addition of FS reps served to strengthen the group's legitimacy and added more breadth of experinece. I am not to concerned about agenda-setting (this group is not shy about about inserting their own agenda items when necessary). My concern is whether the President will continue to listen closely to this group (and the FS and SC and others), even when it is uncomfortable to do so or when the items brought to bear are not at the top of his to-do list. More important, I hope that he follows the advice offered. Overall, I would give the members of the PC a B+ for effort and B- for results (FG made me a committed opponent of grade inflation, so these reflect above average ratings). A rough start before they found their sea legs, but a solid effort to date. "

Wash, I'd agree. I think the fear early on was that the Presdient would use the PUC in the same way he's using the VV -- to counteract the insurgency under morre controlled conditions. That seems not to be the case -- and I think that the faculty on the PUC (both orginal appointed ones and the new folks) have aquitted themselves well. Despite my discomfort with the administration and its past actions, it is still necessary to find places to talk -- and I think the PUC has come to augment the faculty voice as expressed through its representative bodies rather than to replace them. I hope that is true -- as we get further into the school year we will see.

And I served with Tammy and Bobby Middlebrooks on the FAR committee (a joint committee of faculty senate appointees and the administration in which the work WAS hijacked, as far as I am concerned). Tammy is smart, observant, pays attention to the details and has plenty of integrity to boot. Both Bobby and Tammy were, in their own ways, faculty voices whose concern for fairness and process were very present during that committee's work.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

But who SERIOUSLY believes that SFT will continue to listen to his own formed PUC when they start to truly question his motives and actions? With all due respect to those who continue to try to represent what was a once and future institution, what real good can any of these members achieve except join the Hall of Fame targets that used to grace the campus.

(and being one of those targets - I'll add) NO QUARTER.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"But who SERIOUSLY believes that SFT will continue to listen to his own formed PUC when they start to truly question his motives and actions? With all due respect to those who continue to try to represent what was a once and future institution, what real good can any of these members achieve except join the Hall of Fame targets that used to grace the campus.
(and being one of those targets - I'll add) NO QUARTER."

Well, at least this week's meeting may be interesting.
I would love to hear SFT's reply when the PC ask him about the quote,

"We are proud to be ranked among schools like Alabama and Michigan in the U.S. News and World Report ranking," Southern Miss spokeswoman Lisa Mader said Friday. "

Some questions could be:
Who is the "we" ?
Was a faculty/staff survey held?
Did Lisa forget the "A&M" after Alabama and the "Cenrtral" before Michigan?
Who approved this statement from the UNIVERSITY PR dept.?
etc.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" Well, at least this week's meeting may be interesting. I would love to hear SFT's reply when the PC ask him about the quote, "We are proud to be ranked among schools like Alabama and Michigan in the U.S. News and World Report ranking," Southern Miss spokeswoman Lisa Mader said Friday. " Some questions could be: Who is the "we" ? Was a faculty/staff survey held? Did Lisa forget the "A&M" after Alabama and the "Cenrtral" before Michigan? Who approved this statement from the UNIVERSITY PR dept.? etc. "

As a faculty and low-level administrator (yikes!), there is a more pressing issue on my mind. What the heck is going on with Ms. Woodrick and the Affirmative Action office? I hope the PC brings this up, because this issue is one of great importance to faculty and staff (in my opinion).

Date: Aug 29, 2004

What Wash and Reporter are concerned about are of equal importance. Folks, all we're going to get is spin, and if the PUC members aren't careful - he'll demolish this entity just as he continues to ignore the voices of faculty and students - The Faculty Senate and The Student Printz. Welcome to the jungle.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wash
"As a faculty and low-level administrator (yikes!), there is a more pressing issue on my mind. What the heck is going on with Ms. Woodrick and the Affirmative Action office? I hope the PC brings this up, because this issue is one of great importance to faculty and staff (in my opinion). "

Good questions Wash. I hope the faculty senators who read this board pass all of these questions on to their representatives.

Why don't we start listing questions we would like the PC to put to the president?

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wash
"As a faculty and low-level administrator (yikes!), there is a more pressing issue on my mind. What the heck is going on with Ms. Woodrick and the Affirmative Action office? I hope the PC brings this up, because this issue is one of great importance to faculty and staff (in my opinion). "

I agree, Wash, the Becky Woodrick situation needs to be addressed and I really hope the PC holds his feet to the fire on this.

NO QUARTER!

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"What Wash and Reporter are concerned about are of equal importance. Folks, all we're going to get is spin, and if the PUC members aren't careful - he'll demolish this entity just as he continues to ignore the voices of faculty and students - The Faculty Senate and The Student Printz. Welcome to the jungle."

Actually, from a purely stategic perspective, nothing could be better than for the PUC to go the way of the Senate and the Student Printz. This is a committee, after all, the was created by the administration. There are only so many times the administration can walk away from, ignore, badmouth or disband organized bodies before even the public can't ignore the fact that the problem isn't simply everyone outside the Dome.

Still, since the PUC is with us and there are good people on it . . . we can hope that perhaps those folks can continue to make meaningful points.

It occurs to me that it would be interesting to know under what commission the VV people have been told to act: in other words, what is the purpose of the VV. It will also be interesting to see what happens if and when the admin does something that even one of the students on the VV questions. It is inevitable that the VV will not be able to tiptoe around public events. It is inevitable that some of the students, who are not stupid people, will begin to ask questions of their own. I think this could eventually backfire if the administration doesn't hold to the straight and narrow.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

From what various people who know him have said, Ray Folse meant that Lisa Mader's statements, and no the letter that criticized them, are an embarrassment to the university. (His email is ambiguous as written. Maybe purposely ambiguous, to get the item on the PC's agenda?)

So I'm not questioning the bona fides of some of the representatives to the PUC/PC.

The question nonetheless remains: what are Shelby Thames' promises to that body worth?

Has Thames actually reined in email surveillance, for instance? And will anyone believe him, if he says that he has?

Has the PC gotten the Thames administration to enact any policy changes? By which I mean changes that can be verified?

Robert Campbell

Date: Aug 29, 2004

Sorry, that should be

...and not the letter that criticized them...

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"From what various people who know him have said, Ray Folse meant that Lisa Mader's statements, and no the letter that criticized them, are an embarrassment to the university. (His email is ambiguous as written. Maybe purposely ambiguous, to get the item on the PC's agenda?)
So I'm not questioning the bona fides of some of the representatives to the PUC/PC.
The question nonetheless remains: what are Shelby Thames' promises to that body worth?
Has Thames actually reined in email surveillance, for instance? And will anyone believe him, if he says that he has?
Has the PC gotten the Thames administration to enact any policy changes? By which I mean changes that can be verified?
Robert Campbell"

Robert, If I haven't lost count, there were at least three letters written critical of the Lisa Mader quotation in the HA. All were excellent. I can't believe the Saturday letter was picked out for criticism, but not the others. It has to be the PR statement that will be addressed. There is now rumor that Lisa Mader may attend the next PUC meeting, but that may just be speculation.
I keep saying this looks as if it may be an interesting week.

Date: Aug 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Sorry, that should be ...and not the letter that criticized them..."

Robert -- I think we are in process here so it is hard to determine if some of the ongoing issues (the handbook, the drug policy, the email policy and the FAR among others) are resolved. I say in process because the handbook committee is now meeting; the drug policy committee is close to submitting a draft I believe; we had some movement on a new email policy but I do not believe that it has been circulated for input before going into effect (I'm not sure on this one); and the FAR is something I know the FACSEN wants to take up again.

I think on balance we are seeing some concessions (read "shared governance"). But there are still issues to resolve and new ones loom. I am hearing some disquieting rumors about new procedures for searches that may be instituted, among others.

My take on this is "eternal vigilance . . ." etc. My personal sense is that the struggle is moving away from the zone of public confrontation into the much more complex territory of the bureaucracy of the university. I think in that more complex territry the faculty is fighting with its hand tied behind its back because it does not have all of the information it needs to counteract the administration's moves. I think we will find that we will be told many of the contemplated moves which will further limit or circumvent faculty automomy and undermine shared governance will be for "legal" reasons; organizational efficiency; etc. These are all things that are difficult to disprove if there is not some transparency of information.