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Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"Read closely....they are limiting doctoral students.  They are only adding undergrads, who I'm assuming can be taught by all of those well-paid adjuncts that abound in Hattiesburg </SARCASM>.  "

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truth4usm, I am a very strong advocate of the USM nursing program and I believe it is one into which the USM administration should infuse substantial material and moral support and return it to the status as one of USM's leading programs.  But I am not clear on just why that program is bucking the national trend with regard to undergraduate admissions. A "need" for more nurses is most certainly not a good answer. We "need" doctors, but medical schools are not going to increase their admissions numbers at the expense of reducing the quality of their applicants. That would be too risky in terms of medical training and patient care. I just hope the nursing program here is not increasing their enrollment because of some pressure from above. Information please?

To the best of my knowledge (and I have spoken with some folks in the know), the administration is trying to control the bleeding on this one.  They have seriously wounded one of our best programs by driving away a brilliant dean (Marie Farrell who has a heck of a story to tell is someone will ask--it involves A.Dvorak), abusing its passionate students, mistreating its faculty, and, on top of that, putting it in the middle of the Albertson's fiasco.  The critical nursing shortage in the area and the huge loss of faculty in nursing is a big PR problem......so, let's take in more students. 

I agree with what others have posted up thread, that someone closer to the situation might comment less speculatively... Perhaps our friend "Nursing Prof" can fill us in.

But I do know that there is a cap on the student-teacher ratio in nursing. The cap is set by the state, as well as by NLN. Increasing the number of undergrads by 10 suggests to me that the department has added one full-time faculty member, who could be master's level & still meet accreditation requirements & plans to add another in spring semester. I hope this is true & I hope they are looking for doctoral level faculty to revive their graduate program.

Hattiesburg is a medical mecca for this area. It doesn't make sense for USM not to have a strong nursing program.

Again, I'd love to hear good news about this program from those who are "on the ground" in USM's nursing department.

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Originally posted by: Bedside Manners
"I am not "on the ground" of anything, but I might be able to put some of this into proper perspective. It is my understanding that nursing accepted 60 students last Fall. It is also my understanding that nursing had been scheduled to accept only 40 this year because of faculty losses (e.g., 4 former USM nursing faculty are now at William Carey). I heard that the nursing program was "ordered" ("encouraged?") to raise this number by 10 above the 40. 40+10=50. That number (50) is still below last's years 60. Conclusions: Nursing admissions are down, not up as the Hattiesburg American article suggested.  If my figures or my conclusion is off base, I would greatly appreciate someone correcting me."

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someone should let the HA know about this -- I think they would be interested. They may not ask the most penetrating questions but they do tend to get a little cranky if they think they have been mislead . . . 

It did occur to me today since I have read so much about the atrition of faculty in nursing, to wonder if they can accomodate the students and maintain the quality. It may be that we don't have an accurate picture of the numbers of those teaching in nursing. This is an AAUP issue, however, if nursing is being "encouraged" to do more with less. It is an increbily critical area and I'd sure like to feel (as I am beginning to get to the age at which I think I have a vested interest here) that the nurse helping me has not been shorted on her/his training.

 I can help out a little here.  

USM Nursing

In days past, USM Nursing had the resources and facilities to admit about 60 BSN students per Fall and Spring Semesters.  Sometimes a few more are admitted, as a few do not make it to the second semester. So, that is a historical baseline.

Over the past 3-4 years, Nursing lost faculty lines, and had trouble filling positions due to  people leaving/retirements/hiring freezes. Administrative transition aggravated the situation.

 During that time we dipped down to 40/semester.  Then we recieved significant support from a benefactor for faculty positions and staff support so Nursing could increase student numbers gradually, so I believe we worked up to 65/semester at one point.  Then, external support expired, and to compensate, we went back down to 40 admissions for Fall 2004. 

We have gone back up by 10 BSN students because Dr. Thames, Dr. Fos and Dr. Nugent have recognized the problem, and have worked together to add faculty lines back, and this has allowed significant numbers of clinical instructors (MSN's) to be hired.  We will go up again in Spring by 10 when we get more faculty lines (which have been promised).

A significant number of USM Nursing Instructors are enrolled in the Nursing PhD program at Univ. of Mississippi Med Center, and other Universities.  So, we expect to gain several good doctorally prepared faculty through "growing our own", and will continue to try and attract more doctorally prepared faculty as we can. Our MSN program and PhD programs remain high quality, but we have a large cohort of PhD students..20..that need the attention of the doctoral faculty.  Without more doctoral faculty, and/or graduating more students, we cannot add more PhD students. 

Nursing faculty are cautiously optimistic.  What we need is enough faculty and staff to run things properly, and some administrative stability. 

 

THE TENACITY OF NURSING PROFESSORS

Rest assured, though that USM Nursing NEVER stints on the quality of instruction given to our students.  Yes, we may have to work longer and harder, but our obligations to our students is a sacred trust between the nurse professor and society. 

Doing less than perfect work is against our Code of Ethics, and our professional standards, backed up by accrediation agencies, and State statutes on student-faculty ratios.  We cannot take more than we can adequately educate.  That is why we reduced our admissions to 40 to begin with.

It is unthinkable that any BSN nursing school would allow any nursing student to graduate that is not a safe practitioner, and a scholar.  USM Nursing faculty engage in continuous outcomes measurement and quality control.  Just as we teach our students to do when they care for you.

Third tier does not apply to accredited programs of Nursing... All are top tier.  But, I think things will be better for Nursing now...we will see. 

I just hope this is a trend that will continue for other schools and depts. 

    Gotta stop my 13 hour day now... Gotta be up early tomorrow.  

USM Nurse Prof

 

 

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Originally posted by: USM Nurse Prof
"Nursing faculty are cautiously optimistic.  What we need is enough faculty and staff to run things properly, and some administrative stability."

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Thanks for the info, Nurse Prof. So the capacity is still down from peak but up from what you expected.

The instructional ratio is maintained in clinical, as required. Are most clinical instructors employed as adjuncts or full-time? How many additional clinical instructors have been added? (I presume one to maintain the state-mandated 10:1 clinical ratio. Is that about right?)

Rebuilding the graduate program will be a challenge, though.

"THE TENACITY OF NURSING PROFESSORS"

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I couldn't resist commenting on this... Every nursing student I've ever met can attest to the "tenacity" of their instructors!

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Originally posted by: Curmudgeon
" How many new faculty ("significant numbers") have you hired in the past month to allow this change?"

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Invictus and Curmudgeon, I will count them when I get to work and let you know. (PS the Gulf Coast has also increased it's enrollment from 30 each Fall semester to 40, and added 1-2 faculty).  Invictus has summarized the situation most accurately...Thanks.  

Also, Mary Lou,

I would not say that Nursing Prospered through all of this, quite the reverse. Things were pretty bleak for the last 2 years. NO bed of roses for anyone on campus. It has been a struggle.  All that I am saying is that with the addition of faculty (albeit clinical faculty as opposed to those with doctorates which we really need), and with a new Dean and Assoc. Dean for Nursing, and the potential for some stability, we now feel working and scholarship conditions can be improved.  I am also saying that even throughout the problems, that the quality of our education of Nurses, by necessity cannot be substandard...no matter the cost to us as professors. If we cannot practice safely (ie teach properly)... then we have an obligation to make corrections to our system...ie reduce student numbers.

Gotta try to go back to sleep! I have never been the only one on this board! Too early, I guess. Thanks for caring about Nursing.  

Thanks, Truth

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Originally posted by: Generalissimo P.T. Domesbury
" USM Nurse Prof, From what you wrote I take it that during the past two years your batallion incurred only a temporary scratch or a bite from a swamp mosquito. Not nearly enough for a purple cross or to be sent stateside. USM nursing may very well be, as you said, lst tier. I'm not qualified to make that judgment. But I am qualified to say that accreditation alone does not bestow lst tier status. All accreditation means is that your platoon has passed basic training, can assemble and dissassemble a rifle, and is ready for batle. 1st tier status requires a few 4-star generals, a Special Forces platoon (such as our famous Black & Gold Berets), substantial extramural research funding, and your platoon must publish it's little stethoscope off.  Do not forget that your last white glove inspection was conducted prior to the batallion's reorganization. Things may be diferent now. Remember also that world class never describes itself as world class. It doesn't have to. National peers have already identified them. Generalissino P.T. Domesbury    "

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"You'll have to understand, Generalissimo. Nurse Prof is a fan of Monte
Python's Black Knight. The last two years are only a flesh wound."
 
MASH Unit
 
 
 

 

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Originally posted by: Invictus
"Generalissimo, nursing faculty have to have a certain "attitude" or they wouldn't be nurses. You can call it pride, toughness, tenacity, dedication or whatever. But to use your own analogy, they aren't exactly raw recruits just out of basic training. They are special forces. The accountability levels that are considered normal for nursing would scare a good many professors in other disciplines to consider another occupation. Ask a nursing prof what happens when their NCLEX-RN pass rates fall too low. The closest comparison I can think of is education majors taking the NTE & that's not even close. OK, I'm biased."

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I'm a little puzzled, Invictus. None of what you say relates to what I said in any shape, form, or fashion. I was responding primarily to the statement that any accredited nursing program is a lst tier program. I have no way of knowing this for certain, but I suspect that your support of academic nursing programs and nurses in general may pale when compared with mine. Nurses are underpaid and overworked. I have stated in classes, in faculty meetings, and in discussions at the Hub (and on this board under another pseudonym) that the USM nursing program was likely the toughest academic program on campus - including but not limited to chemistry and mathematics. Nonetheless, I stand by my statement that all nursing programs are not the same (I have taught nurses here and elsewhere): accreditation per se does not make for a lst tier program. In my opinion, the USM nursing program has been treated shabbily. It is unthinkable that anyone would even think twice about putting them in a grocery store down HWY 49. I have seen no postings stronger than mine in support of the USM nursing program. You may not know this, Invictus, but the requirements for acceptance into the USM nursing program exceed those of most (if not all) undergraduate programs at USM. At least that was the case the last time I examined that part of the catalog. If accredited programs in all disciplines were 1st tier or world class then USM would be 1st tier or world class - because virtually every program eligible for accreditation is accredited - what ever the discipline. I gave careful thought as to whether I should respond to your post or ignore it. I probably made the wrong choice, but when I press the SUBMIT POST icon it will be too late to retrive it. So here goes . . . .

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Originally posted by: USM Nurse Prof
" Generalissimo, Point well taken. I went too far in the defense of our commitment to our students.  We have PLENTY of room for improvement.  Thanks for adjusting my attitude a little bit.  Invictus is right...Nurse Profs have that attitude thing goin' on."

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USM Nurse Prof,

I've been waiting for you! I guess we all got a little carried away in our enthusiasm for the profession of nursing. We just expressed that enthusiasm in different ways. You were not wrong in defending your profession's commitment to students. I have witnessed that commitment first hand. You are so fortunate to be in nursing. If I were starting college today I nursing would definitely be my major of choice.

Generalissimo P.T. Domesbury

P.S. Because you were kind enough to reply, I will tell you why I am used such a bizarre handlefor my posting:  The "Generalissimo" is from the preface to Exit 13 (if you have not read that book, get a copy). The P.T. represents either (a) the Confederate General P.T. Beaureguard, or (b) the P.T. Barnum of circus fame ("There's a fool born every minute"), and (3) Domesbury is a take-off on two terms: (a) the cartoon "Doonesbury," and (b) the word "Dome" which we all know and love. Thus, "Domesbury." But I'm sure I'll never get the Nom d'Aplomb Award now, given my brief but impetuous interaction with Invictus.

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Originally posted by: educator
"Gen. P.T. -- you'd get mine if I could vote!!!!!! Great reference to the infamous Exit 13. I agree, if people out there haven't read it - they ought to read it. "

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Educator, my copy of Exit 13 arrived at the USM post office shortly after I arrived at USM. It was in a brown paper wraper on which appeared only my address but not that of the sender. Scared the yahooties out of my when I read it because I had already given up my old job and it was too late to turn back.

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Originally posted by: Generalissino P.T. Domesbury
"But I'm sure I'll never get the Nom d'Aplomb Award now, given my brief but impetuous interaction with Invictus."

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Oh darn! Do I have to erase it from my short list?

I didn't know our interaction was impetuous. I generally don't use smiley emoticons when I am feeling ornery. I was equally guilty of having an itchy finger on the submit button. I apologize if the "so sue me" tag line came off heavy-handed. But I will not apologize for being biased about nursing.

And yes, I'm fully aware that nursing is one of the more selective admissions undergrad programs at USM. It has to be for all the "right" reasons. For students who maybe can't make the more rigorous BSN entry requirements, there are fine 2-year A.D. nursing programs at community colleges. And as USM Nursing Prof has already indicated USM offers a special upper division admissions option for A.D. nursing grads who've passed NCLEX-RN already. This not only is the "right thing to do," but it provides more options for students in a major that is vitally important to each & every one of us in our daily lives.

I do hate the phrase "world class." It's so mushy. It has no substance whatsoever & implies nothing more than blustery rhetoric. I don't want to hear about how great any institution, including my own, is at the moment. I want to hear how great the vision is for the future.

I know some folks think that USM Nursing Prof sounds like a pollyanna. But there is no way to aspire to greatness in the future without developing the right "attitude" today. Before anyone can move in the right direction, they have to be able to visualize themselves as already being there. USM Nursing Prof has the right vision, I think.

And I keep trying to visualize my alma mater with an administration that at least acts like it knows "the right thing to do." It's just hard to keep focussed on it these days...

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Originally posted by: Generalissino P.T. Domesbury
" USM Nurse Prof, I've been waiting for you! I guess we all got a little carried away in our enthusiasm for the profession of nursing. We just expressed that enthusiasm in different ways. You were not wrong in defending your profession's commitment to students. I have witnessed that commitment first hand. You are so fortunate to be in nursing. If I were starting college today I nursing would definitely be my major of choice. Generalissimo P.T. Domesbury P.S. Because you were kind enough to reply, I will tell you why I am used such a bizarre handlefor my posting:  The "Generalissimo" is from the preface to Exit 13 (if you have not read that book, get a copy). The P.T. represents either (a) the Confederate General P.T. Beaureguard, or (b) the P.T. Barnum of circus fame ("There's a fool born every minute"), and (3) Domesbury is a take-off on two terms: (a) the cartoon "Doonesbury," and (b) the word "Dome" which we all know and love. Thus, "Domesbury." But I'm sure I'll never get the Nom d'Aplomb Award now, given my brief but impetuous interaction with Invictus."

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Thanks, Generalissimo....I love your name, now that I understand it's taxonomy.  And now here's a reference from MY copy of Exit 13 (Piliawsky, 1983)

"Prepare to enter Exit 13, an experience which can best be termed 'On Being Sane in Insane Places' ." (p. xvii)  

I assure everyone, I am no Pollyana, but I have recaptured a little hope...that old Provost was a plague upon Nursing. As well as on some other wonderful Depts. 

Party on, Generalissimo.  Dylan on, Invictus. 

Austin Eagle, are you a Son of the Conf?  I am a DAR and DAC. I understand your historical interests in this "Nursing" converstation.