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Originally posted by: Googler
" Don't know, but today's HA print version has a page four wire story titled "Harvard, Princeton share top ranking." The HA inserted the following as the second paragraph: "Southern Miss was listed as a fourth-tier institution of higher learning - along with Jackson State University - in the national news magazine's survey." No spin in this story. Just the facts.  "

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Googler, do you know if the second paragraph insertion was made by a knowledgable HA reporter/editor or was in a press release provided by USM? The answer to that question would tell us much.

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Originally posted by: foot soldier
" Parent, you have every right to be unhappy about this. I might add, however, that it is possible for your child to get a good education at a 4th tier school. It would depend on their major, which profs they encounter, if they take the most demanding courses and if they work hard and show individual initiative. Yes, they would probably be better off at a higher ranked school, but it is possible for them to learn something at places other than Alabama and Michigan."

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foot soldier -

I believe everything you said. Nonetheless, A university should give a parent or prospective student accurate information which might help them make a decision. I doubt the Federal Trade Commission or other regulatory body would allow misleading "spins" on other products.

Parent

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Originally posted by: Parent
"
A university should give a parent or prospective student accurate information which might help them make a decision.. .
Parent"

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Absolutely. Amen. They should not lie. It makes a mockery of all of the values of education.

This is what the faculty have been fighting for, by the way. They want the administration to tell the truth.

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Originally posted by: Curious II
"Googler, do you know if the second paragraph insertion was made by a knowledgable HA reporter/editor or was in a press release provided by USM? The answer to that question would tell us much."

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I don't know. The story byline is "From staff, wire reports," which in my mind implies the insertion did not come from a university press release. The P.M. Update on the HA web site, headlined "USM ranks poorly on college survey," was posted at 4:49 PM, well after the print edition that contained the wire story. The spin that followed did not match the headline.  

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Originally posted by: foot soldier
"

This is really interesting. Isn't Alabama a poor state with many of the same issues that Mississippi has (in spite of its Mercedes-Benz plant)? But it has a tier 1 school. Is Ole Miss tier 1? So . . . how does Alabama do it?"

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Yes, Alabama does have many of the same problems as Mississippi. However, it is comparatively richer--13% higher per capita income in 2002; it is also significantly larger at 4.5 million people, compared to 2.8 million in Mississippi.

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Originally posted by: foot soldier
" This is really interesting. Isn't Alabama a poor state with many of the same issues that Mississippi has (in spite of its Mercedes-Benz plant)? But it has a tier 1 school. Is Ole Miss tier 1? So . . . how does Alabama do it?"

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foot solder, Mississippi is not as poor as it pretends to be. Alabama may have Mercedes-Benz, but Mississippi has Nissan. Mississippi has overtaken Atlantic City in casino revenue and now ranks #2 second only to Las Vegas. Mississippi has the shipbuilding industry on the coast, it still retains some of WorldCom (now MCI) in Clinton, and it was recipient of loads of tobacco settlement money. Mississippi was (and may still be) the leading commercial catfish producer up in the Delta. The chicken processing industry is huge in Mississippi (Miss Goldy is right here at our own back door. I believe you can even smell a couple of others around hattiesburg. That's money coming from those smokestacks, not chicken manure. Did you know that there are more furniture factories in Mississippi than in North Carolina? Most of them are smaller ones, but they are many. I could go on for an entire threads worth about Mississippi's resources. The problem, figuratively, is the plantation system. The man who runs the plantation is the one that has the money. USM is a prime victim. Know why many (but not nearly all) of the nursing homes in Mississippi are so terrible? I have been told that it's because many of Mississippi legislators have or did have some financial interest in some of them and they do not or did not want to pass legislation to clean them up. Another victim of the plantation system. And don't let me forget timber farming. Big business in Mississippi. Ask Roy Klumb. There is no valid reason why Mississippi shouldn't spend as much money on higher education as Louisiana spends on LSU and its public universities or Alabama spends on the University of Alabama, Auburn, and its other public universities. Do not let the plantation owner tell you there is no money for new indoor plumbing because the cotton crop was bad this year.

The article also points out that State and Ole Miss are tier three universities, and that USM's graduate programs were not rated because of a failure to respond to the questionnaire. All in all, the piece is pretty good for the HA. However, it does not mention the USM drop from tier three to tier four.

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Originally posted by: The Shadow
"... USM's graduate programs were not rated because of a failure to respond to the questionnaire. '

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Could this be a result of eliminating the gradaute school and sending the capable Professor Hollingsworth to teach history and psychology?  Excuse me, I forgot he was not qualified to teach history.  How much has gone by the way side because of poor decisions made in  a vacuum?

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Originally posted by: avery
"Could this be a result of eliminating the gradaute school?"

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You're a doctoral university and you eliminated the graduate school? That decision must have taken a great deal of time following serious deliberaions at various levels. Perhaps US News will put you in the proper comparison group next year and you will fare somewhat better in the rankings.

Be grateful the IHL Board is in AL. The average IQ in state goes up 10 points when they leave.

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Originally posted by: Angeline
"So, what's the answer?"

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Angeline:

The answer is an under-educated population in a state that is third world in many ways. It's a vicious cycle. Musgrove had some of the right values to put a stop to the nonsense here, but we now again have a bloated, self-important buffon in the gov's mansion.

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Originally posted by: Blue Collar
"foot solder, Mississippi is not as poor as it pretends to be. . . . I could go on for an entire threads worth about Mississippi's resources. The problem, figuratively, is the plantation system. The man who runs the plantation is the one that has the money. . . . There is no valid reason why Mississippi shouldn't spend as much money on higher education as Louisiana spends on LSU and its public universities or Alabama spends on the University of Alabama, Auburn, and its other public universities. Do not let the plantation owner tell you there is no money for new indoor plumbing because the cotton crop was bad this year. "

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Thanks (sort of ) for these comments. This sickens me. I have been grieving for the entire state, even though I have left. It all comes down to valuing education and caring about social welfare more than one's own pockets. I once heard that Mississippi had the highest rate of giving to charity (which may or may not be true). There must be some good will in the state somewhere, yes?

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Originally posted by: Person of Interest
"IQ Doc, you use the term vicious cycle. I was about to use the term circular. Would you care to extend your answer to USM leadership? USM's problems extend back beyhond two years. Can you put it in historical perspective?"

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1. If you look at the names of some of the buildings and structures on campus, some are honoring rabid segregationists from an earlier era (see Exit 13). This "plantation mentality" is clearly associated with the mindset of McCann era, and some of this extend to this day.

2. The McCann era was notorious for making the lives of faculty miserable.

3. The Lucas era (two decades), though viewed longingly by some old timers as as benign time for faculty, really did little daring or creative to position us for the challenges we face today. Little thought was paid to developing endowments, technology, top end scholarship (except several small pockets across the university), or that evil word, external funding. Before I took a job here in the mid 90's I did a SSCI and SSI and database search on the faculty in my unit. At first glance I thought I spelled "Mississippi" wrong, given the abysmal lack of hits.

4. Virtual open admissions combined with rampant grade inflation is a recipe for disaster. This was the cause of the demise of the CUNY system, which was once truly world class. Here, part of this is attributable to Ayers, the rest due to a reluctance to uphold standards. Let's not blame administrators alone for this-I have seen plenty of faculty here socially promote students. However, I think (hope) this is getting better.

5. The Republican Southern Strategy has reified the notion among the locals that taxes are bad in all cases, especially for overpaid educators. Remember the failure of the last Lamar county bond issue for education?

6. A community college system that is often at odds with the mission of comprehensive universities. Two separate boards is just a plain dumb idea in a state such as ours.

7. An IHL that seems to be more interested in advancing personal agendas than facilitating the development of a comprehensive and integrated higher ed system in the state. A good board is one that stays in the background. 

8. This is a good old boy (and girl) "right to work" state. Note the mission of our Department of Labor (it's sad). When state personnel can be fired "at will," you can bet that this will be the way we do business. A corrolary is that people are underpaid and education and workforce training are not as valued as they should be. See the recent car-finish debacle at the Nissan Plant. Do we want people who take pride in their work and are loyal to an organization because it treats them right (because the workers have some clout)? In MS, folks' main care is getting a paycheck that is little above subsistence level, knowing that they can be canned at any time without recourse. Which is the better system long term? Indeed, this right to work mentality affects all state employees, including faculty (that's why there is an air of apprehension around contract time).

9. It's not always what you accomplish as much as who you know. In a small state like ours, and all politics are local (up to DC even). Sometimes this is good for us. Other times it is very bad. 

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Originally posted by: Redneck, White Socks, & Blue Ribbon Beer
" You are a good person, Angeline. I know that because I read your posts. Nonetheless, I must ask a question: do Mississippian's elect any more backwards, uncaring, neanderthal politicians than do other parts of the nation? Many jurisdictions elsewhere do much worse. Don't forget former mayors of Chicago and the more recent Dictrict of Columbia mayor; and former governors of Louisiana and  Alabama to name a few. Oh yes, don't forget New Jersey. Don't bite the hand of the Bubbas that feed youThey've got lots of common sense. Many of them might not vote your way but, heck, we often have very little choice. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king. Sincerely, Redneck, White Socks & Blue Ribbon Beer SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS  "

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What do you think about catfish?