if you're referring to today's press release on the USNWR story, I agree.  if not, i'm not sure what you're referring to.

but the word on graduate programs gets out in the appropriate circles.  i know of a program in my discipline that had a good reputation and is now in trouble and the word gets out.  when it comes to graduate programs "sayin' it don't make it so."  programs reviews ought to help an administration understand which programs are good and what some programs need to do to make themselves better.  doesn't always involve $ either.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Food For Thought
"

I am surprised that USM does not bring in external reviewers to conduct regular of its departments. In my opinion the review should be two-fold: a review of the department, and a review of the chair. "

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Well, they do--accreditation teams. Is that not what you mean? (They don't specifically review chairs, but they do review the credentials of all faculty in a dept.)

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Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
" i'm talking about universities that have 2-3 outside experts come into specific doctoral programs and assess what they are doing well, what not, can they improve, and if so, how they can improve.  "

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But they might tell us that we're . . . !. . . not "World Class!"
(Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

In general this seems like a good idea, but only under a competent administration (and if that were in place, this sort of thing would be less necessary, yes?) In the current atmosphere it would probably be views as yet another attempt to destroy what it working, etc.

Sorry to ask, but are these _paid_ outside consultants? And what sorts of people do the reviews?

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Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i agree with food for thought.  these sorts of reviews interview faculty, students, graduate students, administrators, etc.  the key issue is what is their purpose--improve programs or "axe" them?  that's where it gets dicey."

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And don't forget the periodic external review of the chair. That should be a separate review but conducted by the same external team during the same multiple-day visit. The dean is really not qualified to conduct such a review of the chairs. External reviewers tell it as it is and not as they want it to be.

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Originally posted by: foot soldier
"Well, it all sounds okay to me. But it still isn't clear to me how this is different than accreditation teams. It may be that there are big differences between accreditation in different areas. Most or all of what you've described sounds like accreditation in my field (with the exception of specific evaluation of the chair.)."

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I concede that there may be some disciplines where the accreditation visit can function as the intensive 5 to 7 year review. I suppose that accreditation pertains to professional programs. If the entire department is that professional program the accreditation visit could double as the intensive review. I was once a member of a 5-year review team for a department of mathematics and the mathematics chair. That was not an accreditation team. It was established solely for conducting the intensive 5-year review of the mathematics department.

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Originally posted by: Miles Long
"You are hiring a new faculty member. You have three basically identical vitas in front of you. One went to LSU, one went to ULL, and one went to Tulane. Which one would you hire?" The answer: Tulane.  Second place: LSU,  When it comes hiring time, the name and rep of the University are going to carry more weight than the strength of the department within the university."

Miles Long,

I agree with you: all other things being equal an employer who knew nothing else about you except where you went to school would more than likely select on the basis of overall university reputation.

But I believe that principle applies only for the first job. Beyond that you're on your own: performance, not institutional reputation, is what counts.

My guess is that, whether at USM or Harvard, some of their most productive faculty members went to 3rd or 4th tear undergraduate institutions and some of their least productive ones went to 1st or 2nd tier schools. The reputation of a school can open up doors but it takes performance to keep that door from hitting you in the a** as you're shoved outside and onto the sidewalk.

I believe that the same principle applies to graduate school admissions: students from 1st tier schools can be complete duds if selected solely on the basis of the reputation of their undergraduate school. Students from 3rd or 4th tier schools can be superb graduate students. That is unfortunate, but it is cold reality.

You didn't ask this related question but I will ask it: If I had a choice would I attend a large and impersonal but highly prestitious 1st or 2nd tier school as an undergraduate or a small, personal but less prestigious 3rd or 4th tier school? I'd take the small, personal but less prestigious one anyday. As I see it one of USM's problems is that it now has a 4th tier reputation and an aspiration to become the size of a 20,000 foot giant: the worst of all possible worlds for students and faculty. 

 

 

A brief anecdote which might suggest something about school reputation vs. the individual. This week, in my new faculty orientation (at a school to remain unnamed), a vice-provost asked where I had come from. When I said USM, he said, "you must have done really well to have come from there to here." He didn't say, "oh, that must be a good school if we hired someone from there."

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Originally posted by: educator
"Ah, foot soldier, I too have been through a new faculty orientation (at a school also to remain unnamed) this week where I too was queried about my past school - USM. My new Dean told me that the "university world was watching the debacle at USM", and several others mentioned their concern for the plight of those who they personally and professionally considered to be bright and brilliant faculty members who remain there. At points, I felt like the soldier who had somehow escaped the battles with my mind and body still somewhat intact.  NO QUARTER."

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Hi educator,

I have to confess to having been a bit of a wreck off and on during my orientation. The day opened with a video: brief profiles of people who work at my new school--it included faculty and staff. In fact, it started with comments from someone who works for the physical plant. The guy next to me was complaining about how corny it was, but I had to hide being teary-eyed. And least they knew that they should include staff in their video.

The next time I lost it was when the president of the faculty senate here spoke to us and told us that the faculty senate officers meet with the provost every week. Every month they meet with the president. She asked how many people in the room had heard of the AAUP, and I was dismayed at how few had. The president is a medievalist, and she talked about the roots of the university in the 13th century--how it was a guild of faculty who came together. (She didn't say it was founded by a king!)

At the dinner which concluded the orientation, the president--who has been here for years and rose through the ranks like Shelboo--opened his remarks by saying that the first reason he had stayed here so long was the strong tradition of shared governance. I felt like I could hardly breathe. Is there such a thing as post-traumatic-stress syndrome for ex-USM faculty? If so, I think I've got a serious case. (Thank goodness I can have four free counseling sessions with University mental health professionals!)

By the way, I've volunteered to help recruit for the AAUP here. The faculty senate president took my down my phone number and e-mail address with the note "capable of speaking passionately."

NO QUARTER

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Originally posted by: Let Freedom Ring
"Foot Soldier -
You'll have lots of great examples to speak passionately about when you recruit for AAUP!
 
No Quarter!"

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Thanks, Let Freedom Ring!

The other thing they said over and over during orientation was, "We want you to succeed, and we will do everything in our power to help you." Nobody ever said that to me in my years at USM.

For those of your on this board who don't work at USM, let my previous post be further evidence that the actions of the USM administration in the past two years ARE NOT BUSINESS AS USUAL in a university setting. (Sorry about the wanton capitalization.) The complaints of the faculty of USM are completely legitimate.

Are you reading this Roy Klumb?

That was hard to read, educator. There is hope, yes, but you show us how wide the gap it. Nevertheless, all good wishes. Don't leave us.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Curious II
"Do our colleagues at Gulf Park really want to be a part of all this?"

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quote:

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Originally posted by: Curious Too
"Do they have any other choices?"

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quote:

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Originally posted by: Curiouser and Curiouser
"        Originally posted by: Curious Too       "Do they have any other choices?"                  Do bears live in the woods?"

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Well, Sometimes they do.

 

http://www.ithaca.edu/ithacan/articles/0309/11/accent/LSdeer_and_woo.htm

 

http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2004/06/28ky/A1-bears0628-10610.html

 

http://www.naplesdailynews.com/npdn/sp_varsity/article/0,2071,NPDN_14998_3055002,00.html

 

http://www.ofah.org/news.cfm?Section=Media%20Watch&Action=GetDoc&ID=159

 

 

What To Do If You Meet a Black Bear

Bear attacks are rare compared to the number of close encounters. In most cases, a bear will detect you first and leave the area long before you'll ever see it. However, if you do meet a bear before it's had time to leave, here are some suggestions. But remember, every situation is different with respect to the bear, the terrain, the people, and their activity.

STAY CALM -- If you see a bear and it hasn't seen you, leave the area calmly. While moving away, talk to help the bear discover your presence.

GET BACK -- If you have a close encounter, back away slowly while facing a bear. Avoid direct eye contact, which a bear may perceive as a threat. Give the bear plenty of room to escape. Wild bears rarely attack people unless they feel threatened or provoked. If you're on a trail, step off on the downhill side and slowly leave the area.

DON'T CLIMB OR RUN -- If a cub is nearby, try to move away from it. But be alert, there could be other cubs. Never climb a tree to escape because sows chase their cubs up trees when they detect danger. If you climb a tree, a sow may interpret that as an attempt to get her cubs. Stay on the ground and don't run or make any sudden movements. Running may prompt the bear to give chase, and you can't outrun a bear.

PAY ATTENTION -- Bears will use all of their senses to figure out what you are. If they recognize you as a person, some may stand upright or move closer in their efforts to detect odors in the air currents. Don't consider this a sign of aggression. Once a bear identifies you, it will usually leave the area. However, if the bear stays, it may pop its jaws as a warning sign that it's uncomfortable. That's a sign for you to leave. Back away and slowly leave the area. If you ignore the jaw popping warning, some bears have been known to bluff charge to within a few feet. If this occurs, wave your arms wildly and shout at the bear.

FIGHT BACK -- Black bear attacks in the eastern United States are rare. However, they have occurred. If a bear attacks, fight back. Bears have been driven away when people have fought back with rocks, sticks, binoculars and even their bare hands.

 

http://www.cookforest.com/articles/blackbears.cfm