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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> What is USM's "nitche" in life?
Post Info TOPIC: What is USM's "nitche" in life?
Flash Gordon

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RE: RE: What is USM's "nitche" in life?
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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"pick some state universities.  yeah i know Miami of Ohio and James Madison may qualify as some (but in a limited way).  Why not pick Kent State or Bowling Green State in Ohio?
 "


Those would be reasonable choices. I chose Miami of Ohio because it has a much better academic reputation than Bowling Green and Kent State and a much stronger student body. I think the original question is what should we aspire to, so I aimed high.

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stinky cheese man

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i agree with your initial question.  at one point (pre-Fleming) i believed that we were close to being on par with State and Ole Miss.  importantly, i felt we had a sense of trying to compete with univerisites outside of the state and competing at least more regionally.  when Myron Henry's "A Regional University for the Gulf South" motto came out, i (and others) felt we had lost some 20 years of effort to make USM regionally visible (not the Gulf South, the Southeast) and nationally visible (in my area that was accomplished as well).  now, i feel we're competitive with south alabama, arkansas-little rock, tennessee-chattanooga.

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Miles Long

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RE: RE: What is USM's "niche" in life?
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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
" now, i feel we're competitive with south alabama, arkansas-little rock, tennessee-chattanooga. "


Bingo.

My dissertation advisor told me tha any school with a compass point in its name was doomed to be second tier.

As a USM alum, I disagreed with him, as I thought we were the best school in Mississippi.

Now, I see that he's probably right. USM is fortunate to be compared with USL (nee UL-Lafayette), SLU, UWF and USA.

People don't seem to fully grasp how long it would take the damage done by Shelboo to be fixed, if it would be. USM is, unless things radically change soon, destined to be a lower tier school.

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First Ant at the Picnic

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RE: RE: What is USM's "nitche" in life?
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quote:




Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i agree with your initial question.  at one point (pre-Fleming) i believed that we were close to being on par with State and Ole Miss . . .  when Myron Henry's "A Regional University for the Gulf South" motto came out, i (and others) felt we had lost some 20 years of effort to make USM regionally visible (not the Gulf South, the Southeast) and nationally visible."


Again, we may disagree a tiny bit, stinky. As I see it, had Horace Fleming remained at USM, we might have already caught up with Ole Miss and Mississippi State in many ways. Fleming had a national perspective. Although I usually like to think nationally rather than locally or regionally, I sort of liked Myron Henry's "University for the Gulf South" notion.



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Googler

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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"now, i feel we're competitive with south alabama, arkansas-little rock, tennessee-chattanooga. "

stinky, the athletic supporters (jock straps?) over on EagleTalk will cringe at your statement if applied in the context of intercollegiate athletics.


 



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stinky cheese man

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first ant--i hated Fleming's motto (it was really Myron Henry's).  it took us back to representing a part of the south.  neither Ole Miss or State at the time had a similar motto.  theirs were much more "visionary" than ours.  since then, we've sunk.  but i believe that we can be as visible as state and ole miss and other universities close to us.

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stinky cheese man

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i can deal with the athletic sorts as well.  now that CUSA has changed, we have dropped as well.  we'll never be SEC or the like.  compete with them--we can. i'm not one that thinks we should drop to I-AA.  we can have a clean, respectible, and competitive athletic program where we're at. 

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The Shadow

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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i can deal with the athletic sorts as well.  now that CUSA has changed, we have dropped as well.  we'll never be SEC or the like.  compete with them--we can. i'm not one that thinks we should drop to I-AA.  we can have a clean, respectible, and competitive athletic program where we're at.  "

As of now, we do.

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stinky cheese man

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i guess i'm pollyannaish because i think we'll stay that in the foreseeable future.  but i've been through our early 80's football fiasco, so i could be wrong.



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ram

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Consider Kansas.  UM:UK::MSU:KSU::USM:WSU(Wichita State University).  The comparison is limited to relative prestige.  In one respect WSU would be the analog to our urban university, JSU;  however, WSU does not carry the baggage of having evolved in a segregated system.

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Knock Knock

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quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"Consider Kansas.  UM:UK::MSU:KSU::USM:WSU(Wichita State University).  The comparison is limited to relative prestige.  In one respect WSU would be the analog to our urban university, JSU."
I like that analogy, ram, at least within the Kansas system. By WSU, I gather you mean Wright State.

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Knock Knock

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quote:
Originally posted by: Knock Knock
"I like that analogy, ram, at least within the Kansas system. By WSU, I gather you mean Wright State."
My mistake. I see on your post that WSU refers to Wichita State. I even got the incorrect state by thinking it meant Wright State.

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The Shadow

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The recent changes in the conference may have increased the degree of educational heterogeneity, especially with schools like Rice, SMU, and Tulsa coming on board and Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, and UNC Charlotte leaving.

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stinky cheese man

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take Iowa--Iowa--Ole Miss; Iowa State--MSU; Univ. of Northern Iowa--USM//take Colorado--Colorado--Ole Miss; Colorado State--MSU; U. of Northern Colorado or U of Southern Colorado--USM.  Lots of states parallel this.  Look at Oklahoma as well.

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Flash Gordon

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quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"take Iowa--Iowa--Ole Miss; Iowa State--MSU; Univ. of Northern Iowa--USM//take Colorado--Colorado--Ole Miss; Colorado State--MSU; U. of Northern Colorado or U of Southern Colorado--USM.  Lots of states parallel this.  Look at Oklahoma as well."


You are correct, Stinky. It's interesting to see that in most cases those examples and similar schools are Division IAA or they do not play football.

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Swan Song

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OKlahoma = Ole Miss, Okla State = MSU, Tulsa = USM athletically. The entrance ACT score for Tulsa is posted to be a 24.

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Invictus

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OK, folks, y'all are arguing about peer groupings, which may or may not have anything to do with USM's niche.

This is more what I'm wondering:

UM - liberal arts, law, medicine
MSU - land grant, agriculture, engineering
USM - ?????

Who has the "lead role" now in teacher training & educational administration?

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ewe

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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"Who has the "lead role" now in teacher training & educational administration? "
USM do.

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Swan Song

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quote:
Originally posted by: ewe
"USM do."
After the NCATE visit, we might be saying that USM did. Losing Martray and Miller = bad mistake.

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Palindrome

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I don't know who USM's peers are, but here is MSU's official list and criteria for selection

(http://www.msstate.edu/dept/opeie/Peer_Institutions.htm)

* Must be a Land Grant Institution
* Must have a similar profile of programs (no med school, no law school)
* Should have a similar "role" relative to the other public universities in the institution's state

Peer Institution
Auburn University
Clemson University
Iowa State University
Kansas State University
New Mexico State
North Carolina State University
Oklahoma State University
Oregon State University
Purdue University
Utah State University
Virginia Tech
Washington State University

Many of these have already been listed on this discussion.

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Okie alum stuck in Mississippi

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Sorry guys, but in no way does Ole Miss equal OU.  For several years, OU has had the highest percentage of national merit scholars of any public university in the country (don't know if that is true for the upcoming year).  Traditionally, several of its programs, headed by petroleum engineering, are in the top ten in the country.  It is head and shoulders above Ole Miss in all ways, including athletics.



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stinky cheese man

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i didn't mean equivalent in the sense you're talking about.  more in terms of mission within a state (liberal arts vs. aggy university).  ole miss has a ways to go to be on a par with a number of universities i pointed out.

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Okie alum stuck....

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Yes, I agree with that.

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Invictus

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quote:
Originally posted by: ewe
"USM do."


Not if you are interested in studying community college education or admin. In that case, you need to head for Starkville.

If you work at a high school or community college & need a "curriculum framework" for a new vo-tech program, you must head up to Starkville to visit your good friends at the R.C.U.

USM does not have the actual "lead role" in education & teacher training. If it did, UM & MSU would have no more elementary or secondary ed majors than USM has engineering majors.

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First Ant at the Picnic

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quote:
Originally posted by: Palindrome
". . .  peers . . . here is MSU's official list . . .Auburn University Clemson University Iowa State University Kansas State University New Mexico State North Carolina State University Oklahoma State University Oregon State University Purdue University Utah State University Virginia Tech Washington State."
So it appears that Mississippi State has already done what I believe should be done for USM.

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Geaux Tigers

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Okie alum stuck in Mississippi
"Sorry guys, but in no way does Ole Miss equal OU. It is head and shoulders above Ole Miss in all ways, including athletics."
But OU is not ahead of LSU in athletics. Neither is Southern Cal, no matter what they say publicly. Just sore losers, I guess.

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Invictus

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quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"So it appears that Mississippi State has already done what I believe should be done for USM. "


Yes... and no. By pre-defining it's peer group, MSU is basically constraining "peer group analyses" to a list that has already been deemed "acceptable."

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Delta Dawn

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quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Yes... and no. By pre-defining it's peer group, MSU is basically constraining "peer group analyses" to a list that has already been deemed "acceptable.""
But their list is workable with an underlying rationale. Whoever did it obvioulsy knew something. Do you know who put that list together?

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Okla U. alum SPRUNG from MS

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I agree Ole' Miss will never equate to the Univ. of Oklahoma. My daughter leaves for OU next week - a 4th generation Sooner.  Yet, both are considered state flagship universities



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Invictus

Date:
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What is USM's "nitche" in life
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Delta Dawn
"But their list is workable with an underlying rationale. Whoever did it obvioulsy knew something. Do you know who put that list together?"


I suspect that I know at least one person involved with the list, but I also suspect it was a group effort. And I am most definitely not questioning the integrity or motives of anybody at State.

My point was that by publishing a peer group listing, the institution constrains what it considers to be valid comparisons. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of personal preference.

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