I know what you are saying, and I have clumsily tried to explain myself, yet I too see the holes in my explanation. But those holes are there for a reason. Keep in mind, I am not attacking any individuals or FS members. I am just pointing out that in some Colleges at USM - a "fair" election puts a huge burden on some who are elected. To say more would be to reveal a few who can not withstand the burden of being revealed. Maybe it's a bit too heavy for this board, but it's basically all about politics and how politics are played out in the various colleges at USM.

There are some chairs out there who pressure everything. I am mainly talking about pressuring votes for items put before the FS, but I am also saying that there is a chair or two out there who have campaigned for people put up to be elected to the FS. I am being more specific than I wanted to be, but I am telling the truth. Lived it.  It is very hard on the elected FS member if they want to vote with a conscience. So far, they've done that. We'll see what happens in the fall. Again, I'm not casting blame towards the FS members - I'm just talking about pressure from outside sources.

I've never seen a university where so few seem to know so little about so much. Aren't there any guidelines? Or has it come to the place where your middle management (chair, dean) wets their finger in the manner of their choice, point it upward in the air when there is a breeze blowing, and make decisions based on the way they perceive the wind to be blowing at the moment?

Omen's last statement "I am just pointing out that in some Colleges at USM - a "fair" election puts a huge burden on some who are elected." is a far cry from the statement that in some college the senator is "appointed" by the chair.

Since we are way off topic now, I will not pursue this further.

I will now retire to contemplate the usefulness of this board in fostering communication. This exchange was too deep for me.

quote:

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Originally posted by: Omen Spit
"I am from a Dept. at USM where the chair did know the outcome of the votes and if people voted by email (an option exercised by many), the chair knew who voted for whom."

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I will send this to the Chair the Faculty Senate Elections Committee. There is no option to vote via email. The results of an election is only know by the elections committee. Omen, are you not being clear again on purpose?

Omen, you have done it again.

Truth, are you sure Omen is not a troll?

quote:

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Originally posted by: Omen Spit
"I was very unclear with the quote that you pointed out to me. I guess I am hedging because to say too much is to reveal too much. I am not a troll, and I admire the FS. You are right ,the chairs don't outright appoint FS members, but they do influence who is voted into that position, if they so choose to. Many chairs are fair, a couple arent'.  I am not attacking the FS. I actually feel sorry for some of them since they are in no win positions. They are very brave people, but one College does not equate to the next College at this university."

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Omen Spit, From one faculty member to another, please stay strong, do not give up the fight.....

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Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
" I will send this to the Chair the Faculty Senate Elections Committee. There is no option to vote via email. The results of an election is only know by the elections committee. Omen, are you not being clear again on purpose? Omen, you have done it again. Truth, are you sure Omen is not a troll? "

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I have done nothing again except to confuse you and for that I apologize. I am talking about elections, not specifically about the FS, but I do hope you send this to the Chair because he needs to be aware of any discrepancies that might exist. Do you truly think that due process exists in all departments??? That is quite a naive belief. I am sorry for bringing you into the underbelly area. I am the furthest thing from a troll. And, if I was any clearer - I would jeopardize people. Truth, in your best manner - please try to explain.

Omem Spit, Truth's word is enough

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Originally posted by: Omen Spit
"Truth, in your best manner - please try to explain."

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I think in an effort to be oblique, OS has not been able to give specifics that would explain the situation better.  Suffice it to say, there are apparently deans/chairs who are unduly exerting pressure on faculty members--both those who are senators and those who are voting for senators during elections.  I don't know much about the process, so I can't comment on that.  Let this be a "heads up" to alert those who have the power to fix this!

Thanks.  I understand that this message board holds a community of people who come from different vantage points. Sometimes trying to tell something is difficult, and I know that trolls interfere. However, I know that it is SFT's most beloved wish that we not remain in communication with one another. And, he'd love nothing better than, if we did talk amongst ourselves, for us to keep it as generic as possible. Even after Leaving ASAP has eaten up my posts and spit them out, I will not back away from the point I was trying to make (Keep in mind that Leaving ASAP responses helped me to clarify my subsequent posts). Due Process is not happening. The Faculty Handbook is not the basis of administrative decisions. I admire the FS, but I know that the system is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and it is no one in the FS's fault.  And I won't retreat into silence either. As long as we are respectful, can't we disagree on certain issues?

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Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
" I have noticed that s/he has not answered a single question I put to her/him. Throwing back words that create more questions is not communicating. Truth, would you answer one question that lead me into all of this? I described the FS election process at USM to you. Has the election rules been violated? If Omen tells the "truth" then they were violations because the "chair appointed the FS member". Oh, I forgot that was creative speech. OK, some faculty voted via e-mail, not an option at USM. The chair obtained the votes. Not supposed to be given out by elections committee. What say you, Truth? "

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OS, correct me if I'm wrong here (or if you can comment!).  My understanding of the situation is that pressure was put on faculty members (by chairs or deans) to vote for certain candidates for Faculty Senators.  I don't know anything about the manner for voting (email, etc.) nor do I know if the chair or dean obtained the votes or not.  Also, my understanding is that, once elected, pressure has been exerted on certain Faculty Senators from their higher-ups to vote in certain ways. 

That is all I know, LASAP.

Omen now says "...I will not back away from the point I was trying to make ... Due Process is not happening. The Faculty Handbook is not the basis of administrative decisions. I admire the FS, but I know that the system is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and it is no one in the FS's fault. And I won't retreat into silence either. As long as we are respectful, can't we disagree on certain issues?"

Finally a statement with which I can totally agree.
Now that wasn’t hard. Clear and concise without too much detail.

I thought you had evidence that FS elections were fix and felt it my duty to check that out.

No hard feeling. But I was going to play golf before it rains and now I hear thunder. I hope your sorry.

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Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Those who know the internal dynamics: is the current Faculty Senate at USM prepared for a long hard struggle against the Shelby Thames regime?  Or were the deal that was cut concerning Angie Dvorak's "business resume," and the decision to send a represenative to the PUC/PC, indications that the Senate leadership now prefers to "work with" Thames and crew? Given Mader's track record, why would any Faculty Senator not support a resolution of no confidence in her? Robert Campbell"

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Robert, as a faculty senator I take your advice of no confidence in Mader seriously. But the truth is -- there is no love lost in the very public discord between the senate and mader. Remember right now that we are in summer -- senate isn't even meeting. And frankly, I think we have lots more on our plate upcoming . . . I just don't care to put the limited time and energy I have into formalizing something that is already not a secret. I speak only for myself -- others might have other opinions. But I'd be less than happy if you make whether or not the senate will put up a vote on mader a sign that the senate has somehow softened or made a deal. It hasn't.

One more thing. The senate recovenes in august with a slightly different composition. Stricitly speaking, we are not starting exactly where we finished. The new folks will have to catch up -- those of us who were around last year are going to have to help inform them on one hand but they need to come along at their own pace.

As important as all of this is --  being a senator isn't a full time job for senators. It is in the nature of the beast that in a democracy there is turnover and continuity isn't necessarily in a straight line. The senate that was debating strongly the possibility of a no confidence vote in april of 2003 took almost a year and a tragic event in our community to finally gather the strength and unity to act.

quote:

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Originally posted by: LeavingASAP
"Omen now says "...I will not back away from the point I was trying to make ... Due Process is not happening. The Faculty Handbook is not the basis of administrative decisions. I admire the FS, but I know that the system is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and it is no one in the FS's fault. And I won't retreat into silence either. As long as we are respectful, can't we disagree on certain issues?" Finally a statement with which I can totally agree. Now that wasn’t hard. Clear and concise without too much detail. I thought you had evidence that FS elections were fix and felt it my duty to check that out. No hard feeling. But I was going to play golf before it rains and now I hear thunder. I hope your sorry. "

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my most humble apologies!!!!!!!!