Board For Members-Only letter to Buck & Young - USM Forum -- Message Board

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Board For Members-Only letter to Buck & Young

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Which will hurt the AAUP the most:
Having non-members post? or
Isolating AAUP from everyone else?

How does one get messages across if there is no one to hear? USM AAUP better start hiring the PR person.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Online Prof
"I just sent a letter to Jane Buck, the president of the national AAUP, to ask her to consider proposing a bylaw to make bulletin boards and listservs be for members only."

Here again, Online Prof, it appears to me that freedom of expression such as exists in this great country bothers you a bit. I wonder if the local AAUP suggested that you send such a letter, or if you simply took it upon yourself to request an action. Strange.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Which?
"Which will hurt the AAUP the most: Having non-members post? or Isolating AAUP from everyone else? How does one get messages across if there is no one to hear? USM AAUP better start hiring the PR person. "

You misunderstood. Non-members will still be able to read. And nothing in his letter said non-faculty could not participate. It just said non-aaup members. There is a difference between the two in that one does not have to be a current faculty member to remain a member of the aaup. I also like the idea of having passwords assigned. That would clean up this board rather quickly.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Ranger Bob
"
Here again, Online Prof, it appears to me that freedom of expression such as exists in this great country bothers you a bit. I wonder if the local AAUP suggested that you send such a letter, or if you simply took it upon yourself to request an action. Strange."

He probably sent it because he knew what the response would be from Campbell and Young. Remember though, it was just a letter and it would still have to go a long way to be adopted. This board is taking the usm chapter of aaup to a low level. It needs to be cleaned up. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. There will still be plenty of freedom of speech even with a members only board.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ru confused
" . . . nothing in his letter said non-faculty could not participate.

ru confused,

Your interpretation of what Online Prof said is a little different than mine. Here is a cut-and-past version of what Online Prof said:

"non-faculty can return to the Fire Thames website or use the Sun Herald bulletin board if they still want their voices heard."

What part of "no" don't you understand?

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Ranger Bob
" Your interpretation of what Online Prof said is a little different than mine. Here is a cut-and-past version of what Online Prof said:"non-faculty can return to the Fire Thames website or use the Sun Herald bulletin board if they still want their voices heard."What part of "no" don't you understand?

Read the whole thing again. He used "non-faculty" one time. Of course you get confused when you just cut and paste one sentence. That is why I explained it to you. You needed clarification, and that is now what you have. You are welcome.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

No doubt more than one poster here would be cut off from posting--but not from reading--if this board went to members only. That is because many are neither faculty nor aaup members. I think that has been well established. Personally, these non-faculty and non-aaup members won't be much of a loss to me.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ru confused
"Personally, these non-faculty and non-aaup members won't be much of a loss to me."

I suspected you might feel like that, ru confused. But I, for one, appreciate the participation of quite a few of the astute and insightful alumni, former faculty members, and non- aaup faculty members who have posted on this message board. I would find their absence a great loss. From my perspective, their participation has been important. I would most certainly not want them to move over to the SunHerald message board, or to the EagleTalk message board.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

AAUP membership costs about $100 a year. That would certainly be an impediment to many people whose ideas are worth hearing.

This sudden concern for how this board makes AAUP look strikes me as an attempt to muzzle the expression of ideas that some people find threatening. Nobody is forced to log on to the board to read anything.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

IF the “clean-up” goal is to eliminate opinions or thoughts not wanted, I am reminded of one of Udall’s quotes….. "When all men think alike, no one thinks much at all."

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: The Shadow
"AAUP membership costs about $100 a year. That would certainly be an impediment to many people whose ideas are worth hearing. This sudden concern for how this board makes AAUP look strikes me as an attempt to muzzle the expression of ideas that some people find threatening. Nobody is forced to log on to the board to read anything."

Shadow is absolutely correct. To his/her thoughts I would like to add this: The contributions to this message board by staff members has been great indeed. Some of them probably have a greater insight into the real workings of the university than do some of our faculty members. It appears to me that there are some people out there trying to suppress communication on this campus by restricting communication on this board. From the sound of their postings, it sounds like they are more likely to be moles rather than trolls.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

I'm a faculty member at USM, but can't afford the AAUP dues. I want to hear all sides, faculty, staff, alumni, general public,students etc. Only I can't tell them apart, but can only guess. But why do I need to know? If you are dealing with IDEAS, who makes the argument doesn't matter, unless you want to label people.

Online Prod, is that really what your problem is? You made statements, which you later took back, because you attached them to USM faculty without being able to prove the people you criticized were faculty. It seems to me you have an agenda and need a way to identify your opponents. (Just call them liberals, that seem to work well in this part of the country.)

I hate to say this, but online prof sounds like Seeker to me (or was that Roy Klumb?) Could Seeker = Online Prod = ru confused ???

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
"I hate to say this, but online prof sounds like Seeker to me (or was that Roy Klumb?) Could Seeker = Online Prod = ru confused ?"

They do seem to be whistling the same tune, don't they?

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Can't you guys tell? Online Prof is probably a member of USM's central administration and he's doing everything he can think of to disrupt this board. His latest idea is a stroke of genius. Go behind our backs (unilaterally) and pen a letter to the national AAUP in hopes that they will have this board removed. I wouldn't be surprised if Online Prof is really Ken Malone, David Butler, or someone like that.

You guys better stiffen up and watch out for trolls like Online Prof. It's only a matter of time before they start getting this snaky or even more so.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

The real giveaway was O.P.'s offer to take over the board. OP may be one of the people named, but also is a person who is eating up the attention he/she is getting here. Not Seeker, though, way too literate.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

I don’t understand the fuss. You can get a website host for as little as $6 a month now. Most website hosts come with a bulletin board now. Even if this one went members only, these other people could still have a website of their own with a bulletin board. In fact, just leave this one like it is and the aaup chapter can start an official members only website somewhere else and with a different address.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"Of course this means the board would have to be run by a member, which I am now perfectly willing to do just to get it started."

You're a real prince, O.P. I assume you will also volunteer to keep track of the email addresses of all the posters just in case someone would like to know who said something.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Flash Gordon
" You're a real prince, O.P. I assume you will also volunteer to keep track of the email addresses of all the posters just in case someone would like to know who said something."

In view of the email debacle, the inappropriate attempt to terminate faculty members, and other indignities to which USM faculty have been subjected, a faculty member would have to be either not very bright, or have their head in a sack, to agree to this sort of thing. Who among the faculty is not one of the usual suspects? I'm so glad I'm not still around and subject to the precinct's interrogation room filled with its bright lights and billyclubs.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Personally, it has never occured to me to identify this opinions expressed in this website with the AAUP. I thought AAUP was providing a forum. I have always seen this as a service completely appropriate to the AAUP's mission. As an AAUP member what I like about the board is that it is one of the few places where dissident opinions can be expressed and occasionally conflicting ideas can be argued. While the Board probably serves its greatest function in allowing people who feel unable to express what they want to say in other quarters of the campus, I have certainly seen some good argements here -- as well as poor ones.

I personally would rather wade through the various strings and comments myself, decide what is valuable and ignore what seems trivial, silly, or incendiary than to create a heavy handed mechanism of exclusion.

Perhaps there might be a compromise in that there could be a members only board to run parallel to this one -- but I fear that the exchanges between members and nonmembers would be lost. There have been many good things said by non-members (or those I take to be nonmembers). I'd hate to lose those comments.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Well-said Stephen. I agree completely. I think Online Prof has an agenda to criticize faculty, but has the problem that O.P. can't really identify who the USM faculty are. Wasn't it Roy Klumb who wanted faculty to identify themselves on the FS board?

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

Are adjunct and visiting faculty eligible to join AAUP?

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Are adjunct and visiting faculty eligible to join AAUP?"

Yes, I believe they can join. I know gradaute students are eligible. I believe we now have the largest chapter in Mississippi and probable the largest in the South. the general public thinks the AAUP is a union. If we can grow the membership to significant numbers we will send a messge and scare hell out of the Collge Board. History has taught us that unionization results from poor management. Every new member sends a message.

Amy Young is doing a great job as President. Each of you needs to make the commitment to join. It will be the voice and is our hope. I hope you will join today.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Pecos
" Yes, I believe they can join. I know gradaute students are eligible. I believe we now have the largest chapter in Mississippi and probable the largest in the South. the general public thinks the AAUP is a union. If we can grow the membership to significant numbers we will send a messge and scare hell out of the Collge Board. History has taught us that unionization results from poor management. Every new member sends a message. Amy Young is doing a great job as President. Each of you needs to make the commitment to join. It will be the voice and is our hope. I hope you will join today."
Right on Pecos!

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ru confused
"He [Online Prof] probably sent it [to Jane Buck, president of the national AAUP] because he knew what the response would be from Campbell and Young. Remember though, it was just a letter and it would still have to go a long way to be adopted. This board is taking the usm chapter of aaup to a low level. It needs to be cleaned up. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. There will still be plenty of freedom of speech even with a members only board."

I'm not a member of the USM AAUP chapter...nor would it be possible for me to become a member of that chapter, since I'm not at USM.

I find it interesting, then, that "Online Prof"'s ally, "ru confused," saw fit to mention me here.

I think that "Online Prof" is simply trying to run off the present board any contributors from outside of USM (and any non-faculty contributors from USM) that he or she doesn't like. That would be a long list of contributors, including Truth4USM, and quite possibly the original Fire Shelby.

I rather doubt that Jane Buck is going to support "Online Prof" on this one. The national office of AAUP has a policy of not getting involved in intra-chapter disputes. (In fact, there is an intra-chapter dispute only if "Online Prof" is actually a member of the USM AAUP chapter, and not an administrator who wants to curb the effectiveness of that AAUP chapter.)

Robert Campbell

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
Curiously, it was not I who first mentioned having a members only website or board. "

Online prof- to be fair, the idea mentioned above was brought up in the thread "True (and new) 099 story!!!!" a few days ago as a response to a story that poked fun at a new usm student's parent who called to ask about purchasing school supplies. This question of whether the message board was too closely associated with the aaup's website has become a different discussion since then. Now people are suggesting the message board be members-only, without a plan for the board as it currently exists.

It seems like you initially were upset that many people posted negative things about teaching 099 students. This is not how you think faculty (if they are faculty) ought to look at remedial courses, and you're fed up with it and have suggested changing the message board entirely.

Please consider that the message board may be better off just the way it is. I'm glad to have a way to hear about what's happening in Hattiesburg, and would miss the postings of people who aren't aaup faculty members. Certainly, if you pursue a members-only board and drum up enough support from aaup members, it could be done. But this board's function as a place to speak freely and anonymously about real problems would be hindered, a cost that might make the board not all that useful to anyone anymore.

Although at times people post things that might not be flattering if they were taken to represent aaup members' postings, it should be clear to a reader that anyone can post to the board from that disclaimer sticky. I would be sorry to find I lended support to an idea that ultimately shut down this message board. I'm willing to bet there are probably a lot of other faculty who care about helping students in the 099 classes, whom you will see are kindred spirits with you on wanting to help them. I hope you do and good luck with your class this fall.

Permalink · Date: Jul 31, 2004

I've been away from the board and recently read some of the comments regarding making this board "members-only". I've tried to add my 2 cents every so often.

Many know I'm a faculty member and that many of the comments from the (large number of) contributors have been very insightful, thought-out and full of reason. Others (from outside our campus like Robert Campbell) share our concerns, and wish to contribute to our cause. Others away from the USM campus have contributed as well (past faculty (Frank G, Jim H. and those who have left because they were not tenured or given a contract like Melissa W. or terminated like Terry K., and the other members of the 125 who have left USM).

I see this board as a forum for comments (both positive/negative), the sharing of ideas, concerns and reasonable discussion of some the problems facing this faculty, the staff (they read this board too), and students (both undergrad and grad -like Truth4usm/AH). Some individuals have also abused this board, but readers have the option of reading or jumping to another posting. No one is forcing you read or to contribute to this board. I see this forum as an opportunity to contribute one's viewpoint. When you limit communication, you stop the voice of many others. I would hope that Amy Young and the AAUP ex committee will NOT limit the sharing of ideas and comments. I would hope they will not stop this OPEN "communication" we have shared since the Fire Shelby site "went off the air". I would hope those who have expressed that this be a members-only board will rethink their view point and consider this: If your comments were not able to be posted or not allowed to be expressed on this board (about changing the board to members-only), YOUR voice would have not been heard............Allow the voices free to comment, keep the door to communication open, keep this board free.

Permalink · Date: Aug 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"When you limit communication, you stop the voice..........Allow the voices free to comment, keep the door to communication open, keep this board free. "

Thank you GH for a thoughtful post. I want to add that the original Fire Shelby site and then this one have provided something invaluable to many of us - a sense of community and comradery during an incredibly stressful time. This is something that everyone -AAUP member or not, faculty or staff or student or alumni or parent, current or former USM connection, interested outside individuals, etc. - who has been affected by the problems, who has had low morale, who has felt isolated, who has been paranoid and afraid for their jobs, who has been concerned about USM's future, who has been worried about national implications for tenure, etc. has benefited from. (Sorry about that run on sentence!) The freedom to share ideas and support has been key. If there were only an AAUP board, or if there were one for AAUP members and one for "others" we would lose A LOT in my opinion. Too much. We have great diversity here and I think that's critical for coming up with the best ideas. I worry that changing this board would only dilute and lessen whatever power we have. I worry that important ideas would not be heard by people who might gain something from them or have something valuable to add to them. I worry that morale will only sink lower for those further isolated and eliminated from the comradery and sense of purpose they've felt here. This has been a place where some who typically do not feel a great deal of power (staff, students, etc.) have been able to share ideas and help in meaningful ways, and feel a part of things - feel their input and voice are valued. I think this proposal is another attempt to divide and conquer and I sincerely hope that it does not come to pass.

NO QUARTER!
NO QUARTER!
NO QUARTER!

Permalink · Date: Aug 1, 2004

Thank you LFR, and may I add we should not forget those words from the AAUP president........

From Amy Young, incoming president AAUP-USMMay 27th,

"The American Association of University Professors is dedicated to promoting academic freedom and free speech. The USM chapter of the AAUP is pleased to host this message board so that ideas and information can be easily exchanged for all who care to see.

Please keep in mind that freedom of expression requires tolerance of ideas that we might not like, and the views expressed on this board do not necessarily reflect the policies and statements of the American Association of University Professors."

Permalink · Date: Aug 1, 2004

kick