099 Courses - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 29, 2004

RE: RE: 099 Courses

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
" There is no way I would tell you who I sent it to. That would establish my identity here on this board. "

If you didn't send your request to the chair of the English Dept., I'm afraid I don't understand how you expect to be hired. I think it's great that you want to help, but I don't follow your logic here. Perhaps that's what you want since you don't want to be identified--I understand that.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"My frustration with the 099 classes aren't the students at all. It's that we don't have enough faculty including adjuncts who have teaching skills to teach these classes."

I'm glad you identified the true problem. It takes special skills to work with at-risk students.

I had the privilege of working some years ago with a mathematics instructor at a community college who did her master's thesis (M.Ed.) about teaching remedial students. Believe it or not, that is what she wanted to do & she was very, very good at it. It was a "mission" for her (and a worthy one at that).

One problem with using adjuncts is that they are often unfamiliar with various support services on campus. Adjuncts hired to teach remedial level courses must be provided with solid orientation and professional development. Very few colleges & universities provide this kind of support.

A recent study out of the University of Southern Indiana suggests that when regular freshmen have more than 50% of their courses taught by part-time faculty (including GAs), they are significantly less likely to re-enroll the next semester. And regular freshment aren't quite "at risk" as the student who requires remediation.

(Again, this isn't a slam against adjuncts. It is a slam against the indiscriminate use of adjuncts for whom an institution provides little or no professional development support.)

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Done Gone
"
On Line, I was wondering about a tacit assumption you have made here. Exactly what percentage of variance in student success and learning can be accounted for by the dedication and caring of the instructor?
Bear in mind that a linear model explaining the variance in student success and learning would contain predictors like (1) parents' individual genetic contributions and the interaction of the two, (2) rearing, (3) primary education, (4) secondary education, (5) all the students' interaction with the world from the his/her conception (and possibly before), etc. Keep in mind also that all the interactions between these predictors must be considered as well.
How much variance in student learning does an instructor actually control?
"

Online can speak for him/herself, of course.

But... If we follow your logic, DG, we might as well replace all faculty with computer labs. Course-on-a-disk indeed!

Yes, an instructor controls very little of the students' backgrounds -- prior learning, innate ability, etc. But the instructor can control a LOT of student learning in the present tense by motivating students, encouraging them to persist, being alert to students who need extra help & providing that help.

There is a vast body of literature on the characteristics of at-risk students, the methods that work best for them, etc. The one-size-fits-all lecture held in an auditorium, for example, is not a method that works very well with "099ers." Those who teach at-risk students need special support themselves. Very special support.

Believe me, increasing 099 classes is not a cost-effective way to bolster a university's state appropriations. Unless the administration is utterly cynical about what the 099s are really all about.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
" you do realize we are talking about teaching high school subject matter at a university. Mississippi is the poorest state in the union and can't afford to have high school material taught at university. "

If you are going to look at 099 classes in this light, I cannot argue against it. I look at it under an entirely different light. I feel as strongly as I do about 099 classes because I have second-hand experience with their equivalents at three community colleges here in MS. I also know that more and more students are going to be coming from the MS Virtual Community College, at which I also have first-hand experience. Things are not going to get better by "passing the buck." I see here an opportunity to do what I feel the community colleges are not doing well. If I had conclusive proof that Thames was doing this just for the money--which I still have great doubts about--I would come out against the 099 classes in a NY second.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"If you didn't send your request to the chair of the English Dept., I'm afraid I don't understand how you expect to be hired. I think it's great that you want to help, but I don't follow your logic here. Perhaps that's what you want since you don't want to be identified--I understand that."

I fail to see how anything I say on this board is going to help me get hired. The alternative could very well be the case though, in that I won't be hired based on what I say. It is irrelevant now anyway. It is not going to happen.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"It is my understanding that in some state systems of higher education (I don't know about Mississippi), the university president can admit something like X%, at his/her discretion, even when that student does not meet lthe minimum admissions standard set by the governing board. I have been told that the X% is normally reserved for outstanding athletes who could not otherwise meet the admisisons standard. I do not know whether I was given the correct information. Can anyone speak to this?"

When I was in the SUNY system departments couild get waivers for students under the "special talent" category. It was actually pretty succesful in my program. Students who have an unusually strong record of performance in an area have something to measure success by. This tends to make it easier to help them to learn how to master areas in which they have problems . . .

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Online can speak for him/herself, of course. But... If we follow your logic, DG, we might as well replace all faculty with computer labs. Course-on-a-disk indeed! Yes, an instructor controls very little of the students' backgrounds -- prior learning, innate ability, etc. But the instructor can control a LOT of student learning in the present tense by motivating students, encouraging them to persist, being alert to students who need extra help & providing that help. There is a vast body of literature on the characteristics of at-risk students, the methods that work best for them, etc. The one-size-fits-all lecture held in an auditorium, for example, is not a method that works very well with "099ers." Those who teach at-risk students need special support themselves. Very special support. Believe me, increasing 099 classes is not a cost-effective way to bolster a university's state appropriations. Unless the administration is utterly cynical about what the 099s are really all about. "

What about the variance in student learning? Not in student background. Not in what the instructor does. In student learning.

Simply put, the 099 students are not on average, for any number of reasons beyond the control of the instructor, as able as regularly admitted students to learn as much (in terms of breadth and depth) of the material that comprises a good undergraduate education. Either the grading standards have to lower, or the 099 students are less likely to succeed than regularly admitted students, proportionally speaking. Sure, there are always anecdotal success stories about people who overcome low marks. It sounds like On Line lived one (congratulations). However, I am referring to populations, not individuals.

So, why not put it on CD-ROM and admit anyone with a pulse and a positive checking account balance or an un-maxxed credit card? It's only a small step from hiring adjunct instructors at the last minute through local newspaper advertisement. Either alternative is only a band-aid on a cranial bullet hole. Better to refer them to a community college for triage and see how much they can learn there.

It is about the learning, not passing the class. And, these are increasingly un-associated events. Persistence, work, tutoring, one-on-one time, special attention, etc. do not equal learning, especially where grades are inflated to utter invalidity and admissions are open-door.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"I fail to see how anything I say on this board is going to help me get hired. The alternative could very well be the case though, in that I won't be hired based on what I say. It is irrelevant now anyway. It is not going to happen."

Not meaning to beat a dead horse, but I did not say that anything you said on this board would get you hired. I simply said that you might have a better chance if you followed the proper procedures (i.e. getting in touch with the chair of the dept.).

Date: Jul 29, 2004

After today's discussion that has basically centered around the 099 class I've decided that

Tonight I'm going to party like it's ZERO NINETY NINE!

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Shaft
"After today's discussion that has basically centered around the 099 class I've decided that Tonight I'm going to party like it's ZERO NINETY NINE!"

Mr. Wonderful....!!

Being a huge Prince fan, I totally appreciate this one! Rock on with your bad self, Shaft!

Date: Jul 29, 2004

Another view on 099 courses and open admissions. If we look at how most students view college, it's as an "investment project". I think even for regular admittees to USM, it's a struggle to make going to college a ">0 return" investment project. For 099 students, coming to USM is almost certain to turn out to be a "<0 return" investment project.

What's the solution? Invictus has it. If they are to get a ">0 return" investment project return in education, community college is the way to go.

Date: Jul 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: tomcat
"Another view on 099 courses and open admissions. If we look at how most students view college, it's as an "investment project". I think even for regular admittees to USM, it's a struggle to make going to college a ">0 return" investment project. For 099 students, coming to USM is almost certain to turn out to be a "<0 return" investment project. What's the solution? Invictus has it. If they are to get a ">0 return" investment project return in education, community college is the way to go."

I'm praising the choir on this post. I love the CC idea and have encouraged my children to attend them first. You'll find some awesome teachers there.

Date: Aug 2, 2004

Yes, let's lower admissions standards even further, and proliferate lots English 099 sections. We can call ourselves "USM: A Word Class University.

Date: Aug 23, 2004

First day of class for the 099s. Do we have any reports from the field? CIE? ENG? MAT?