For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members - USM Forum -- Message Board

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

I agree with your final statement that it is extremely important for the faculty to show themselves in a positive light. However, at USM, the flow of information is not controlled by the faculty, but by the faculty's adversaries. So that's a problem.

However, people who have given their entire professional lives to something, only to see it destroyed, have the right to at least some bitterness. I don't want to get back into the issue of whether DC Berry should have done what he did -- that was thrashed out on the FS board -- but at least he earned the right to make his protest, whether or not we agreed with the method.

Also, I take issue with the implication that bad, contentious faculty were "forced out" as if that were a good thing. That was Seeker's position too. Who are "these people" you speak of?

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Also, I take issue with the implication that bad, contentious faculty were "forced out" as if that were a good thing. That was Seeker's position too. Who are "these people" you speak of?"

NVN is right, as usual. For the most part, the faculty members who leave do so because they are highly marketable - not because they are "forced out." Other highly marketable faculty remain because of personal reasons or because of the quality-of-life they perceive in Hatiesburg. The poster called not bitter clearly does not seem to understand the academic marketplace.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

Okay, this warrants taking a break.

quote:

Originally posted by: Online Prof
"Not all faculty agree with what these people are doing.

But I think it's safe to say that most think SOMETHING needs to be done.

I actually heard one IHL member say that he would never vote to replace Thames after he saw the English professor (name?) destroying his teaching awards on TV.

Dr. Berry--and, pluheez, do you really think that this guy's vote was up for grabs?

Ever heard the phrase “a few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch”?

Yeah, and if it weren't those chief two "rotten apples," Stringer and Glamser, USM would still have both Dvorak's and Hanbury. You cannot possibly argue that nothing positive has come of the past few months.

"I think perhaps we need some positive news in the media about the faculty and staff. Instead of saying what people are doing wrong, for a change let us say what we are doing right. "

Now this I actually agree with, and on some level, I think it's already happening. I saw two of SFT's harshest critics, Drs. Amy Young and Noel Polk, on WDAM's early morning news show discussing their summer projects--Young's dig near Jackson (I think--it was in MS anyway) and Polk's trip to Japan.  It was impossible to ignore the positive impact their work is having on the state of MS.  As SFT well knows, good press is a good thing.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"I actually heard one IHL member say that he would never vote to replace Thames after he saw the English professor . . . destroying his teaching awards . . ."

Online Prof,

You must have misunderstood what you thought you heard that IHL member say. Surely no objective IHL member would allow an event such as a faculty member destroying his teaching awards influence an important personnel matter such as whether or not to replace a president. Perhaps you give a certain IHL member less credit than is deserved.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

I know a teacher at Jefferson Davis Community College who used Parker’s letter in one of her public-relations-type classes to show students an example of “what not to do.” I am also using it in one of my writing classes for my students as an example of the pitfalls of slang and informal writing. I will also be using it as a bad example in the section that shows how to convince a reader of your argument . . . or in this case, how not to.

hmmmm . . . maybe I will use your entire post in my classes in the fall as an example of what not to do.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

Haven't posted in months but must do so now.

USM is no longer a university in the classic sense of the word. Yes, it offers degrees--even graduate ones. But there is no sense of exploration, of freedom to make mistakes, of freedom of expression, of intellectual risk taking.

Perhaps Ole Miss and State have some semblance of this. Let us Mississippians hope this is true--for the good of the youthful learners in this state.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter member

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members

Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter me

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

on these manuscripts that will take 2 years to review--are they research manuscripts or book-length manuscripts? in my discipline, research manuscripts are routinely reviewed in 3-4 months. book length manuscripts typically don't take that long either.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter member

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

my estimates of my discipline's review process don't include revise-and-resubmit and second review times. these are the top journals as well.

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter member

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members

Permalink · Date: Jul 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"The journal to which it has been accepted is far more important that the length of the manuscript. In my discipline, for instance, one article in a journal like Science is more significant than several in the Journal of Smoke and Mirrors (although several years ago I was unsuccessful in communicating that to my dean). Another thing that bothered me a great deal is that the dean at that time wanted an article to "count" only when actually appeared in print. I, on the other hand, was accustomed to counting the article when it had undergone the mandated peer review, after all necessary corrections or modifications had been made, when the manuscript was fully accepted by the Editor, and when it could be cited as In Press on the faculty member's resume. I saw no need to wait a year or more until the article was actually out "in print" to credit it. "

I neglected to mention one other thing in the above posting. If quantity (number of publications) is counted more than quality of the journal, then some new faculty members might be tempted to rush publication of insignificant crap in the "junk" journals rather than develop a programatic line of research resulting in significant work submitted to the better journals. Another diagreement I had with the person who was dean back then.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: AmLitChick
""

Truth4USM, no matter how many names you use on this board, we will always be able to recognize your posts. You have got to stop breaking up peoples’ posts like this, especially when the poster appears to be a faculty member. The way you criticize people is demonstrative of your low educational attainment. You should reply to the posts in whole, as is done in article reviews for journals. The method you use intimates pettiness and small-mindedness. Although this is a bulletin board and not a journal, your posts reflect negatively upon the instructors at this school. While your message might be right, the manner in which you express it will loose many followers. Perhaps your instructors are afraid to tell you this, but this one is not.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: rucker
"hmmmm . . . maybe I will use your entire post in my classes in the fall as an example of what not to do."

Please tell me you are not serious? There is a great distinction between signed newspaper columns and anonymous bulletin board posts. What instructor would use a bulletin board post in class for purposes of demonstration?

I know have I just completely changed this thread's topic, but I was shocked by the statement above.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: little seeker
" Truth4USM, no matter how many names you use on this board, we will always be able to recognize your posts. You have got to stop breaking up peoples’ posts like this, especially when the poster appears to be a faculty member. The way you criticize people is demonstrative of your low educational attainment. You should reply to the posts in whole, as is done in article reviews for journals. The method you use intimates pettiness and small-mindedness. Although this is a bulletin board and not a journal, your posts reflect negatively upon the instructors at this school. While your message might be right, the manner in which you express it will loose many followers. Perhaps your instructors are afraid to tell you this, but this one is not."

Do not confuse Little Seeker with Litle Sister. We are not one and the same. Little Sister likes the way truth4usm breaks up the long postings the way she does. Further, Little Sister would never tell someone they have a "low educational attainment" - would not even suggest that to a high school dropout.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Little Seeker
" Please tell me you are not serious? There is a great distinction between signed newspaper columns and anonymous bulletin board posts. What instructor would use a bulletin board post in class for purposes of demonstration? I know have I just completely changed this thread's topic, but I was shocked by the statement above."

Absolutely 100 per cent NOT SERIOUS! I thought the idea of using Parker's letter was idiotic. Once again my sarcasm exceeds me. Sorry.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Little Sister
"Further, Little Sister would never tell someone they have a "low educational attainment" - would not even suggest that to a high school dropout. "

That is not the way I read the post. The fact that he used the word “attainment” suggests that he was acknowledging she had some education. We all have different levels of education, most of which are marked by our age. By the time this student is the age of the poster you are referring too, she will have just as much knowledge and experience as he does. Right now though, it is very clear on this board who the students are and who the faculty are. That is the way I read his post. I also think it is admirable that someone is trying to raise the quality of these posts to at least a semi-level of a journal article. I don't mean to take the fun out of this bulletin board, but some of the posts here do get out of hand. I myself have been taken to task by several students on this board.

Personally, I find that when posts get broken into pieces, like the one in question, the chances increase that something is taken out of context. In fact, I had to go back and try to find the original post to make sure we were talking about the same thing. I would rather the posts not be broken up if you are going to reply to the whole thing.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

By the way. I did not mean we cannot learn anything from our students. Of course we can; but I daresay our students can still learn alot from us.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

The tiniest bit of attention and/or research would reveal that Truth and AmLitChick could not possibly be the same person. Truth has been very open about who she is and where she is (a doctoral student but working at Vanderbilt) while ALC is on campus.

Frankly I prefer having only the relevant portion of a post quoted, as long as care is taken to maintain context. The very long posts eat up a lot of room on the board when they are quoted several times.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
" That is not the way I read the post. The fact that he used the word “attainment” suggests that he was acknowledging she had some education. We all have different levels of education, most of which are marked by our age. By the time this student is the age of the poster you are referring too, she will have just as much knowledge and experience as he does. Right now though, it is very clear on this board who the students are and who the faculty are. That is the way I read his post. I also think it is admirable that someone is trying to raise the quality of these posts to at least a semi-level of a journal article. I don't mean to take the fun out of this bulletin board, but some of the posts here do get out of hand. I myself have been taken to task by several students on this board. Personally, I find that when posts get broken into pieces, like the one in question, the chances increase that something is taken out of context. In fact, I had to go back and try to find the original post to make sure we were talking about the same thing. I would rather the posts not be broken up if you are going to reply to the whole thing. "

Online Prof,

Everything you say may be true. Nonetheless, I got the distinct feeling that truth4usm was being "spoken down to." Like a teacher might speak to a 3rd grader. Or like a parent might lecture to their teenager. Little Sister still feels that identifying the specific portion of a posting saves lots of time and reduces the likelihood of a lenghty and cumbersome reply.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"

Author: not bitter Date: 2 hr, 4 min. agoViews: 48

| Quote |RE: what happened
<SNIP>
I know a teacher at Jefferson Davis Community College who used Parker’s letter in one of her public-relations-type classes to show students an example of “what not to do.”
"

Y'all can think what you want about this post, but I'd like to point out that "Jefferson Davis Community College" is in Brewton, Alabama. Why one of their instructors might be using Parker's letter in a "public-relations-type class" is beyond me. At best, the controversies at USM would be non-issues to most students there.

Of course, we assume that "not bitter" was referring to "Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College, Jefferson Davis Campus." Given that particular point of accuracy, we may choose to assume that the other stuff is true.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Online Prof
"By the time this student is the age of the poster you are referring too, she will have just as much knowledge and experience as he does. Right now though, it is very clear on this board who the students are and who the faculty are."

Online Prof,

Pardon me for editing your posting, Online Prof, but I wish to address only the two sentences I have cited above. I do not wish to unduly prolong the break in this thread, but I am somewhat confused. Are you suggesting that the poster (little seeker) is a faculty member and that the recipient (AmLitChick) is a graduate student? If that is not what you are saying, please ignore this reply. If that is what you are saying, then let me respectfully suggest that graduate students are also generally regarded as colleagues. That's an important part of graduate training. At least in my discipline. When I first read little seeker's posting, I thought it was from some newly surfaced troll.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

Thank you, Little Sister, for bringing up the point of graduate students as colleagues. I have always had my graduate students call me by my first name, and I treat them with the respect due to them. I was in a department where this generally wasn't practiced at USM, but it is practiced at the fantastic university where I now teach.

Permalink · Date: Jul 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Swan Song
"Thank you, Little Sister, for bringing up the point of graduate students as colleagues. I have always had my graduate students call me by my first name, and I treat them with the respect due to them. I was in a department where this generally wasn't practiced at USM, but it is practiced at the fantastic university where I now teach."

Swan, the first name basis thing has always been debated. It seems to be a matter of individual preference. I never encouraraged it (I actually discouraged it) but many of the other faculty members (especially the younger faculty members) did encourage their graduate students to call them by their first name. If you do go that route, be sure you do not lose your objectivity (e.g., be sure you can still vote them out of the program if necessary). Little Sister is not as tough as she sounds. It's just that she has seen some graduate students get a little too close to their mentor, and it all started on a first name basis. Good luck at the fantastic university where you now teach! I envy you.