quote:

---

Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
" Regarding this discussion of what title to use in addressing a college professor . . . If the professor is a male, the title "Mr." is always proper. If you examine the catalog of many wurl' class universities, the term "Dr." is never used. The term "Mr." is always correct, whether one is addressing a college professor with a Ph.D., a physician with an M.D., or a elementary school dropout. I am aware, of course, that many physicians flinch when addressed as "Mr." - but it is totally proper. I recall that when I was once responsible for preparing the door signs in a department at a wurl' class university, even the physical plant deparment, responsible for actually making the signs, did not place the term "Dr." thereon, even though they knew for sure that each member in the department held the Ph.D.  As an aside, I find it interesting that lawyers who hold the doctor of juriprudence degree, by virtue of which they would most certainly be eligible to be called "Dr.," are nonetheless addressed as "Mr."  It doesn't really matter whether students call me Professor, Dr., or Mr. But I would most certainly not insist they call me by the title Doctor. When I was a new Ph.D. (many years ago), I naively had my bank check prepared with the title "Dr." I quickly realized how pompous that was, and immediately corrected it. A rose by any other name . . . . .  "

---

I've always liked "Professor" but I know people that say that is a job title not a degree earned - agree with you on the lawyer thing - that's always bugged me.  Two peripherally related issues.  I was once told that in the anglican tradition, a priest to whom you might address a letter as "The most reverend..." should never be called "Reverend..." and although it is commonly done, it is not proper.  Also, a catholic or episcopal priest who may be called "Father" is undoubtedly male.  Does an episcopal priest, by definition, have a doctorate of divinity?  If so, then the title of "Doctor..." works for females - but what if there's not a doctorate?  I have heard other protestant ministers called "Doctor", "Pastor", or even "Preacher" but not "Rector" or "Minister".  The Jewish "Rabbi" seems to work as both title and job description regardless of gender.  Is there correct nomenclature for all of this?  First Ant, would you opt for "Mr."  when unsure in the case of a male religious?  What about female?  Rock & Ewe, I'm just adding to the free flow, hope you don't mind.

I was told by my wise graduate advisor at Western Kentucky that the lower the caliber of the school, the more "doctor-crazy" it was and the touchier the faculty were about their titles.  Then when I went to Vanderbilt, no one in English used "Dr." in referring to themselves, though some students used it.  It was generally "Professor" or "Mr."  I think there was a slight tendency to use Professor more for female faculty, not sure why.  I was addressed as Professor a few times, but would correct the students, since I wasn't sure adjuncts should use that title. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by: LVN
"I was told by my wise graduate advisor at Western Kentucky that the lower the caliber of the school, the more "doctor-crazy" it was and the touchier the faculty were about their titles.  Then when I went to Vanderbilt, no one in English used "Dr." in referring to themselves . . ."

Thank you, LVN, for helping me make the point about the vanity of using the term "Dr." in an academic settings! I would have predictred that Vanderbilt faculty would shun that title. (My, these postings sure drifted far from the original thread title, didn't they?)

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Real Old Timer
"My adviser said he preferred the title "Mr." to "Dr." because it at least implied virility."

---

Sounds like my kind of world, Buckaroo.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Real Old Timer
"My adviser said he preferred the title "Mr." to "Dr." because it at least implied virility.  But that was long ago, and in a galaxy far away."

---

It's been a looooong time since I checked, but I recall many moons ago looking at a bulletin from Harvard University. Unless the faculty member was a physician, s/he was listed as "Mr." or "Ms."

That bastion of style & grammatical correctness, the Clarion-Ledger followed this practice for a number of years as well.

Later, I found it somewhat funny, because the U.S. Bureau of Census doesn't consider an MD to be a terminal degree. Only PhD's & EdD's are "terminal" in the eyes of the gummint.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Invictus
"I might add that the only people that I require to address me as "Doctor" are physicians. <EVEN MORE OFF-TOPIC> To any physicians who read this: We know what kind of money you're making. We see the houses you live in. We see the kinds of cars you drive. So, why don't you spring for some magazines for the waiting room that were printed since 1955? </EVEN MORE OFF-TOPIC>"

---

Invictus, what a great response!!! I needed something to tickle the funny bones today!! I totally agree.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"Thank you, LVN, for helping me make the point about the vanity of using the term "Dr." in an academic settings! I would have predictred that Vanderbilt faculty would shun that title. (My, these postings sure drifted far from the original thread title, didn't they?)"

---

I can vouch that, yes, we call professors "Professor" at Vandy.  No one refers to professors as "Dr."  I address all my faculty colleagues here by their first names (but I'm not a student here--I'm a staff member).

I thought it a bit odd at first, too, since I was used to calling professors "Dr." at USM (even as a staff member).  Interesting to see what others have to say about this. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Invictus
"I might add that the only people that I require to address me as "Doctor" are physicians."

---

Invictus, yours has to be the funniest statement ever posted on the message board. There should be a special award for you. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Emma
"And then there's the Ed.D. and Ph.D issue. . . . Lots of folks remain very sensitive about this."

---

< CUES UP BOB DYLAN'S "DRIFTING TOO FAR FROM SHORE">

Don't get me started, Emma!

I've actually seen a few people (including one college president) who used the full title, "Dr. I. M. Eatnupwifmyself, Ed.D."

You'd think people of a certain age would remember that a 60's show's title wasn't Dr. Marcus Welby M.D.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: Rose
"I was once told that in the anglican tradition, a priest to whom you might address a letter as "The most reverend..." should never be called "Reverend..." and although it is commonly done, it is not proper.  Also, a catholic or episcopal priest who may be called "Father" is undoubtedly male.  Does an episcopal priest, by definition, have a doctorate of divinity?  If so, then the title of "Doctor..." works for females - but what if there's not a doctorate?. . .Is there correct nomenclature for all of this?  "

---

Well, as long as this thread is wandering and if my years of religious training and instruction from a mother who seemed to have swallowed her copy of Amy Vanderbilt don't fail me, I might as well jump in with the etiquette lesson and VERY trivial information for the day. Hey, maybe that can be a new award!

You're right: In the angelican and episcopal traditions, "reverend" is an adjective and not a noun. It is used in formal written address and would be "The Reverend Marty Johnson" (never Reverend Johnson; if you don't use the full name, it's Reverend Mr. Johnson or Reverend Dr. Johnson as the case may be). "Reverend" is a title associated with ordination -- either a master of divinity (M.Div) or a doctorate of ministry (D.Min.). A doctorate of divinity (D.D. or D.Div) is an honorary degree -- only these folk are addressed as The Reverend Dr. Michelle Faulks.

The "Most", "Very", & "Right" part of the formal title is tanamount to the position the cleric holds in the church. "The Reverend" is the appropriate title for a rector or vicar; "The Very Reverend" is the proper title for a dean (e.g., head of a cathedral, elected official to preside over diocesian convocations, etc); "The Right Reverend" is the title for a bishop; and "The Most Reverend" is the title for the archbishop. Seems to me there is also a "Very Right Reverend," but that title is escaping me at the moment.

Male clerics usually are referred to as "Father" in conversation, and female clerics usually are called "Mother" in conversation although these naming conventions may depend of personal preference, area of the country, etc. "Father" & "Mother" are replaced by Bishop, Canon, Vicar, etc, depending on the position held.

Now, aren't you sorry you asked?