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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
Post Info TOPIC: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
LVN

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RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
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LVN is a codger-in-training and just generally dislikes the entire first-name mania that has swept America the past couple of decades or so.  Hates for doctors, students, salespeople, etc. to call her by her first name.  This practice is somewhat redeemed by the charming Southern custom of calling people "Miss" or "Mr." plus the first name, though this would not work in academia.  Several years ago LVN was taken to England and was delirious with joy at being addressed as "Madame" everywhere.


Professors should be called Professor or Dr. by students at least until after the wedding.



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foot soldier

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On the "whether they should call you by your first name question" here is my suggested reading:

Emith Toth, Ms. Mentor's Impeccable Advice for Women in Academia (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1997), pp. 85-88.

Gentlemen might also find some of this advice useful.

It concludes, "Once you're over forty, you can go ahead ad tell your classes, 'Call me Celeste.' But most students, especially the younger ones, won't. After all, you're the age of their parents.

You can continue to have them call you Dr. Cerebral, as they've been doing for years. Or--in honor of your great wisdom, and powerful presence--you can have them call you the title Ms. Mentor prefers:

YOUR MAJESTY."

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foot soldier

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Sorry, that's Emily Toth. It's too early in the morning.

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Online Prof

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By the way. I did not mean we cannot learn anything from our students.  Of course we can; but I daresay our students can still learn alot from us.



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Online Prof

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Author: Online Prof

Date: 40 min, 20 sec. ago
Views: 18


| Quote |RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members



By the way. I did not mean we cannot learn anything from our students.  Of course we can; but I daresay our students can still learn alot from us.


I did not post this a second time. Either the webmaster is moving things around or someone else is playing a game. Of course, I did post it elsewhere yesterday, so I guess it does not matter. It looks like my words are all the same.

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Invicuts

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RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter member
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quote:
Originally posted by: Swan Song
"Thank you, Little Sister, for bringing up the point of graduate students as colleagues. I have always had my graduate students call me by my first name, and I treat them with the respect due to them. I was in a department where this generally wasn't practiced at USM, but it is practiced at the fantastic university where I now teach."


Although my teaching career was spent teaching undergrads, I had a standing rule: any student who passed my class was on a first name basis with me. Until that point, it was "title + last name". When I originally started that, I mentioned it in September & promptly forgot about it. Within 10 minutes of posting my final grades (yes, we could do that back then), there were students traipsing through my office calling me "Invictus". It was a pretty big deal for them.

Interestingly, there are members of my graduate committee that, 20 years later) I still address as "Doctor ..."

I can certainly understand the "grad-student-as-colleague" concept. When the teacher & student progress to that point, it really is a matter of "working with a colleague", because that's what the teacher expects the student to soon become.



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Online Prof

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RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Y'all can think what you want about this post, but I'd like to point out that "Jefferson Davis Community College" is in Brewton, Alabama. Why one of their instructors might be using Parker's letter in a "public-relations-type class" is beyond me. At best, the controversies at USM would be non-issues to most students there. Of course, we assume that "not bitter" was referring to "Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College, Jefferson Davis Campus." Given that particular point of accuracy, we may choose to assume that the other stuff is true. "

Or she might be a recently graduated Ph.D., which means she very well could be in Alabama J I will not say anymore on that due to respect for her privacy.  I am not insulting you, or at least I do not mean to, but if you cannot understand why she would use it in a public relations class, it is because you are either not an instructor or because you do not know anything about public relations.


 


Honestly, I cannot even remember where I wrote my original post now, and it has been broken up so many times that I am a little lost.  The way I remember my original post, though, is that I was asking some other poster not to confuse all the USM faculty with the people posting here, who are mostly non-faculty, former staff members, and students.


 


I am not sure how that point got lost in all these replies, but I do notice that only a few select parts are being replied to and then those replies are getting replied to. It seems to me the whole thread, which I think I started, has now been completely distorted.


 


I suspect that is what some of you wanted though. J



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truth4usm/AH

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quote:




Originally posted by: little seeker
" Truth4USM, no matter how many names you use on this board, we will always be able to recognize your posts.


Uh, little seeker, this one isn't me.  Anyone who knows me knows that Am Lit is not my area in English. 


You have got to stop breaking up peoples’ posts like this, especially when the poster appears to be a faculty member.


Eh? 


The way you criticize people is demonstrative of your low educational attainment. 


Double Eh? 


You should reply to the posts in whole, as is done in article reviews for journals. 


I didn't do this, so I don't know what you are talking about.


The method you use intimates pettiness and small-mindedness. Although this is a bulletin board and not a journal, your posts reflect negatively upon the instructors at this school. 


Wow, you really have an axe to grind with me!  What's your problem, dude? (or dudette).


While your message might be right, the manner in which you express it will loose many followers. Perhaps your instructors are afraid to tell you this, but this one is not."


Perhaps if you learned how to spell "loose," you might have a higher educational attainment.






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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"

You should reply to the posts in whole, as is done in article reviews for journals. 



I didn't do this, so I don't know what you are talking about."


I hope that my sarcasm shines through here.


Sorry, if you don't like the way I break up posts, then just skip over MY posts.  If you hadn't noticed, the AAUP message board is no journal.  It's a MESSAGE BOARD, for crying out loud!


Get a sense of humor, PUH-LEEZE!! 



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Party Animal

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quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"The journal to which it has been accepted is far more important that the length of the manuscript. In my discipline, for instance, one article in a journal like Science is more significant than several in the Journal of Smoke and Mirrors (although several years ago I was unsuccessful in communicating that to my dean). Another thing that bothered me a great deal is that the dean at that time wanted an article to "count" only when actually appeared in print.  I, on the other hand, was accustomed to counting the article when it had undergone the mandated peer review, after all necessary corrections or modifications had been made, when the manuscript was fully accepted by the Editor, and when it could be cited as In Press on the faculty member's resume. I saw no need to wait a year or more until the article was actually out "in print" to credit it. "
I'm not sure when it is the most appropriate time to "credit" a manuscript but I do know that there are at least three times to celebrate one - upon submission, upon acceptance, and upon publication!

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foot soldier

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Geez, maybe it is time to start a "who gets attacked most" award! truth wins every time!

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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"  We all have different levels of education, most of which are marked by our age. By the time this student is the age of the poster you are referring too, she will have just as much knowledge and experience as he does. Right now though, it is very clear on this board who the students are and who the faculty are.  "

How do you know how old I am???  Or little seeker for that matter???




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Anna

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quote:





Originally posted by: little seeker
"Truth4USM, no matter how many names you use on this board, we will always be able to recognize your posts."


 


Little seeker,


Your posting brings up an important issue I have not seen previously mentioned on this message board. Namely, you seem to be suggesting that Truth4usm and AmLitChick are the same. I neither know nor care if that is true. But I am concerned that anyone who has reason to believe they know the identity of an anonmmous poster would attempt to "unmask" them publically on this message board. The rules of the board allow postings under a Nom d'Aplomb. In view of the current state of fear which seems to exist, some of the posters have very good reason to post anonymousy. I believe that I, too, know the real names of some of the posters; but I would never blow their cover.



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Invictus

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RE: RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter me
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Online Prof
"
Or she might be a recently graduated Ph.D., which means she very well could be in Alabama J I will not say anymore on that due to respect for her privacy.  I am not insulting you, or at least I do not mean to, but if you cannot understand why she would use it in a public relations class, it is because you are either not an instructor or because you do not know anything about public relations.
"


No offense taken, but I assure you (1) I have been an instructor, (2) I have been an administrator, & (3) I work on a daily basis with public relations.

Parker's letter might have been marginally applicable to a class discussion of persuasive writing, but there are far better examples (good & bad) in corporate propaganda.

It's a matter of opinion & we can agree to disagree on this one.

I think the instructor had another axe to grind entirely, which is in itself a good lesson for "public-relations-type classes."


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Little Seeker

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RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"The tiniest bit of attention and/or research would reveal that Truth and AmLitChick could not possibly be the same person.  ........ Frankly I prefer having only the relevant portion of a post quoted, as long as care is taken to maintain context.  The very long posts eat up a lot of room on the board when they are quoted several times."

I do not know why you think a full-time faculty member would have time to do such a thing as research the possible identity of some bulletin board poster. Is it because you are not a faculty member? Have you ever been faculty?


 


I was very careful with my post. I made sure both names of both posters were in the post. In fact, I replied to AmerLitChick’s post. Both AmerLitChick and Truth4USM do the same thing. They break up posts and go after a few sentences to critique in lieu of criticizing the main thesis. The consequences are that within a matter of minutes the original purpose of the post is completely warped and misrepresented because people start replying to those break-ups. Look at what has happened to this thread. All of you think I was saying that Truth4USM and AmerLitChick was the same person.


 


Also, going after a post sentence by sentence just seems shallow to me, and let us be realistic about this. We all know many posters on this board change their names from time to time. I have no real problems with that though because I give more emphasis to content rather than to the author of some bulletin board post.


 


I completely agree with what you said about some posts being far too long to quote. Therefore I will change my suggestion somewhat. If the post is more than two standard paragraphs, like this one, it should be broken up if replied to. However, they should at the very least go after the whole paragraph rather than one specific sentence. Some people here do like to write alot. I guess that is why I did not think about your idea first. Long posts should be broken up, but the posters should take great care not to distort a faculty member’s overall view.



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Former Executive

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quote:
Originally posted by: Anna
"Little seeker, Your posting brings up an important issue I have not seen previously mentioned on this message board. Namely, you seem to be suggesting that Truth4usm and AmLitChick are the same. I neither know nor care if that is true. But I am concerned that anyone who has reason to believe they know the identity of an anonmmous poster would attempt to "unmask" them publically on this message board. The rules of the board allow postings under a Nom d'Aplomb. In view of the current state of fear which seems to exist, some of the posters have very good reason to post anonymousy. I believe that I, too, know the real names of some of the posters; but I would never blow their cover. "

In general, I agree with you.  The downside is that some posters with very specific personal agendas can post using many different names, spew as much nastiness as possible and create the appearance of a situation that is not real - enough of that and perhaps it becomes real.  Sometimes, the heart and soul of manufactured reality is fiction.


Are any of us pure?  I don't know.  I have an agenda.  I believe it's an honorable one but maybe I'm wrong.  I use multiple names but I don't start threads and talk to myself with them.  I don't use them to reinforce myself on a position that I have taken.  Other posters do those things. 


USM is a terrible place right now.  It is so horribly mismanaged from the top and so petty, self-focused and short-sighted from below.  I don't know that it is "fixable".  Good people are going to continue to leave - who can blame them?  We have played on this board to vent, to share ideas, to provide information, to support each other, to entertain each other, to grieve, to prop up but, increasingly, we have done so with malice, vindictiveness, and desperation.  There have been opposing pulls to try and make USM better and to try and expose all that is wrong with it - all the while pretending normalcy and treading water in the midst of chaos.  Very rarely has there been forward thinking positive suggestions or backward rememberences of small successes.


I have held very senior industry positions and taught at several universities, seen both corporate and university politics played out by the best, and I have never encountered, or even heard of, a situation this bad.  Have no doubt, it starts at the top.  Shelby Thames is responsible and it becomes more and more likely that Shelby is going to stay in power for the rest of his term.  His closest associates think he'll be in the dome for another term beyond that.  His closest enemies think that a more seasoned, better qualified, less controversial Tim Hudson will come back from Texas equipped to take over the top slot in two years. 


Either way, nothing will really change.  The reason for that?  No one really wants it to.  If the faculty were truly cohesive, well-organized, and ready to act for the good of the university, the dome could be cleaned out by January.


 



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Newgirl

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about b
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quote:
Originally posted by: Former Executive
"
... If the faculty were truly cohesive, well-organized, and ready to act for the good of the university, the dome could be cleaned out by January.
 "


Former Executive, I would love to hear how you think the faculty could accomplish such an objective. The only thing I can imagine you mean would be a faculty strike/walk out/blue flu etc.

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Former Executive

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quote:
Originally posted by: Newgirl
" Former Executive, I would love to hear how you think the faculty could accomplish such an objective. The only thing I can imagine you mean would be a faculty strike/walk out/blue flu etc. "
The short version, and that is all there can be right now, is to create a "situation".  People act predictably.

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truth4usm/AH

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RE: RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
Permalink Closed


quote:




Originally posted by: Little Seeker
" I do not know why you think a full-time faculty member would have time to do such a thing as research the possible identity of some bulletin board poster. Is it because you are not a faculty member? Have you ever been faculty?"


First, if you were able to take the time to think about the tone and style of my posts and the tone and style of AmLitChick's posts in order to find the similarities, then most board members here would rightly assume that you would have noted the obvious differences in our board personalities.  I would advise you to do a bit more research before you make these baseless accusations.


Second, you made a direct statement that you believed I was using other names on this board and implied that I was posting as AmLitChick.  You said, and I quote:


"Truth4USM, no matter how many names you use on this board, we will always be able to recognize your posts."


I was very careful with my post.


 


No, you were not.


 


Both AmerLitChick and Truth4USM do the same thing. They break up posts and go after a few sentences to critique in lieu of criticizing the main thesis.


 


It's called "replying to specific points."


 


The consequences are that within a matter of minutes the original purpose of the post is completely warped and misrepresented because people start replying to those break-ups. Look at what has happened to this thread. All of you think I was saying that Truth4USM and AmerLitChick was the same person.


 


And you weren't saying that?


Also, going after a post sentence by sentence just seems shallow to me, and let us be realistic about this.


Shallow?  I prefer to think of it as thorough.


I completely agree with what you said about some posts being far too long to quote. Therefore I will change my suggestion somewhat. If the post is more than two standard paragraphs, like this one, it should be broken up if replied to.


And you received your credentials as Board Post Monitor from where?


Long posts should be broken up, but the posters should take great care not to distort a faculty member’s overall view.


People can go back and read the original post if they need to get the overall view.  Give me a break with all of these rules and admonitions to post a certain way!  Isn't this what democracy is all about?  Can't I post the way I want or has SFT infiltrated this message board? 


And please remember that this board is not just for faculty members.


 


 



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Reluctant pessimist

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'Either way, nothing will really change.  The reason for that?  No one really wants it to.  If the faculty were truly cohesive, well-organized, and ready to act for the good of the university, the dome could be cleaned out by January.'


 


For the one who posted this, could I please ask what, more than a 430-32 vote of no confidence, would represent "cohesiveness" on the part of the faculty?  It that kind of indictment of Shelboo couldn't win the day with the college board, nothing can.  This administration is like a virus, for which there is no cure.  It will simply have to run its course, and our only hope is that when all its virulence is spent, there will still be something left of the ashes upon which to rebuild.



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AmLitChick

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Wow! I certainly didn't mean to start such a furor by referring to specific points in Online Prof's post--and I am not trying to start it up again.  I just prefer to read posts that refer to specific points.  I didn't set out to destroy context.  The whole post is, after all, at the beginning of the thread and it strikes me as unnecessary to keep repeating it.  That's just my aesthetic preference. 


It's interesting that this has evolved, or perhaps devolved, into a sub-discussion of cohesiveness because that issue is what prompted my (perhaps a bit intemperate) original reply.  Is it not a counterproductive distraction to waste time dividing ourselves?  Isn't that one of the administration's goals?  They seem to have created enough dissention and division without our helping them along.  After all, I may not agree with everything the alleged "bad apples" say, but I respect their right to say it and admire their guts for saying it.  And, as I said, I do think that the faculty needs good press right now. 


Okay, that's it.  No, wait--I only wish I spoke with the elegance and passion of Truth. 



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foot soldier

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RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter member
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Reluctant pessimist
"
For the one who posted this, could I please ask what, more than a 430-32 vote of no confidence, would represent "cohesiveness" on the part of the faculty?  If that kind of indictment of Shelboo couldn't win the day with the college board, nothing can.  rebuild."


Former Executive, thank you for recognizing how incredibly bad things really are. But I agree with pessimist--what else besides 430-32 can we do?


430

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Miles Long

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RE: RE: For "Not Bitter": post about bitter members
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
"On the "whether they should call you by your first name question" here is my suggested reading:

Emith Toth, Ms. Mentor's Impeccable Advice for Women in Academia (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1997), pp. 85-88.

It concludes, "Once you're over forty, you can go ahead ad tell your classes, 'Call me Celeste.' But most students, especially the younger ones, won't. After all, you're the age of their parents.

You can continue to have them call you Dr. Cerebral, as they've been doing for years. Or--in honor of your great wisdom, and powerful presence--you can have them call you the title Ms. Mentor prefers:

YOUR MAJESTY.""


In a class with online students I taught this past term, one of the students graciously emailed "how do you prefer to be addressed?".

I replied that I preferred "His holy exalted eminence", but few students would stick to that.

Honestly, in every single email from then on, he referred to me as "Holy Exalted Eminence". Sometimes he would abbreviate it to "HEE".

There's the old "I didn't spend 7 years in grad school so you could call me 'Mister'" line. I don't use that. I prefer Dr. or Professor, but after reading Carl Hiaasen's latest book, Skinny Dip, I don't think I'm going to insist on anyone calling me 'Doctor'.

In any case, I've found that the wardrobe has a direct effect. If I'm wearing a tie, they don't tend to call me by my first name. If I'm wearing either a hockey jersey or a Hawaiian Shirt (the two areas where my wardrobe is drifting), then I don't get "doc" as much.

Just an aside...


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TEE HEE

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quote:
Originally posted by: Miles Long
" In a class with online students I taught this past term, one of the students graciously emailed "how do you prefer to be addressed?".  ...  In any case, I've found that the wardrobe has a direct effect. If I'm wearing a tie, they don't tend to call me by my first name. If I'm wearing either a hockey jersey or a Hawaiian Shirt (the two areas where my wardrobe is drifting), then I don't get "doc" as much. Just an aside... "

You raise an important hypothetical question.  If you wear a Hawaiian shirt while teaching an on-line class, do you get doc'd?



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Confirmed Codger

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quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"LVN is a codger-in-training and just generally dislikes the entire first-name mania that has swept America the past couple of decades or so.  Hates for doctors, students, salespeople, etc. to call her by her first name.  This practice is somewhat redeemed by the charming Southern custom of calling people "Miss" or "Mr." plus the first name, though this would not work in academia."
Actually it does work in academia in the South.  My children grew up in college towns with university families and became used to calling people "Dr. Bill", "Dr. Mary".  It worked fine until they met a community friend who said "oh no, it's just Jeanne" to which child #2 responded to child #1  in a very loud (and somewhat disdainful) stage whisper "must not have earned her PhD!"

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Miles Long

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quote:
Originally posted by: TEE HEE
"
You raise an important hypothetical question.  If you wear a Hawaiian shirt while teaching an on-line class, do you get doc'd? "



Actually, the on-line students use my Hawaiian shirts at the beginning of the class to calibrate the color and contrast on their monitors.

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truth4usm/AH

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Hey, Miles!  Good to see you back here...even if you are wearing a hockey shirt.  I suppose certain new board members may start imposing a dress code on the board along with new rules for posting, so watch out! 

 


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truth4usm/AH

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quote:
Originally posted by: AmLitChick
" Okay, that's it.  No, wait--I only wish I spoke with the elegance and passion of Truth.  "
Thanks for the shout-out, AmLitChick.  I'm working on the elegance part (got lots of passion, though!).

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First Ant at the Picnic

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quote:
Originally posted by: Miles Long
"In a class with online students I taught this past term, one of the students graciously emailed "how do you prefer to be addressed.''

Regarding this discussion of what title to use in addressing a college professor . . . If the professor is a male, the title "Mr." is always proper. If you examine the catalog of many wurl' class universities, the term "Dr." is never used. The term "Mr." is always correct, whether one is addressing a college professor with a Ph.D., a physician with an M.D., or a elementary school dropout. I am aware, of course, that many physicians flinch when addressed as "Mr." - but it is totally proper. I recall that when I was once responsible for preparing the door signs in a department at a wurl' class university, even the physical plant deparment, responsible for actually making the signs, did not place the term "Dr." thereon, even though they knew for sure that each member in the department held the Ph.D.  As an aside, I find it interesting that lawyers who hold the doctor of juriprudence degree, by virtue of which they would most certainly be eligible to be called "Dr.," are nonetheless addressed as "Mr."  It doesn't really matter whether students call me Professor, Dr., or Mr. But I would most certainly not insist they call me by the title Doctor. When I was a new Ph.D. (many years ago), I naively had my bank check prepared with the title "Dr." I quickly realized how pompous that was, and immediately corrected it. A rose by any other name . . . . .


 



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The Rock

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Man, this thread is all over the place.  But that's okay - slow news days  can lead to this....

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