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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Back with a question concerning raises....
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Seeker

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Back with a question concerning raises....
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I have spent the last hour or so reading about the issue of raises. It seems you guys all really want raises, heck so do I, but you don't like merit raises.

Are you more against merit raises, or the way that Thames has given them out.

Because I will be honest, there are a number of faculty members at USM that we could never pay them what they are worth. But, at the same time there are some that I wouldn't give two nickles to.

I like merit raises, if they are given in a fair manner in which goals for obtaining those raises are clearly marked and obtainable.

Tell the board idiot what you think.

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ram

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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" Are you more against merit raises, or the way that Thames has given them out. . . . I like merit raises, if they are given in a fair manner in which goals for obtaining those raises are clearly marked and obtainable. "

Seeker--


I once worked as a production supervisor at a sheltered workshop.  We produced a tiny little switch for an electronics company.  We would do time and motion studies to see what the average able bodied worker could produce in one hour, then pay our disabled folks based on the standard set by the able bodied worker.  Everything was very measured and objective.


The problem I see (as an outsider) is that teaching does not lend itself to such objective measurement.  There is a lot of room for subjectivity by either management or consumer, giving rise to the potential for abuse; instead of the good professors getting the merit raises, the sycophants and toadies get the money.  Who can argue? No one's "merit" can be accurately measured.  Dana Thames gets a huge raise?  I might think it is because her daddy is president.  Nope, he says it is because she deserves it, being the great professor that she is.  Who can prove otherwise, and to whom would one prove it?  The president?



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Seeker

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Ok, we've established that the way that Thames gives merit raises is baseless and unfair. I agree with that wholeheartedly. But, dose that also mean that it couldn't be done under a different admin?

I mean surely the all good, all knowing Dr AKL would have given fair merit raises. Forgive the sarcasm.

I believe that merit raises could be given in a fair manner in the University setting. They can be given everywhere else.

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Eagle in Cairo, Egypt

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Merit pay in education has been a hot topic since the idea developed.  Do you base it on grades?  Well, that's not really fair.  In the K-12 world, you can't pick and choose your students.  In my experience, I have been assigned to classes that are mainly made up of students at the low end of the socio-economic scale.  Due to factors other than their brains, these kids do not perform well in school.  It is hard for them to value education when they have no books at home and in my cases, their parents have not graduated from high school.  I have no idea how merit raises would work at the university level.  There is more to teaching a university level course than grants.  My best professors at USM were not only scholars, but teachers.  How do you measure teaching fairly?  I'm sure just as I have traditionally been assigned to low performing students, there are professors who have also had this experience - been given all 100 level classes.  After all of this rambling, I have no idea what the answer is.  Merit pay in education will continue to be a hot topic.  If it IS cased on grants, what about professors who specialized in areas because of love of the subject?  Just because I love it, doesn't mean that government or private industry will value it. 

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ram

Date:
concerning raises....
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Sorry, Seeker, I did get distracted by the present situation.  By using DT as an example, I made it seem that she and daddy were the problem; they really are a specific example of a more general problem.  Merit raises are best applied when the raw material and the end product are fungible.  That was why I used electrical switches as my first example.  The pieces we assembled and the parts from which we assembled them were all the same.  Beginning to end, you could not tell one from the other (if they were assembled properly).  The only variable was the assembler, so the productivity of the assembler was easily measured.


Education is far more complex.  Every student differs coming into the process and leaving the process.  There are so many variables that will affect the student "in process" that it is near impossible to attribute success or failure to a single factor -- including a professor.


I am describing extremes for illustration. One can pre-test and post-test, and do things that I know nothing about to try to determine the merit of professors; but -- Roy Klumb's comparison and conclusion to the contrary notwithstanding -- students are not mass produced like sticks of lumber.



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foot soldier

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RE: Back with a question concerning raises....
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And I might add, there are lots of studies of student evaluations of teaching that show they can be scewed by all kinds of factors, including the teacher's age, gender, and appearance. Many terrible teachers are much beloved by their students, and many teachers who get terrible evaluations only come to be appreciated years later, when it is too late to fill out an evaluation. I am _not_ advocating not evaluting teachers, only being very careful interpreting student evaluations, and not using them as major factors in merit raises.

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asdf

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I don't know why determining the merit of a professor is so hard.  Look at the job description: teaching, research/creative activity, service (yes I know there is some other economic development thing, but I don't know anything about it and that seems unique to USM).  Next you develop a rubric that measures each one.  Teaching: a combination of teacher evaluations, average grade in class, and possibly an occasional peer review should suffice.  Research/Creative activity:  Number and quality of publications, presentations, grants, or performances.  I think the faculty in each department along with their dean should decide what is a reasonable expectation for the faculty and then people should be held to that standard.  Service:  Number and level of involvement in departmental, university, state, regional, and national committees, organizations, review panels, journal editor, etc.  Once again a consensus should be made and people held to that.


I don't think it is really that hard to measure the merit of a professor.  Are there good teachers that will not get merit raises, sure.  If a professor decides to not do all 3 parts of his/her job description (eg not publish), then you should be happy to have a job no matter how well you teach.  On the flip side, if you are a great researcher, but a horrible teacher (I am reminded of Nash in the movie Beautiful Mind) or refuse to do any service work, you should also be held accountable.


So a point to be made is that USM seems to only value the research part of the equation.  USM is a research university and therefore is going to favor research as opposed to a teaching college, which will favor teaching.  It is the nature of the school you are at.


I would like to point out that I said that the rubric for evaluation should be done at a department/college level.  Unfortunately, the provost and president's office will always have oversight.  In the ideal world, they would be in lock step with the college dean (maybe not, what if you had a bad dean and your provost was your only friend??).  I can give you examples when AKL overruled chair/dean recommendations.



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Big Bad Wolf

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quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
  I can give you examples when AKL overruled chair/dean recommendations."
I can even recall a time when the college dean overruled departmental merit raise recommendations - to such an extent that there was a negative correlation between the departmental recommendations and the dean's override. I know that for sure, because I computed the correlation. Fortunately, if memory serves me right, that dean became history after Fleming became president. The department chair at that time was frequently the "fall guy" for quite a few terribly inappropriate "overrides" made by that particular dean - including but not limited to merit raises.  

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