Preview numbers 7/8 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 8, 2004

Preview numbers 7/8

Date: Jul 8, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Passing through
"Preview was underwhelming today, with less than 300 total attending (Fr. & transfer students).
Low numbers are not good for the future health of this university, regardless of your feelings for the idiot in the dome."

Too bad these raises are based on the enrollment. The mid year raises will still be in effect even if enrollment drops.

I have an idea, but you may not like it since it isn’t original.

Maybe we can increase enrollment if we REPLACE UPPER MANAGEMENT.

Date: Jul 8, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
" ... I have an idea, but you may not like it since it isn’t original. Maybe we can increase enrollment if we REPLACE UPPER MANAGEMENT. "

Otherside:

I think that is a brilliant idea! A definite Win! Win! for the university and for the students!

Date: Jul 8, 2004

Will no-one rid me of this turbulent pres?

Date: Jul 8, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Henry II
"Will no-one rid me of this turbulent pres?"

You gotta love those liberal arts types!

Date: Jul 8, 2004

I've rid you of a pesky jack, joker, and queen. Can't you do anything for yourself?????

Date: Jul 8, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Passing through
Low numbers are not good for the future health of this university . . . . ."

Not necessarily. Unless one wants to be an enabler.

Date: Jul 8, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Passing through
"Preview was underwhelming today, with less than 300 total attending (Fr. & transfer students). Low numbers are not good for the future health of this university, regardless of your feelings for the idiot in the dome."

At least post accurate information. There were more than 300 at today's session.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

I know --

How many attended the preview?? You've said several times, in various threads, that the numbers others are reporting are wrong. So, I have two questions. (1) How many attended? (2) Where do you get your information?

Thanks! Eagle in Cairo, Egypt

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Passing through
"Preview was underwhelming today, with less than 300 total attending

May I ask what your source for this is? Anybody have a source for the numbers from last semester and the previous Fall?

Date: Jul 9, 2004

Let's not get bogged down in "head counts" alone. Quality is also important. Even if the numbers match counts from previous years, such data are of little importance if the student credentials are not up to par.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ewe
"Let's not get bogged down in "head counts" alone. Quality is also important. Even if the numbers match counts from previous years, such data are of little importance if the student credentials are not up to par. "

In discussing preview, this may be related, but does anyone know if the number of sections to CIE 099, ENG 099, MAT 099 and LS 101 have increased since last year. I noticed a larger amount of students being assigned to 099 courses over the summer preview sessions. Anyone else notice or care to respond?

Date: Jul 9, 2004

As discussed on here following the last Preview (July 1), we are looking too deeply into the picture here. Having worked every Preview and speaking for myself here, the total number of incoming freshman and transfers averaged to about 350 attendees yesterday.

Furthermore, in an effort to save everyone from having to read yet another thread on the meticulously and overly analyzed numbers regarding the next Preview, I am willing to bet that there will be close to maximum capacity (500) at the final Preview, next Thursday. Because that’s all that matters is numbers, right?

The quality of incoming students is of greater importance than numbers alone. Wouldn’t you agree?

Just my 2 cents.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Involved Student
"
The quality of incoming students is of greater importance than numbers alone. Wouldn?t you agree?

Just my 2 cents."

Which brings me back to my queston, does anyone know if the number of sections to CIE 099, ENG 099, MAT 099 and LS 101 have increased since last year. (I noticed in previews a larger amount of students being assigned to 099 courses)

GH

Date: Jul 9, 2004

I wish we could talk about that CIE class. Realize it was created in SFT's daughter's department. Look at the timing in that creation too.

Largest Pay Raise.

A MIDAS cash deal.

Peeeeee uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Date: Jul 9, 2004

Emma,

Please share more............

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"I wish we could talk about that CIE class. Realize it was created in SFT's daughter's department. Look at the timing in that creation too. Largest Pay Raise. A MIDAS cash deal. Peeeeee uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu"

What are you talking about? The CIE class was created many years ago by IHL.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

please emma share your troubles. the IHL mandated that students having ACT scores below a certain level take remedial courses. this includes english, math, and reading (maybe others but i don't know). USM had to create or use existing courses to meet the IHL mandate. CIE created such a course for reading which was approved, I assume, by the appropriate councils. if your have troubles with this then make your accusations a lot more specific and on-point. check the IHL minutes for the mandates!

Date: Jul 9, 2004

Informed Student, I will take you up on your bet as only 264 are signed up for this Thursdays preview. I sure hope enrollment is up and USM prospers, but I understand only 475 attended Preview 1 which was supposedly the highest attended session. In the past Previews 1-5 had 500 students. Also Informed Student can you give us an enrollment count for Summer? I understand we are down 8% and judging from parking, seems reasonable.

Any student making 16 or below in the subtest areas of the ACT must take 99 courses in English, Math, Reading and if (2 or 3?) remedial courses are required they must take LS 101.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: flyingundertheradar
"Any student making 16 or below in the subtest areas of the ACT must take 99 courses in English, Math, Reading and if (2 or 3?) remedial courses are required they must take LS 101."

I am aware of the ACT of 16 or below, my question deals with the quality of students USM is admitting. Are we admitting "more" students who do not meet admission requirements to increase enrollment, and are there "more" CIE 099, ENG 099, etc. sections?

Date: Jul 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
" I am aware of the ACT of 16 or below, my question deals with the quality of students USM is admitting. Are we admitting "more" students who do not meet admission requirements to increase enrollment, and are there "more" CIE 099, ENG 099, etc. sections?"

Green Hornet, I don't know if there are more 99 sections this fall than in previous years, but here is what I found by checking the SOAR link on the USM home page (this is public information, follow the guest link to the fall schedule of classes):

CIE 99 - 5 sections, 4 are full - total enrollment for all sections is 114

ENG 99 - 7 sections, 3 are full - total enrollment for all sections is 73

MAT 99 - 7 sections, 3 are full - total enrollment for all sections is 164

(assuming the enrollment numbers include the most recent Preview session)

Date: Jul 10, 2004

Googler, Thanks alot

Date: Jul 10, 2004

I have to tell you that in the advent of the Mississippi Virtual Community College and the fact that you can get your entire associate's degree online--including speech classes--more and more students are going to community college straight out of high school. That should be considered too if you are thinking about why numbers are down . . . .if they are down significantly. Check this out:

http://www.msvcc.org/

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Confused
"I have to tell you that in the advent of the Mississippi Virtual Community College and the fact that you can get your entire associate's degree online--including speech classes--more and more students are going to community college straight out of high school. That should be considered too if you are thinking about why numbers are down . . . .if they are down significantly. Check this out: http://www.msvcc.org/"

Got to love the on-line lab courses (NOT!).

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Confused
"I have to tell you that in the advent of the Mississippi Virtual Community College and the fact that you can get your entire associate's degree online--including speech classes--more and more students are going to community college straight out of high school. That should be considered too if you are thinking about why numbers are down . . . .if they are down significantly. Check this out:
http://www.msvcc.org/"

This is one of the reasons why more and more people have "degrees" but fewer and fewer are educated. Mississippi will reap the rewards of these "investments" in the next 10 - 20 years.

I always wondered if Louisiana, Alabama and Arkansas encourage MS do these thing to make them look good.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

"This is one of the reasons why more and more people have degrees but fewer and fewer are educated."

No. A class is only as good as how much effort and dedication an instructor puts into it. I have found that those who criticize online classes are those who did not grow up with the internet and those who are struggling to keep up with academic trends. There is a convention here at USM to oppose new things.

The next generation of professors at USM will be more open to technology though. For example, in the three online classes I teach, I tape my lectures and then put them online. Students have to listen to these lectures and send me summaries of them to show they actually listened. I also make them take two tests on campus rather than online. I then grade their tests, scan them, and send them back via email in picture format. All of this allows them to have input from the instructor the old-fashioned way. That is, they still see the instructor’s handwritten comments and still hear the instructor’s voice.

When it comes down to it, what is the difference between getting educated online and getting educated in the standard classroom? The only difference is the instructor.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
" This is one of the reasons why more and more people have "degrees" but fewer and fewer are educated. Mississippi will reap the rewards of these "investments" in the next 10 - 20 years. I always wondered if Louisiana, Alabama and Arkansas encourage MS do these thing to make them look good."

Evidently Mississippi has a instituted a number of projects which will help keep its disadvantaged citizens disadvantaged. One is programs like the on-line college consortium described here. Another is the establishment of casinos. USM seems to want to participate in both. My view of the casinos has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. It pertains solely to the economic plunder to which disadvantaged Mississippi citizens are being subjected.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Anna
"Evidently Mississippi has a instituted a number of projects which will help keep its disadvantaged citizens disadvantaged... "

Mississippi's recent Medicaid scandal, which made national news for disqualifying unprecedented numbers of needy from receiving benefits, is a prime example of keeping its disadvantaged citizens disadvantaged. Heck, let's just let them die off!

But to get back a bit closer to the original subject of this thread, if both quantity and quality of USM's incoming freshmen are down, the reason may not be only the disrepute into which USM has fallen during the current administration; it is also likely that fewer and fewer of Mississippi's high school graduates are ready for college.

Mississippians, including those not necessarily economically disadvantaged, suffer the disadvantage of poor educational opportunities. SFT's grand delusion of USM as a world-class university can never become a reality until support -- both financial and intellectual -- for Mississippi's schools makes a quantum leap. Where is such support -- of either kind -- to be found? Certainly not from the casinos. And those who see online education as the answer don't seem to be able to see very far beyond "content delivery," which is only the surface level -- one might even say the facade -- of true education.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: online prof
""This is one of the reasons why more and more people have degrees but fewer and fewer are educated."
No. A class is only as good as how much effort and dedication an instructor puts into it. I have found that those who criticize online classes are those who did not grow up with the internet and those who are struggling to keep up with academic trends. There is a convention here at USM to oppose new things.
The next generation of professors at USM will be more open to technology though. For example, in the three online classes I teach, I tape my lectures and then put them online. Students have to listen to these lectures and send me summaries of them to show they actually listened. I also make them take two tests on campus rather than online. I then grade their tests, scan them, and send them back via email in picture format. All of this allows them to have input from the instructor the old-fashioned way. That is, they still see the instructor’s handwritten comments and still hear the instructor’s voice.

When it comes down to it, what is the difference between getting educated online and getting educated in the standard classroom? The only difference is the instructor.
"

Online Prof, it sounds like you give a good course online. I guess it depends on the instructor and the subject matter. My area requires a lot of math. Very few students I run into appear have even high school ability with math. They would never accomplish anything in an online class requiring high school math skills.

I was wondering the age range of your online students. I seems to me that online courses require more mature students than the average that I'm seeing.

My comment also was directed at the future online Ph.D programs I hear about.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: flyingundertheradar
" Any student making 16 or below in the subtest areas of the ACT must take 99 courses in English, Math, Reading and if (2 or 3?) remedial courses are required they must take LS 101."

and the number of students taking these courses is way up. Are these classes actually helping our students? It just goes to show that standards at USM are falling way below the radar. These classes ought to really matter if we are going to offer them.