Support Jeff Bower-Talking Points - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 7, 2004

Support Jeff Bower-Talking Points

Date: Jul 7, 2004

Don't believe that everyone who has supported Thames is anti-Bower. I supported Thames for a long time as well, but I no longer support him. And, it's not just because of the Bower situation. I think Thames has done some good things at USM, but he's gone too far and is now out of controle.

Eagle Talk had a poll a few weeks ago and almost 75% of the fans there support Bower getting a new, longer contract. I am sure you will find that on any message board (including this one) there is a 10% idiot factor. Meaning that 10% of the regular posters are idiots. Eagle Talk is no different, but it's much better than it was a couple of years ago. The new owners actually know how a message board should be run.

Just becasue someone used to support Thames, that dosen't mean they still do. Just because someone is pro-Thames it dosen't mean they are anti-Bower. But, very soon everyone will have to take sides.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

I support Jeff Bower and always have. I know the entire family very well and can't think of better people. SFT doesn't understand ethical behavior.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

From a faculty perspective the key issues are the graduation rate of our players and the apparent absence of corruption. Coach Bower runs a tight ship and suspends players who don't know how to behave. Too many coaches look the other way and bring shame to their schools. The style of offense or the win/loss record are not really legitimate faculty concerns, although we all can appreciate when our staff and players do well.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

not only does he produce a great program and has a high graduation rate but he also instills pride and a hard work ethic in his players. I am fortunate enough to work with a few former players and they point out different motivational sayings from Coach Bower and how he influenced the players with a positive attitude. I will try to get my boss to write a letter to the HA in support of Coach Bower and take it from the viewpoint of the well-rounded players he produces. I believe that will speak volumes just as much as quoting stats.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: lumpy oatmeal
"not only does he produce a great program and has a high graduation rate but he also instills pride and a hard work ethic in his players. I am fortunate enough to work with a few former players and they point out different motivational sayings from Coach Bower and how he influenced the players with a positive attitude. I will try to get my boss to write a letter to the HA in support of Coach Bower and take it from the viewpoint of the well-rounded players he produces. I believe that will speak volumes just as much as quoting stats."

Great Idea!!!!! Jeff and his wife Debbie are both USM graduates. His daughter Stephanie will be a freshman at USM and has made the cheerleading squad.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

Tying faculty concerns about Thames' devastation of the university to the alleged conflict between Shelboo and Jeff Bower could mire us in unintended consequences. Remember that one of the most trenchant criticisms of the faculty's opposition to Thames (one no less powerful for having been articulated by Roy Klumb himself) was/is that, not long before Thames was hired, Horace Fleming almost got a no-confidence vote himself. Even though this was in a sense coincidental--there are (IMHO) good reasons for the opposition to BOTH Fleming AND Shelboo--it's much harder to appear reasonable to the public if every single president the board picks becomes the object of faculty criticism.

In order not to diffuse the focus on the main issue--that Shelboo has made war on the faculty and largely destroyed whatever semblance of a university culture we used to have--I think we'd be well advised to keep THAT and his conflict with Bower (if there in fact is one) utterly separated.

If it were up to me, I'd keep the faculty-Shelboo controversy completely separate from any other issues.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

The only point that I'll bring up is that, just like the USM faculty, Jeff Bower basically works under the same regime. If SFT has instituted a letter campaign against him, it is very much the same method being used in the media against the faculty. Jeff Bower values academics - this is truly undisputable. Trying to railroad a well respected coach out of Hattiesburg is much like the March incident involving 2 professors. When people are doing their job and doing it well - we all need to watch one another's backs.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Making discrete
"

I think we'd be well advised to keep THAT and his conflict with Bower (if there in fact is one) utterly separated.

If it were up to me, I'd keep the faculty-Shelboo controversy completely separate from any other issues."

But that's the point. Allying the faculty concerns and issues with others who are being targeted by SFT for termination or removal creates a more united front to the community and joe public.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

I stated this several times on the old FS board, but I think it's germane here.

USM's football program achieves MORE with LESS than any other Div. I program, bar none. Almost invariably when a USM game is televised, the announcers point this out.

I think Jeff Bower's football program is a danged good metaphor for the whole university: MORE WITH LESS.

Anybody looking for an example of efficiency & effectiveness in higher education in Mississippi should take a close look at Jeff Bower's program.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

I have previously mentioned that I did not renew my season football tickets for the first time in 25 years for the simple reason that Jeff Bower was prominent among the "crowd" at the counter protest in support of SFT during the Stringer-Glamser hearings. Now I read that Bower IS the next Stringer-Glamser, and I should show my support for him.

Is there a "bright line" here? Has JB done or said anything at all to publicly align himself with the facultly instead of the administration? Maybe I'ma skeptic, or my paranoia runs deep, but I'm not seeing anything except vague rumor on this board and the same general criticism of a defense oriented football philosophy that pops up every year.

I really want to believe, but I've not seen a reason yet. Dammit, I'm not gonna buy a family's worth of tickets, then read about how SFT's got the community behind "Southern Miss."

Date: Jul 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"I have previously mentioned that I did not renew my season football tickets for the first time in 25 years for the simple reason that Jeff Bower was prominent among the "crowd" at the counter protest in support of SFT during the Stringer-Glamser hearings. Now I read that Bower IS the next Stringer-Glamser, and I should show my support for him. Is there a "bright line" here? Has JB done or said anything at all to publicly align himself with the facultly instead of the administration? Maybe I'ma skeptic, or my paranoia runs deep, but I'm not seeing anything except vague rumor on this board and the same general criticism of a defense oriented football philosophy that pops up every year. I really want to believe, but I've not seen a reason yet. Dammit, I'm not gonna buy a family's worth of tickets, then read about how SFT's got the community behind "Southern Miss.""

One thing to consider about the coaches, they were TOLD to show up and support Shelby. I do not think you have seen Jeff actually writing letters or making TV interviews and outwardly supporting Shelby. His unwillingness to openly support Shelby is another reason that Jeff is in hot water with SFT. He has been told to be vocal in public support of Shelby, but he has refused. The only person in athletics who is fully in 'bed' with SFT is Gianinni. It is like they are two peas in a pod.

According to one of the departed coaches, the athletes have been told to be supportive or, at the worst, noncommital about the administrtion. If they speak out negatively about the current administration THEY WILL LOSE THEIR SCHOLARSHIPS. I believe the person as he has a great amount of integrity. And these actions are what convinced the person to leave and take a better job in another state.

Date: Jul 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Ram points
" One thing to consider about the coaches, theinguishy were TOLD to show up and support Shelby. I do not think you have seen Jeff actually writing letters or making TV interviews and outwardly supporting Shelby. "

Okay, I can understand and respect that; but how then do I distinguish the coaches' behavior from that of any other staff person who is told what to do? For example, there has been significant criticism of Bob Pierce (Alumni Association President), Tim Ryan (CEO, USM Foundation), Lisa Mader (PR), and others for doing what they were told (and paid) to do by the administration. They work for the administration, too. Heck, Pierce has been criticized, not so much for anything he has done or said, but because he has not been vocal or visible in opposition to SFT.

So far, my conclusion is; if a staff person does as told, but subjectively, privately, doesn't want to, then he or she is to be applauded. In distinction, if another staff person does as instructed, but seems to "buy into" the instruction -- that is, acquiesces with some enthusiasm, real or feigned -- then he or she is to be vilified. If I am right, the question is not whether one obeys orders, but the attitude exhibited while obeying them? Surly staff are good. Enthusiastic staff are bad.

I really don't mean to be argumentative; I'm just trying to work my way through this. (. . . and probably trying to rationalize buying season tickets after all.)

Date: Jul 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"I stated this several times on the old FS board, but I think it's germane here. USM's football program achieves MORE with LESS than any other Div. I program, bar none. Almost invariably when a USM game is televised, the announcers point this out. I think Jeff Bower's football program is a danged good metaphor for the whole university: MORE WITH LESS. Anybody looking for an example of efficiency & effectiveness in higher education in Mississippi should take a close look at Jeff Bower's program."
Excellent, Invictus. Your thoughts would make a great "letter to the editor." Please consider sending this to the newspapers and to the IHL. While you're at it, send it to Jim Cameron at WDAM and to Dave Elliott at WLOX.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

Since the latest letter to the HA ("Why is Bower still at USM " by Steve Odom), is an Anti-Bower letter, I find this worthly of a "kick"

GH

Date: Jul 9, 2004

There is a letter campaign trying to oust Jeff Bower (who I actually consider to be a first class NAME coach) - the people writing these letters do not support the faculty. Also, those coaches were highly encouraged to show up for pro-Thames events. You won't hear them privately applauding him. I would recommend that anyone not familiar with statistics associated with Jeff's record while at USM go over to Eagletalk and read a thread that addresses his record. Jeff runs an ethically tight ship at USM. SFT has really gone too far with his current revengeful campaign. It's all about getting rid of anyone associated with the USM pre-SFT as president and creating a new regime (much like the Dean debacle) that has SFT supporters firmly in place.

Date: Jul 9, 2004

I had to barrow a post from Eagle Talk. This is just to good not to pass on to as many people as possilbe. The post is L or Lanny Mixon the local guru on Eagle Talk. This is what he thinks of Bower. This is from the free board so I don't think it's copy protected.

Lets start where most consider the modern age of college football to begin 1970.

1970 - Southern Miss defeats an Archie Manning led UM team that was ranked #4 in the nation. Losses to San Diego St, Memphis, La Tech and West Texas St?

That win over UM was the only win over a name team of the day between 70-77.

1977 - Defeated Auburn.

USM didn't defeat another non-Mississippi name team until 1981.

1981 - Defeated Florida St and followed it up with a loss to current C-USA member UofL.

1982 - Defeated Alabama and followed it up with a loss to La Tech.

USM didn't defeat another non-Mississippi name team until 1989.

1989 - USM defeated Florida State and followed it up with four consecutive losses and finished the season 5-6 including a homingcoming loss to ULL.

1990 - USM defeated Alabama and went on to a good year with loses to UGA, MSU and NCSt.

So from 1970-1990 Southern Miss defeated 6 non-Mississippi big name teams.

Lets look at USM with Bower at the helm.

1991 - Defeated Auburn
1992 - Defeated Va Tech
1993 - Alabama forfeits (not counted)
1994 - Defeated LSU
1995 - none
1996 - Georgia
1997 - Illinios
1998 - none
1999 - none
2000 - Alabama, TCU (both ranked in Top 15 at time of game)
2001 - Oklahoma St
2002 - Illinios
2003 - none

Ok in the previous 20 years before Bower, Southern Miss had beaten 5 non-Mississippi name schools. In the past 12 years under Bower Southern Miss has won 9 games against non-MS name schools. Of those nine wins only three Va Tech, Illinios and OSU were at home.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"I had to barrow a post from Eagle Talk. This is just to good not to pass on to as many people as possilbe. The post is L or Lanny Mixon the local guru on Eagle Talk. This is what he thinks of Bower. This is from the free board so I don't think it's copy protected.

Ok in the previous 20 years before Bower, Southern Miss had beaten 5 non-Mississippi name schools. In the past 12 years under Bower Southern Miss has won 9 games against non-MS name schools. Of those nine wins only three Va Tech, Illinios and OSU were at home.

"

Lanny seems to be a good guy, but that reads like Micheal Moore wrote it. What you are not being told:

The wins without Bower:

1977 - Auburn (Auburn's 1977 record = 6-5)
1981 - FSU (FSU's 1981 record = 6-5)
1982 - Alabama (Alabama's 1982 record = 8-4)
1989 - FSU (FSU's 1989 record = 10-2)
1990 - Alabama (Alabama's 1990 record = 7-5)

The wins with Bower:

1991 - Defeated Auburn (Auburn's 1991 record = 5-6)
1992 - Defeated Va Tech (Va Tech's 1992 record = 2-8-1)
1993 - Alabama forfeits (not counted)
1994 - Defeated LSU (LSU's 1994 record = 4-7)
1995 - none
1996 - Georgia (Georgia's 1996 record = 5-6)
1997 - Illinios (Illinois' 1997 record = 0-11)
1998 - none
1999 - none
2000 - Alabama, TCU (Alabama's 2000 record = 3-8)
2001 - Oklahoma St (Oklahoma St's 2001 record = 4-7)
2002 - Illinios (Illinois' 2002 record = 5-7)
2003 - none

Do you see a pattern?

Date: Jul 10, 2004

I clicked submit post a little too soon.

I'm not trying to turn this into an anti-Bower debate. I'm not anti-Bower. I don't want him to leave under these circumstances, but I don't see his departure as a death knell to the athletic program. If his departure will hasten the demise of Thames' Administration then it wouldn't be in vain. Hopefully, this will show the Thames diehards that Thames is as bad as we've been saying. Unfortunately, I fear too many of them are too rabidly myopic. And are quite proud of that.

Date: Jul 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: YetAnotherConcernedAlumnus
"I clicked submit post a little too soon.

I'm not trying to turn this into an anti-Bower debate. I'm not anti-Bower. I don't want him to leave under these circumstances, but I don't see his departure as a death knell to the athletic program. If his departure will hasten the demise of Thames' Administration then it wouldn't be in vain. Hopefully, this will show the Thames diehards that Thames is as bad as we've been saying. Unfortunately, I fear too many of them are too rabidly myopic. And are quite proud of that."

Maybe to get the full meaning of the post it probably should have been read in context with the thread it was in. I think if you go to the main message board, you will find the string near the top of the second page.