In early 2004, Thames made an effort to fire Glamser and Stringer based on their participation in an investigation of A. Dvorak and her vita. Thames locked the professors out of their offices and initiated termination procedures. The university, including faculty, staff, students, and others, was consumed by this act. The FireShelby message board was born. The faculty senate voted no confidence by a vote of something like 40-0, with one senator later publicly changing her vote after the fact. The flip-flopper was not a CoB senator. When the campus-wide no confidence vote rolled around, by and large CoB faculty turned out to vote no confidence. I didn't know Glamser or Stringer personally, but I voted no confidence anyway, because I felt that they were being mistreated, based on the information I could gather. They didn't work in my building. They didn't live in my neighborhood. They didn't attend my church. They didn't play racketball (or any other sport) with me. I took time to find out all I could about the situation. The FireShelby board was invaluable. I read it every day but never posted. I didn't know Glamser and Stringer, but I supported them because they were, based on everything I could find out, being mistreated by the Thames administration. As we know, the hearing ended with a settlement.
In the 2005-2006 school year, Grimes announced a plan that would pull graduate assistantship funds from colleges without doctoral programs and reallocate them to colleges with doctoral programs. This meant the CoB would lose GA's to other colleges. CoB posters complained on this board, but the loss of GA's was overshadowed by the Psychology situation (see below). Little support was forthcoming from non-CoB posters, and CoB posters became upset at the lack of solidarity shown. In fact, it seemed that many posters were reveling in the thought of the CoB losing resources.
Also in 2005-2006, Psychology professors held a meeting with Thames to air grievances regarding the fact that Psychology lines were going unfilled while CISE was being handed more lines than it needed. Pierce seemed to be selling Psychology out to curry favor with S. Thames and D. Thames. By and large, CoB faculty supported Psychology, though a few CoB posters vented their bitterness over the concurrent lack of support in the CoB GA situation (see above) on this message board.
In spring 2006 CoB posters began presenting stories about CoB corruption and mismanagement by Doty. Non-CoB posters bristled and asked for proof. Proof was forthcoming in the form of copy and paste emails from Doty to CoB faculty, yet these exhibits were ignored or dismissed. Calls began for the CoB posters to start their own board and leave this board.
Now, in summer 2006, some CoB faculty have apparently created a plethora of documentation taken primarily from public records. They have exposed ill-conceived evaluation processes, misallocation of state funds, and deceit in the CoB administration. Documents are available at www.USMPRIDE.com, and many of them contain citations of sources. Posting has been very nasty as those who do not want change fight those who do (which oddly enough reminds me of some of the troll battles that occurred before Thames received his one-year extension). A quasi-administrator has admitted that flawed information and a flawed process were used in the 2006 merit raise process. Yet, non-CoB posters are calling for registration for the message board and a ban on CoB topics, citing nastiness of threads and ignorance of topics discussed. Dupree is asked where he was during Glamser and Stringer, and board regulars pile on. I have to question truth4USM's perception when she replies that she "doesn't drink coffee." Ray Charles could see that Dupree was asking for a parlay in a friendly way. She insults his statement about providing information piecemeal because what she doesn't know is that he has storage buildings full of documents attained through many FOIA/MORA requests, some of which he has had to sue to obtain.
We helped you vindicate Glamser and Stringer whether we knew them or not because it was the right thing to do. We helped you send a message to the IHL. Now you're tired of hearing about CoB problems, you refuse to educate yourself when information is available, and you want us to go away now that we've outlived our usefulness. By and large, you failed to support us when we were losing GAs. By and large, you failed to support us when Doty was pulling dirty deals and perverting the promotion system. Now, by and large, you are failing to support a movement that could expose years of corruption perpetrated by many administrators at the CoB and university levels (and perhaps in CoAL, CoST, CoH, and CoEP as well). The CoB Mob is attempting a catharsis that will, when successful, cleanse the CoB of many corrupt persons in positions of authority. It's just too nasty for you to even be associated with.
Nobody's asking you to rally, to meet, to fight, to stand up against anyone, or to go to a public vote and show your face as you drop your ballot. All anybody on the CoB Mob side of the argument is asking is that you review the documents, think about them, and ask some questions as the opportunity arises. The Doty supporters may want more, like faith and belief in their righteousness and superiority. All the CoB Mob wants is for you to consider what you see and ask yourself a few tough questions.
The CoB Mob is attempting a catharsis that will, when successful, cleanse the CoB of many corrupt persons in positions of authority. It's just too nasty for you to even be associated with.
No Quarter wrote: All the CoB Mob wants is for you to consider what you see and ask yourself a few tough questions.
No, all the COB Mob wants us to do is let them take over our board...and to that I say:
NO QUARTER!
"our board"?
When did any section of staff or faculty have ownership rights? I thought one constant for this board was faculty supporting each other (and staff) against administrators not doing their jobs. Everyone has a right to post here, even CoB faculty, staff, and administrators. And they do post. The fact that the board used to focus on other parts of the university more often does not make this board an Arts and Letters board. From my read of much of this, "no quarter" is exactly what more than one faction in the CoB is trying to achieve. As has been said many times before on this board: if you do not want to read about CoB conflicts from any side, don't read the threads. Stay with that and save many points on your blood pressure.
When did any section of staff or faculty have ownership rights? I thought one constant for this board was faculty supporting each other (and staff) against administrators not doing their jobs. Everyone has a right to post here, even CoB faculty, staff, and administrators. And they do post. The fact that the board used to focus on other parts of the university more often does not make this board an Arts and Letters board. From my read of much of this, "no quarter" is exactly what more than one faction in the CoB is trying to achieve. As has been said many times before on this board: if you do not want to read about CoB conflicts from any side, don't read the threads. Stay with that and save many points on your blood pressure.
Have a wonderful weekend.
S
Actually, this board is owned by the person who set it up and who maintains it. That person can allow or disallow whatever suits him/her. I think we had this discussion a while back, and as previously noted, anyone can start up and maintain a free message board via ActiveBoard. Compared to FireShelby, the present webmaster has been pretty permissive, as far as I can tell. I say this as a person who received more than one warning/stern email from FireShelby!!
This is me. I sign all my posts. I don't call you a coward for using a nom, because I believe you have good reasons for using "No Quarter." How about showing me the same kind of courtesy?
No Quarter wrote: Marc, is that you? Don't you have better things to do on this fine Friday?
Actually, this board is owned by the person who set it up and who maintains it. That person can allow or disallow whatever suits him/her. I think we had this discussion a while back, and as previously noted, anyone can start up and maintain a free message board via ActiveBoard. Compared to FireShelby, the present webmaster has been pretty permissive, as far as I can tell. I say this as a person who received more than one warning/stern email from FireShelby!!
I'd like to hear from the owner. truth4USM and a few others seem to think they have a corner on the market. Let's hear from the owner him/herself. Otherwise, all of this anti-CoB garbage is meaningless. If the owner identifies him/herself and asks CoB posters to leave, then that's a lot different than a few disgruntled posters saying it.
I'd like to hear from the owner. truth4USM and a few others seem to think they have a corner on the market. Let's hear from the owner him/herself. Otherwise, all of this anti-CoB garbage is meaningless. If the owner identifies him/herself and asks CoB posters to leave, then that's a lot different than a few disgruntled posters saying it.
Dude, go check out the Public Service Announcement that just went up at usmpride.com!
I'd like to hear from the owner. truth4USM and a few others seem to think they have a corner on the market. Let's hear from the owner him/herself. Otherwise, all of this anti-CoB garbage is meaningless. If the owner identifies him/herself and asks CoB posters to leave, then that's a lot different than a few disgruntled posters saying it.
Well sure you would. And I'm sure the webmaster is just dying to reveal him/herself to an anonymous poster on this board. Oh, and I love "a few disgruntled posters." Honey, disgruntled is what this board is all about.
LVN, I have never thought of you as disgruntled, I think of you as "thoughtful". As for me, I am not disgruntled, cynics are never disgruntled because it gets in the way of being cynical.
As for the posters who are not happy with COB posters, they are forgetting that these forums are truly academic in that they allow for a wide range of discussions by people of widely varying beliefs. Both of us have been involved in a string of posts that may not have been interesting to many. The long discussions between Atheist and you, with me throwing in a few comments, likely bored many readers. Since there are usually many streams going on at one time, there are many choices to be made or ignored. I cannot tell which college the posters are in who want to see COB posters gone from the Board. If they are from COAL, it is sad since Liberal Arts is the last place I would think to find people who wish to suppress speech. Being a Liberal Arts under graduate from a Liberal Arts College, suppressing speech is counter to all I was taught. It is more likely that the anti COB posters are COB faculty who are benefiting from the present corrupt system.
Cossack, you, Atheist and I have not called each other names, have not revealed personal information about each other or our families, have not had to have our posts removed because they were so snide and ugly, etc. etc. The level of enmity between some of these posters is startling, whoever they are.
On the other hand, many posters from other colleges know who each other are and have managed to keep their disputes from becoming personal. For instance, I know who several posters are with whom I have had SHARP words, but they have not personally insulted me, and I have not "outed" them.
I think people in the other colleges have put the well-being of their departments above the need to expose ills on this board, and have not posted about any number of problems. Just because something isn't mentioned or responded to on this board, doesn't mean people don't know or care about it.
As for me, my days of active involvement on this board are numbered. I've stayed active longer than I've wished to or needed to, at the request of a few people who honored me by asking me to stay on. As much as I've cared about USM, I'm about worn out with all this, and unless some things change drastically, I'm not sure I have much more to offer. I wanted to come back to work there, but that seems more and more unlikely.
I appreciate you and your posts and wish that some of your colleagues would follow your example of courtesy and professionalism. And my very best to your dear wife, who knows me but probably doesn't realize it, and whose courage I greatly admire.
I have decided that I can have some fond memories of the USM that was while feeling pretty morose about the USM that now exists. I agree with you about the futility of investing more time and physic energy in USM. Thank you for your kind thoughts, they are in short supply currently.
Perhaps in the next regime, when everything and everyone shakes out, collegiality and positive thoughts and actions may return on a more widespread basis. Let us hope so.
All these threads that try to present the CobMob as the gallant victims of anti-civility, anti-collegial, "rent-seeking" forces crack me up. There has been no nastiness on these websites that comes even close to that targeted at the current business dean. When it became clear how few were responsible, who they chose to align with, and how ready they were to viciously attack anyone who tried to reason with them or point out the weaknesses in their arguments, it is not surprising that there was a counter response.
Cob faculty votes tell the story just as 400 to 30 told the story. The CobMob simply doesn't get it no matter how many times their colleagues say, in effect, "we've listened to you, we've heard you, we disagree with you, we've taken a vote, you didn't convince a majority of your peers, now let's move on."
Depree is not taking on just the current dean. He is (or has) taken on the former deans, directors, and chairs. Worse yet is his history of attacking dozens of individual faculty. His tenacity, demonstrated by the mail bombs many of us have received on our e-mail servers or at home through the US mail, is legendary. To many of us, he is simply not credible. His motives, transparently demonstrated through his actions, are self-serving. We tire of his relentless attacks. Those few who have associated with him became tainted by that association no matter how much they try to cozy up to known posters.
The historical strength of these websites did not come from dissent, it came from unity. The unity of purpose evolving from a bad president whose poor decisions affected the entire university community. The real issue in the Cob is that there is no unity supporting those in the CobMob and their constant barrage of insults and complaints. They present their arguments, they lay out their "evidence" and just like the Cob faculty votes they have lost, we are not convinced.
zhsphqnwfm wrote: All these threads that try to present the CobMob as the gallant victims of anti-civility, anti-collegial, "rent-seeking" forces crack me up. There has been no nastiness on these websites that comes even close to that targeted at the current business dean. When it became clear how few were responsible, who they chose to align with, and how ready they were to viciously attack anyone who tried to reason with them or point out the weaknesses in their arguments, it is not surprising that there was a counter response. Cob faculty votes tell the story just as 400 to 30 told the story. The CobMob simply doesn't get it no matter how many times their colleagues say, in effect, "we've listened to you, we've heard you, we disagree with you, we've taken a vote, you didn't convince a majority of your peers, now let's move on." Depree is not taking on just the current dean. He is (or has) taken on the former deans, directors, and chairs. Worse yet is his history of attacking dozens of individual faculty. His tenacity, demonstrated by the mail bombs many of us have received on our e-mail servers or at home through the US mail, is legendary. To many of us, he is simply not credible. His motives, transparently demonstrated through his actions, are self-serving. We tire of his relentless attacks. Those few who have associated with him became tainted by that association no matter how much they try to cozy up to known posters. The historical strength of these websites did not come from dissent, it came from unity. The unity of purpose evolving from a bad president whose poor decisions affected the entire university community. The real issue in the Cob is that there is no unity supporting those in the CobMob and their constant barrage of insults and complaints. They present their arguments, they lay out their "evidence" and just like the Cob faculty votes they have lost, we are not convinced. It is time to move on.
Spoken like someone who has never been at a good university.
Even in the face of overwhelming evidence of mismanagement, partiality, and even misconduct on the part of administrators, some CoB faculty don't have the guts to do the right thing, especially when they're getting benefits from corruption. Just keep on telling yourself these lies. Maybe one day you'll wake up and actually believe them.
One thing I have always wondered. The CobMob plays out the corruption, partiality, cronyism over there. They lay out all these facts, and then say things like "Someday, things will be fixed". Just what do they want? All administrators fired? All underperfroming faculty they have identified fired?
Their strategy appears to be throw as much mud on everyone, and then only they will remain to "right all the wrongs". How will this occur? The solution they offer is always more transparency and a bunch of formulas to calculate in excruciating detail research productivity. That is not a solution. That is just data. What specifically should be done?
It seems to me that they are just lying around complaining. Surely one or two of them is in a position to take some leadership. If the place is so screwed up, volunteer to fix it. Create a POSITIVE message that can be sold to improve the place, and then step in and help lead the change. Taking a dump on everyone is not going to create an environment where people will support you. Throughout all these threads, they have lambasted at least 15-20 of their fellow faculty. These are their colleagues.
But, maybe that is not what they really want. As it stands now most of us outside of this just see a bunch of disgruntled complaining and settling old scores. Until one of the CobMob offers a positive message on how they will lead the change, it will not change a thing.
Oh, and don't give me the "The place is so corrupt, I'm a victim, I'm powerless" schtick. If you can't change it, then save yourself the analyses and mud-slinging, and find greener pastures.