Board issues - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 19, 2006

RE: Board issues

Date: Jul 19, 2006

let me begin with the historical question. i don't think the results had any effect on the IHL or the administration. graduate education, particularly doctoral education, has not had much support over the years at USM. using the '95 results can be difficult, because what do you do with doctoral programs the NRC chose not to evaluate? do you make an implicit value judgment that they are less valuable because they are not in the NRC report? i personally felt the Fleming administration made the wrong decision--instead of using the results to try to build or improve programs, they decided to develop new doctoral programs, further spreading the financial support a mile wide and an inch deep. already starving doctoral programs now had new programs with which to compete for support.

what will be the results in the new report, whenever it comes out (it's 2 years delayed already because of financial problems). i do know, because i've heard NRC people say this, that you won't be able to compare the '95 results with the new results--the methodology is completely different. for example, they will survey doctoral students admitted to candidacy about the programs. new areas of doctoral study will be included. additional information will be included, including average GRE scores of students, stipend amounts, and the like. so no one will find it easy to simply say a program got better or worse between the two reports, and there are earlier reports as well.

the USM doctoral programs that will be eligible for the NRC study will get to choose whether they want to be included. (as an aside, the report doesn't evaluate entire doctoral programs. it evaluates particular subareas in disciplines.) so we'll see.

Date: Jul 19, 2006

Thank you for your response. Lack of focus, lack of commitment, lack of shared vision, lack of continuity all seem to be issues. It's far too simple to assume a strategic resource grab from one unit to another as I might have initially implied.

Date: Jul 19, 2006

I know that all threads wander, but it would be really helpful if we could keep this one on topic as the webmaster tries to get a sense of how we all feel about changes to the board.

And how many ways from Sunday does it have to be explained that registration does not mean a loss of anonymity?

Date: Jul 19, 2006

mea culpa, I took a segue at Angeline's reference to the dome.

Date: Jul 19, 2006

It's a good topic, BtBB, why don't you start a new thread?

Date: Jul 19, 2006

What type of registration do you anticipate for this board? What information will the moderator require? Real Name? Real Email Address? Who will check to see if the information provided is valid? I assume registration will only be required for posters, but not readers. Thanks for any answers you may provide.

Date: Jul 19, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

I support registration, too. The only people it would probably stifle at this point would be the COB mob and the anti-COB mob (god, I can never keep that all straight), and would that really be such a bad idea?

If the anonymous posters don't like it, they are free to start their own anonymous board...Activeboard is free and open to all.

Truth

Truth4usm/AH, please take a look at USMPride. Details are not a lot of fun to read. We're all busy with our own lives, but if you are interested in corruption or abuse of power of our administrators, there is no easy way to present complex issues except in detail. Also please note that colleagues who don't offer facts and evidence supported by documentation may be doing their best to confuse the process of dialogue so useful to all of us on this Board. They will try every type of subterfuge they can. It is difficult to sort through the noise. That's why evidence and documentation are so important. Ask our noisy colleagues to present their evidence and facts supported by documentation. I welcome their evidence. We need objective input to be able to sort through problems and make improvements. One last item. Please note that USMPride is not a narrowly focused CoB website. Administrators support each other from top to bottom and they are furious that I've opened their decision making to public scrutiny. I'll present many more documents and evidence in the future but to present it all at once would be truly overwhelming.

And my invitation to have a cup of coffee so we can get to know each other is open to you or anyone else.

Marc
268-0372

Date: Jul 19, 2006

I wondered if cob folks paid attention to anybody but themselves. Everybody who didn't know that Truth lives in Nashville and works at VU, raise your hand.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Thanks "A long dern drive." I have friends in New Orleans, San Fancisco, New York, Atlanta, Lexington, and other locations including Nashville. I enjoy getting to gether with them and sometimes we have coffee, sometimes high tea, maybe dinner. I like meeting interesting people and my friends don't agree and don't think they have to in oder to be friends. Rather than exchanging repartee--though that can be fun, take a look at USMPride, then return and tell us whether "CoB folks" pay attention to both university and CoB issues. Also give us an idea of what you are doing to improve our school. We all make our own contributions, so there is nothing negative in my request for information.

We could have coffee, too.

A long dern drive wrote:

I wondered if cob folks paid attention to anybody but themselves. Everybody who didn't know that Truth lives in Nashville and works at VU, raise your hand.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Chauncey DePree wrote:

Thanks "A long dern drive." I have friends in New Orleans, San Fancisco, New York, Atlanta, Lexington, and other locations including Nashville. I enjoy getting to gether with them and sometimes we have coffee, sometimes high tea, maybe dinner. I like meeting interesting people and my friends don't agree and don't think they have to in oder to be friends. Rather than exchanging repartee--though that can be fun, take a look at USMPride, then return and tell us whether "CoB folks" pay attention to both university and CoB issues. Also give us an idea of what you are doing to improve our school. We all make our own contributions, so there is nothing negative in my request for information. We could have coffee, too. A long dern drive wrote: I wondered if cob folks paid attention to anybody but themselves. Everybody who didn't know that Truth lives in Nashville and works at VU, raise your hand.

This is getting tiresome. Where was Depree when Shelby was anointed as president - I don't remember seeing him at the AAUP desk helping to collect petition signatures. Is Depree even a member of AAUP? Has he been to AAUP meetings? Where was his public voice in the Glamser/Stringer debacle? Did he participate in the 430 to 32 faculty vote of no confidence against Thames on March 10, 2004? On which side? Where, in other words, have you been all along Dr. Depree to now lecture us on what we do to try to preseve USM? Your website on CoB issues is fine, just stop your sanctimonious admonitions.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

I included an incorrect description of one of the above actions to see if Depree even knows enough about the resistance to Thames to catch it.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Black Cat wrote:
... just stop your sanctimonious admonitions.

Did you say sanctimonious? Is the Black Cat calling the kettle black?

Date: Jul 20, 2006

I have the greatest respect for the AAUP and if you follow the precepts espoused by the AAUP you'll understand what I'm doing. Also, if you had spent a few minutes at USMPride you'd see I've been tryiing to get administrators to live up to their principles for a long time. Keep in mind, I'm not perfect, never claimed to be. Now that we've gotten that behind us, let's get on with the task at hand, taking our school from the worst group of leaders I've ever experienced.

I would be happy to discuss strategy with you Black Cat. A detailed discussion of my activities is best done face to face. Talk to me about your concerns, so that other memebers of the Board don't have to listen to my history. You asked for it. Call me and I'll talk your ear off and you can tell me what your history is. If you then think that it should be presented on this Board, I'll be happy to oblige.

Black Cat wrote:

Chauncey DePree wrote:
This is getting tiresome. Where was Depree when Shelby was anointed as president - I don't remember seeing him at the AAUP desk helping to collect petition signatures. Is Depree even a member of AAUP? Has he been to AAUP meetings? Where was his public voice in the Glamser/Stringer debacle? Did he participate in the 430 to 32 faculty vote of no confidence against Thames on March 10, 2004? On which side? Where, in other words, have you been all along Dr. Depree to now lecture us on what we do to try to preseve USM? Your website on CoB issues is fine, just stop your sanctimonious admonitions.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

I have advocated a by-registration board for a long time.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Invictus wrote:

I have advocated a by-registration board for a long time.

Spoken like a true patriot -- safely removed from USM?

The first possibility of safety for anyone at USM may come next May 21st. Even then, it is not a given.

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Marc:

Since I no longer live in MS (as some astute board member pointed out) and don't drink coffee, unfortunately I can't take you up on your offer. And, to be honest, I don't quite trust your "I'll present all of my evidence piecemeal, because...gee whiz!...it would overwhelm you so!" stance. Look, this board has always been like the Wild West, and we've survived many a troll (and group of trolls--sockpuppets or no), but the COB war is unlike anything I've ever seen. I agree with Black Cat...where were you when tenured faculty members were getting locked out of their offices?

I support your right to free speech and getting at the truth, but frankly I feel your cause would be better served in ways other than hijacking this board for your own narrow purposes.

Just my $.02 as a longtime board member, former USM staff-er and alum,

Truth/Andrea

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Thank you, Invictus, for at least attempting to get this thread back on track! I, too, welcome the day that this board is registration-only.

Truth

Date: Jul 20, 2006

Drinking a cup of coffe was polite way to invite you to get to know me whether you live in Nashville or Hattiesburg. You don't have to accept the friendly offer and it didn't require you to dring coffee or live in Hattiesburg.

See my response to Black Cat. My challenge to him is offered to you or a local friend of yours.

Instead of declaring distrust without any evidence, let me suggest you or a local friend of your choice look at the documentation and evidence I've accumulated. Then you'll have a basis for declaring your beliefs. Instead of epithets, take a chance to question your assumptions, a timehonored tradition in academe. You put forward the challenge. I accept. Now you have an opportunity to "gee whiz" all of us with your knowledge.

Marc

truth4usm/AH wrote:

Marc:

Since I no longer live in MS (as some astute board member pointed out) and don't drink coffee, unfortunately I can't take you up on your offer. And, to be honest, I don't quite trust your "I'll present all of my evidence piecemeal, because...gee whiz!...it would overwhelm you so!" stance. Look, this board has always been like the Wild West, and we've survived many a troll (and group of trolls--sockpuppets or no), but the COB war is unlike anything I've ever seen. I agree with Black Cat...where were you when tenured faculty members were getting locked out of their offices?

I support your right to free speech and getting at the truth, but frankly I feel your cause would be better served in ways other than hijacking this board for your own narrow purposes.

Just my $.02 as a longtime board member, former USM staff-er and alum,

Truth/Andrea

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Sorry, Marc...I don't like people who hide behind a veneer of "politeness" in order to hijack threads on this board. I don't need to wade through hundreds of scans of emails and letters to know that I'm no fan of yours...your actions speak louder than your words.

Good luck in your pursuit of truth,

The Real Truth

PS--I've never claimed to have any knowledge of what's going on in the COB, and furthermore, after seeing the behavior of the COBsters on this board, I know for sure that I have no time for these shenanigans.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

Sorry, Marc...I don't like people who hide behind a veneer of "politeness" in order to hijack threads on this board. I don't need to wade through hundreds of scans of emails and letters to know that I'm no fan of yours...your actions speak louder than your words.

Good luck in your pursuit of truth,

The Real Truth

PS--I've never claimed to have any knowledge of what's going on in the COB, and furthermore, after seeing the behavior of the COBsters on this board, I know for sure that I have no time for these shenanigans.

Looks like C-Note's thread is more relevant than ever.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Most folks on this Board are anonymous. How do you know these noisy self designated CoB participants are CoB faculty? How do you know they are not administrators? Or somebody from VU?

I recognize you don't need to do anything you don't want to, but when you question someone's integrity, call them names, characterized them negatively, you'll be called on it when you do it to me. In terms of that nasty little world of yours, put up or shut up.

Veneer of "politeness?" Have we ever met? Do you know me? Or are you intuiting the Truth, again?

You've clearly said and demonstrated you don't have knowledge about CoB and you don't care to. If you don't like a topic, don't pontificate as though you have knowledge.

Do you have any well-founded convictions? Do you ever take action on the basis of your convictions? I do. And since you don't know me and admit you don't want to review any evidence, and are not interested to boot, why are you even bothering to communicate with me much less give me advice?

If you don't want to hear from me, restrain youself from talking to me. If you don't want to read CoB threads, don't read it. Use your own threads and leave ours to us and those who are interested.

CoB faculty includiing me choose to particiate in campus-wide issues at USM. It's our school, too.

From your veneer perspective, but from my opennes perspective: My offers to you are still open, if you should become interested. This offer is a guy thing. Other boys I got in knock-down drag out fights with often became good friends. I'm an optimist.

Marc
601-268-0372

And good like to you and I hope talking

truth4usm/AH wrote:

Sorry, Marc...I don't like people who hide behind a veneer of "politeness" in order to hijack threads on this board. I don't need to wade through hundreds of scans of emails and letters to know that I'm no fan of yours...your actions speak louder than your words.

Good luck in your pursuit of truth,

The Real Truth

PS--I've never claimed to have any knowledge of what's going on in the COB, and furthermore, after seeing the behavior of the COBsters on this board, I know for sure that I have no time for these shenanigans.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Chauncey DePree wrote:

This offer is a guy thing. Other boys I got in knock-down drag out fights with often became good friends. I'm an optimist.

Truth is a woman, and she is not anonymous.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Yeah, so what?

Friend of Truth wrote:

Chauncey DePree wrote:

This offer is a guy thing. Other boys I got in knock-down drag out fights with often became good friends. I'm an optimist.

Truth is a woman, and she is not anonymous.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

I don't know you personally, but I do know of your actions on this board. And I don't like them. I don't like how you hijack threads and act like you have the moral high ground here. If you go through the archives of this board, you will see that SOME of us have been around since the beginning, so there is a history here. This board was started so that people could rally around Frank Glamser and Gary Stringer as they were being attacked by Shelby Thames and his minions. THAT is the original purpose of this board. Obviously, it has morphed into a board about all things USM and beyond. Relationships have been created on this board (virtual and real) and so those of us who have been around since the beginning are bit protective when it comes to the tone of the board.

So, when someone like yourself decides to hijack our board with his numerous posts about the COB, yeah, we get a little defensive. We don't want this to turn into a COB only board, so that's where we're coming from...we're fighting back in our own way. And, you're right...I have no idea if the 5,000 COB posts are from 50 people or one person, but I do know that they have a way of turning nasty in a way that no other threads do. Usually, I ignore ANY thread having to do with the COB, but since you HIJACKED this thread with your COB business, it became MY business.

All I know of you is how you have behaved on this thread...you have used your "veneer of politeness" to insinuate that you have "special knowledge" about certain USM issues, that you have every right to hijack this thread, and now you have used it to attack me. The way I see it, this is OUR playground and you have come here mucking it up. So, back off, ignore me...whatever. I don't care much. Just don't go playing pity party or "tough guy" when confronted with the truth of what you are doing here.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

You said it was a "guy thing."

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Yeah, apparently he's great parsing the details of every memo ever written in the COB, but not so much on his own posts.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

You're not paying attentin. Reread my recent posts. Your emotional pitch is the same as what you are criticizing of the noisy types on the Board. No wonder you were ineffectve helping Glamser and Stringer. They needed better. Emotional outbursts are not much good.

truth4usm/AH wrote:

I don't know you personally, but I do know of your actions on this board. And I don't like them. I don't like how you hijack threads and act like you have the moral high ground here. If you go through the archives of this board, you will see that SOME of us have been around since the beginning, so there is a history here. This board was started so that people could rally around Frank Glamser and Gary Stringer as they were being attacked by Shelby Thames and his minions. THAT is the original purpose of this board. Obviously, it has morphed into a board about all things USM and beyond. Relationships have been created on this board (virtual and real) and so those of us who have been around since the beginning are bit protective when it comes to the tone of the board.

So, when someone like yourself decides to hijack our board with his numerous posts about the COB, yeah, we get a little defensive. We don't want this to turn into a COB only board, so that's where we're coming from...we're fighting back in our own way. And, you're right...I have no idea if the 5,000 COB posts are from 50 people or one person, but I do know that they have a way of turning nasty in a way that no other threads do. Usually, I ignore ANY thread having to do with the COB, but since you HIJACKED this thread with your COB business, it became MY business.

All I know of you is how you have behaved on this thread...you have used your "veneer of politeness" to insinuate that you have "special knowledge" about certain USM issues, that you have every right to hijack this thread, and now you have used it to attack me. The way I see it, this is OUR playground and you have come here mucking it up. So, back off, ignore me...whatever. I don't care much. Just don't go playing pity party or "tough guy" when confronted with the truth of what you are doing here.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

No wonder you were ineffectve helping Glamser and Stringer. They needed better.

See what I'm talking about? And why are you here again, Marc?

Idot.

Date: Jul 21, 2006

Ah, now that you've found out I'm a WOMAN, it's "my emotional issues." Before when you thought I was a MAN, you likened our exchange to playground fisticuffs. Typical.

Grow up, Marc and get a life. Or at least start your own message board and leave ours alone.