USM = #4 in MS by 2010 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 11, 2006

USM = #4 in MS by 2010

Date: Jun 11, 2006

You may be correct, "Not a Member", as far as the rest of USM is concerned, however, in the CoST departments are expanding, teaching loads are reduced, and more time is being directed to research and grant acquisition. It looks to me like CoST will become MIT (Mississippi Institute of Technology) while the rest of USM becomes a Community College.

Date: Jun 11, 2006

You don't know much about the library budget here if you think it can be cut further. USM holds the least volumes and has the lowest budget of any library among its "peer" institutions - schools like East Carolina, South Alabama etc., not even Ole Miss or State.

Date: Jun 11, 2006

This was what was predicted when Thames was first appointed. The first hint that it really was true was given when the colleges were reorganized. Question. Is this what Shelby really wanted--a MIT within a juco--or has he been surprised by the ramifications of his decisions?

Date: Jun 11, 2006

Although MIT is known throughout the world for its programs in science and engineering, MIT is also an institution where the humanities, arts, and social sciences play an integral role in the educational mission. Together, they help to make MIT much more than just an institute of technology.

For more information, visit http://web.mit.edu/fll/www/

I didn't think that Polymer science was classified as a science such as the ones studied at MIT. Can anyone tell me the difference. Regards, Disgusted Students

Date: Jun 11, 2006

disgusted student wrote:

Although MIT is known throughout the world for its programs in science and engineering, MIT is also an institution where the humanities, arts, and social sciences play an integral role in the educational mission. Together, they help to make MIT much more than just an institute of technology.

For more information, visit http://web.mit.edu/fll/www/

I didn't think that Polymer science was classified as a science such as the ones studied at MIT. Can anyone tell me the difference. Regards, Disgusted Students

I don't think anybody was using "MIT" to suggest the Massachusetts Institute of Technology -- rather, the low-rent Mississippi version that could churn out $$ via MURAs to line the pockets of a few.

Just my take.

Date: Jun 11, 2006

Right about my comment, nmcc. I didn't mean to imply that USM could be an MIT--just Thames's version of one, without any regard for the humanities or the arts. didn't someone call it the Mississippi Institute of Technology?

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Not A Member of the Country Club wrote:

The titanic's sinking, folks. If you don't want to work at a glorified JUCO, I'd suggest bailing out now.

There are a good many faculty at USM that wouldn't be considered a "top hire" at most of the community colleges in Mississippi, so don't flatter yourself. (I am speaking from experience on CJC hiring committees & not "in theory.") The reason is that community colleges make no pretense about "research," while a lot of B- & C-grade "researchers" at USM can't teach their way out of a brown paper bag. You know who they are. Some of them even get merit raises at USM!

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Invictus wrote:

Not A Member of the Country Club wrote:
The titanic's sinking, folks. If you don't want to work at a glorified JUCO, I'd suggest bailing out now.
There are a good many faculty at USM that wouldn't be considered a "top hire" at most of the community colleges in Mississippi, so don't flatter yourself. (I am speaking from experience on CJC hiring committees & not "in theory.") The reason is that community colleges make no pretense about "research," while a lot of B- & C-grade "researchers" at USM can't teach their way out of a brown paper bag. You know who they are. Some of them even get merit raises at USM!

From what I see in my classes, there are very few JUCO instructors who can teach their way out of a wet paper bag. There is still a significant divide between those who do their freshman and sophomore years at USM and those who do them at a JUCO -- the difference being that the JUCO students' writing ability, overall communication skills, math skills, and general ability to solve problems are much lower-level.

In response to "Not A Member of the Country Club", I agree. I don't want to work at a place that has a 4-course teaching load AND has a research expectation.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Invictus wrote:

Not A Member of the Country Club wrote:
The titanic's sinking, folks. If you don't want to work at a glorified JUCO, I'd suggest bailing out now.
There are a good many faculty at USM that wouldn't be considered a "top hire" at most of the community colleges in Mississippi, so don't flatter yourself. (I am speaking from experience on CJC hiring committees & not "in theory.") The reason is that community colleges make no pretense about "research," while a lot of B- & C-grade "researchers" at USM can't teach their way out of a brown paper bag. You know who they are. Some of them even get merit raises at USM!

After re-reading my post above and re-reading yours, I need to add something. You seem to assume that A-level researchers are good teachers, and that B- and C-grade researchers can't teach. While there are definitely some A-level researchers at USM who can teach, there are also some B- and C-level researchers who can teach, just as there are some A-, B-, and C-level researchers who cannot teach. The correlation between "good researcher" and "good teacher" is much stronger at the graduate level than at the undergraduate level.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Not meaning to imply that A-level researchers can or cannot teach, or that all B- or C-level researchers can't teach. My real point is that universities, including USM, value "research" whereas community colleges do not; hence, a "researcher" who is a lousy teacher isn't really all that competitive in the "JUCO" market.

I'll relay your sentiments to your former students who teach at community colleges, because my observations over the past 30 years is that folks tend to teach as they were taught!

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Hopefully none of my former students are teaching at the JUCO level. I'd hate to think that I was helping (in some way) perpetuate a system that requires so little effort from students (other than attending class).

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Invictus wrote:

. . . My real point is that universities, including USM, value "research" whereas community colleges do not; hence, a "researcher" who is a lousy teacher isn't really all that competitive in the "JUCO" market. . . .

Why do you make a point of placing quotation marks around the words research and researchers? Are you suggesting that what we do does not reach your "threshold" for whatever you deem worthy of being considered research?

Date: Jun 12, 2006

It's funny that this string was started.

As much as I complained about the interview process and how no one was listening to the faculty, staff, or students; my husband predicted the same thing when Dr. Thames was named president of the university. I told him he was crazy. At which point, he told me to wait and see.

Well, I have waited. Unfortunately, I now feel the same way. Dr. Thames was put in office to bring Southern Miss down from its #2 position.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Staff wrote:

It's funny that this string was started.
As much as I complained about the interview process and how no one was listening to the faculty, staff, or students; my husband predicted the same thing when Dr. Thames was named president of the university. I told him he was crazy. At which point, he told me to wait and see.
Well, I have waited. Unfortunately, I now feel the same way. Dr. Thames was put in office to bring Southern Miss down from its #2 position.

The above comment is right on the money. What's so wierd is that SFT, for all his ego, seems to want his legacy to be known for wrecking a good univeristy. Not many people aspire to malicious incompetence, but he seems to relish it. What a lsmall-town loser. Thank God he isn't any brighter, or he would have really killed the place.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

With regard to the math skills of students from the JUCO system and those that started at USM, I see little to no difference in their performance in the mathematics classes that I teach.

CoBster in Residence wrote:

From what I see in my classes, there are very few JUCO instructors who can teach their way out of a wet paper bag. There is still a significant divide between those who do their freshman and sophomore years at USM and those who do them at a JUCO -- the difference being that the JUCO students' writing ability, overall communication skills, math skills, and general ability to solve problems are much lower-level.

In response to "Not A Member of the Country Club", I agree. I don't want to work at a place that has a 4-course teaching load AND has a research expectation.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

Not A Member of the Country Club wrote:

According to several sources with attachments to the Dome and IHL, USM is slated to be "demoted" to 4th place among universities in Mississippi

I don't have the foggiest idea about USM being "demoted" to 4th place. If it is, however, the Alumni Association should share some of the blame. Strong alumni would never let such a thing happen. They seem to have been sleeping during the past 3+ years.

Date: Jun 12, 2006

dumbfounded wrote:

Not many people aspire to malicious incompetence, but he seems to relish it. What a lsmall-town loser. Thank God he isn't any brighter, or he would have really killed the place.

This is classic, especially the phrase "malicious incompetence."

Date: Jun 13, 2006

Mr. Wizard wrote:

Why do you make a point of placing quotation marks around the words research and researchers? Are you suggesting that what we do does not reach your "threshold" for whatever you deem worthy of being considered research?

"We" is a pretty global pronoun.

I used the quotes to distinguish "researchers" and "research" from researchers and research. The distinction applies to all disciplines & there are "researchers' in every college at USM (hell, in every university in the world) just as there are researchers in every discipline. You can probably identify the "researchers" & researchers in your own department, although it's usually more fun -- and more in line with human nature -- to identify the researchers in one's own department & the "researchers" in others.

My experience is that the "researchers" tend to bellow & trumpet a whole lot more about the "value" of what they do than the researchers. At USM, one doesn't have to look very far to see a pretty darn good example of it.

Date: Jun 19, 2006

According to several sources with attachments to the Dome and IHL, USM is slated to be "demoted" to 4th place among universities in Mississippi, maybe as soon as 2010.

I'll second that. I heard exactly the same thing from a person that I think should know. The sad part is the money diverted to UM and MSU aren't likely to reduce their SEC doormat status. However, JSU needs the money to provide "services" to the community that won't be discussed.

Cheers,