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Atheist

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RE: H.A.--State students last in science
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curious wrote:




Athesit wrote: While I agree with "Godless Liberal", I go one step further and to more basic mental operations.  Math and science use reason/logic at high level.  It is the antithesis to "faith".  It leads to questioning that threatens all faith base systems, unless the believers adopt a mental state that protects them from this threat.  That mental state blocks the development of the logic required by math and science.   I think this is the reason for the culture clash and lack of dialogue to which Jameela referred.


atheist, can you site any references? just curious.  




Curious,  my comments are from my experience as a scientist, who studied Christian theology, and as an educator.   I have over thirty years experience trying to educate students to reason logically and scientificaly rather than memorize what authority tells them.  I have no idea what "references" you asked about.  Do you know of any studies on these issues we have discussed?  In what field would you suggest I look for such studies?   If your question is about the logic, I would suggest higher Mathematical journals.     


My experience is that many religious people reason using allegory, metaphor and equivocation of terms to reach preconceived conclusions.  This is what I was addressing.



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Eureka

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Atheist wrote:

 I have no idea what "references" you asked about.  Do you know of any studies on these issues we have discussed? 
Ah hah. Just as I suspected. Your speculations are just what I thought they were: speculations.

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Atheist

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Eureka wrote:




Atheist wrote:  I have no idea what "references" you asked about.  Do you know of any studies on these issues we have discussed? 


Ah hah. Just as I suspected. Your speculations are just what I thought they were: speculations.



Good evening, Eureka.  Would you care to rebut the "speculations" based on experience with both science and the religious?  I will help get you started: Do you believe in ________(fill in the blank)?    If so, please tell us why you believe.  Let's see what logic you use so we all can see if my "speculations" were correct.

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Obviousman

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Eureka wrote:
Ah hah. Just as I suspected. Your speculations are just what I thought they were: speculations.

Rather than sniping at what appears to be a sophomoric reaction, I will recommend some balanced reading that straddles the issue of "faith vs logic" without going to the extremist views found in simplistic us and them arguements.


C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity


Martin Buber - I and Thou


Philip Kitcher - The Advancement of Science : Science without Legend, Objectivity without Illusions


 



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Atheist

Date:
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Obviousman wrote:




Eureka wrote:Ah hah. Just as I suspected. Your speculations are just what I thought they were: speculations.


Rather than sniping at what appears to be a sophomoric reaction, I will recommend some balanced reading that straddles the issue of "faith vs logic" without going to the extremist views found in simplistic us and them arguements. C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity Martin Buber - I and Thou Philip Kitcher - The Advancement of Science : Science without Legend, Objectivity without Illusions  



Thanks Obviousman.  Are these works "peer reviewed"? We don't want "speculation".

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curious

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Atheist wrote:

Curious,  my comments are from my experience as a scientist, who studied Christian theology, and as an educator.   I have over thirty years experience trying to educate students to reason logically and scientificaly rather than memorize what authority tells them.  I have no idea what "references" you asked about.  Do you know of any studies on these issues we have discussed?  In what field would you suggest I look for such studies?   If your question is about the logic, I would suggest higher Mathematical journals.      My experience is that many religious people reason using allegory, metaphor and equivocation of terms to reach preconceived conclusions.  This is what I was addressing.

Pardon my late reply. I did not think you were asking me those questions, but just in case, as I am often more wrong than right, I have yet another question: Does the work of Margaret Thaler Singer count or am I way off base?


curious.



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Atheist

Date:
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curious wrote:




Atheist wrote: Curious,  my comments are from my experience as a scientist, who studied Christian theology, and as an educator.   I have over thirty years experience trying to educate students to reason logically and scientificaly rather than memorize what authority tells them.  I have no idea what "references" you asked about.  Do you know of any studies on these issues we have discussed?  In what field would you suggest I look for such studies?   If your question is about the logic, I would suggest higher Mathematical journals.      My experience is that many religious people reason using allegory, metaphor and equivocation of terms to reach preconceived conclusions.  This is what I was addressing.


Pardon my late reply. I did not think you were asking me those questions, but just in case, as I am often more wrong than right, I have yet another question: Does the work of Margaret Thaler Singer count or am I way off base? curious.



Curious, I'm not familiar with that work.  I will try to research it when I find time. Thanks for your reply.  However, I rather not have the discussion turn to book references.  Before you know it everyone will just be posting links without discussion.

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Atheist

Date:
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curious wrote:

... Does the work of Margaret Thaler Singer count or am I way off base? curious.


Curious, I just realized that you were suggesting "Cults in our midst".  I haven't read it yet,

but it definitely applies to what we have been discussing.  Thanks for reminding me that I wanted to read that work.



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