Economic Development - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 15, 2006

Economic Development

Date: May 15, 2006

Mr. Wizard wrote:

From Mr. Wizard's NY Times quote: "Now a lot of professors are like businessmen. They are good at talking and promotion, and many of them have their own companies and make as much money as they can."

I've known this all along. USM appears to be invested with this disorder.

Date: May 15, 2006

Maybe "Off the Plantation" and "Lest We Forget" would honor us with another discussion of the effects of our system of Democratic Capitalism on the pursuit of knowledge. We presently enjoy the fruits of the science developed during the past 180 years, a time during which knowledge was pursued for the sake of knowledge and disseminated freely for the benefit of humanity. Now knowledge is called "intellectual property", and is just another commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder rather than freely exchanged. Without that free exchange of scientific knowledge, will capitalism kill the "Goose that laid the golden egg"? Is the scientific method the antithesis of Capitalism?

Date: May 15, 2006

Patriot wrote:

Maybe "Off the Plantation" and "Lest We Forget" would honor us with another discussion of the effects of our system of Democratic Capitalism on the pursuit of knowledge. We presently enjoy the fruits of the science developed during the past 180 years, a time during which knowledge was pursued for the sake of knowledge and disseminated freely for the benefit of humanity. Now knowledge is called "intellectual property", and is just another commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder rather than freely exchanged. Without that free exchange of scientific knowledge, will capitalism kill the "Goose that laid the golden egg"? Is the scientific method the antithesis of Capitalism?

Thank you..for your excellent wordsmithing.

At the end of the day, the free exchange of knowledge and ideas is what is all about.

Date: May 15, 2006

Patriot wrote:

Maybe "Off the Plantation" and "Lest We Forget" would honor us with another discussion of the effects of our system of Democratic Capitalism on the pursuit of knowledge.

No, no! Hush, they'll hear you!

Date: May 15, 2006

Patriot wrote:

We presently enjoy the fruits of the science developed during the past 180 years, a time during which knowledge was pursued for the sake of knowledge and disseminated freely for the benefit of humanity. Now knowledge is called "intellectual property", and is just another commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder rather than freely exchanged. Without that free exchange of scientific knowledge, will capitalism kill the "Goose that laid the golden egg"? Is the scientific method the antithesis of Capitalism?

Well put, Patriot. Another wrinkle on this matter is that when scholarly research relies largely on business and industry for its financial support the danger of a "conflict of interest" rears its ugly head. The pharmaceutical industry is particulary vulnerable. Recent findings suggest that the outcome of such research sometimes depends on who is providing the funding.

Date: May 15, 2006

I post comments to this board only (a) when someone offers unsubstantiated leftist propaganda, and only then (b) to prove that not all readers of this board are leftists. Patriot comes close to fulfilling condition (a) in his comment above, but not close enough.

I'll ignore LVN's comment, because I generally value what she has to say.

Date: May 15, 2006

Lest, it was sort of a joke.

Date: May 15, 2006

Lest we forget wrote:

I post comments to this board only (a) when someone offers unsubstantiated leftist propaganda, and only then (b) to prove that not all readers of this board are leftists. Patriot comes close to fulfilling condition (a) in his comment above, but not close enough. I'll ignore LVN's comment, because I generally value what she has to say.

Well, Lest, I guess we'll have to wait for "Off the Plantation" to crank this up. I'm glad to hear that I'm not leftist enough, (or is it that my statement has been substantiated in your opinion?). Or is it that you don't consider my statement propaganda? I hope I satisfied all three of these part (a) conditions.

p.s. LVN, things were so slow this afternoon, I thought we could get a good discussion going. However, too many "liberals" may be on vacation this week.

Date: May 15, 2006

Patriot, I think today may be the deadline for grades. The faculty people I saw at church yesterday were all headed home to do grading.

Date: May 15, 2006

LVN wrote:

Lest, it was sort of a joke.

Thanks for the explanation, LVN! I truly do value your opinions, so I'm glad to know you were just ribbing us.

Date: May 16, 2006

Patriot wrote:

Is the scientific method the antithesis of Capitalism?

No. I believe the original point of the thread is that some Chinese professors believe that trademark violations, patent infringement & outright intellectual property theft is pretty much what capitalism is about.

But looking at this through the lens of the history of science, I have to wonder if the emphasis on making a fast buck stalls the free dissemination of scientific research & if "capitalism" in the long run isn't killing the goose that laid the golden egg. (This is quite the reverse of your thesis, "Patriot.")

Date: May 16, 2006

Just disregard that last post. Patriot is not who I thought I was responding to. I think.

Date: May 17, 2006

Invictus wrote:

Patriot wrote: Is the scientific method the antithesis of Capitalism?

No. I believe the original point of the thread is that some Chinese professors believe that trademark violations, patent infringement & outright intellectual property theft is pretty much what capitalism is about. But looking at this through the lens of the history of science, I have to wonder if the emphasis on making a fast buck stalls the free dissemination of scientific research & if "capitalism" in the long run isn't killing the goose that laid the golden egg. (This is quite the reverse of your thesis, "Patriot.")

Invictus, what I marked in bold is exactly what I was talking about. I thought "Off the Plantation " would have jumped in by now.

Date: May 17, 2006

1 scientist in a totally screwed up country acts stupid and the end of the academic world is foretold.

"literal" arts types have been screwing up for years through all types of corruption and yet it no one claims that the world is sliding into the crevace ...

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/05/10/ucprof.html

"UC Professor Accused Of Plagiarism

The head of University of Cincinnati's German-American studies is being investigated for plagiarism.

George Mason University's history news network reports that portions of Don Heinrich Tolzmann's book, "The German-American Experience" were taken from another book written in the 60's.

Tolzmann said he admits in his preface that he had revised and expanded on the other work, and thought that was adequate. "

Date: May 17, 2006

Obviousman wrote:

1 scientist in a totally screwed up country acts stupid and the end of the academic world is foretold. "literal" arts types have been screwing up for years through all types of corruption and yet it no one claims that the world is sliding into the crevace ... http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/05/10/ucprof.html "UC Professor Accused Of Plagiarism The head of University of Cincinnati's German-American studies is being investigated for plagiarism. George Mason University's history news network reports that portions of Don Heinrich Tolzmann's book, "The German-American Experience" were taken from another book written in the 60's. Tolzmann said he admits in his preface that he had revised and expanded on the other work, and thought that was adequate. "

With all due respect, Obviousman, I don't think we can compare corruption in the sciences, affecting our knowledge of the physical world and the advantage that provides us, with plagiarism (and other corruptions) that may occur in the Liberal Arts. We all know lawyers have been bending the truth since time began, but we still survived.

Date: May 17, 2006

Unbridled,unfettered capitalism while not perfect is still the greatest system of them all. May God continue to bless the USA and the almighty dollar.

Date: May 17, 2006

Obviousman wrote:

1 scientist in a totally screwed up country acts stupid and the end of the academic world is foretold.

Ob(li)viousman,

Before suggesting that I am hysterical you might have taken the time to read the article. The following quote rebuts your contention that I am foolishly basing my beliefs on the bad behavior of one scientist:

"Professor Chen is really unlucky," said a male student named Wu, who asked not to be further identified for fear of recriminations. "He lied and was caught. I think there are other people faking their research, but they haven't been caught yet. He's probably not the worst."

The article also mentions that a former FCC commissioner has expressed concerns about the behavior of the Chinese in this regard and that he sees in their lawlessness a threat to our economic well being.

China may be "a totally screwed up country" but at present they are "eating our lunch." And while I would hope that the American scientific community is, on the whole, more honest than its Chinese counterpart, we are by no means immune from temptation.

Date: May 17, 2006

Mr. Wizard wrote:

The article also mentions that a former FCC commissioner has expressed concerns about the behavior of the Chinese in this regard and that he sees in their lawlessness a threat to our economic well being.

I think the real concern involves intellectual property issues rather than the process of science itself. Prof. Chen was ripping off someone else's R&D. and re-selling it as his own just as surely as a gazillion other folks in China sell pirated copies of Micro$oft Windows or Brittney Spears CDs.

Date: May 17, 2006

Call A. "Dvorak" Godwin, she has all the answers to Economic Development. After all her "credentials" speak for her! HA, HA!

Date: May 19, 2006

Obviousman wrote:

1 scientist in a totally screwed up country acts stupid and the end of the academic world is foretold.
"literal" arts types have been screwing up for years through all types of corruption and yet it no one claims that the world is sliding into the crevace ...
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/05/10/ucprof.html
"UC Professor Accused Of Plagiarism
The head of University of Cincinnati's German-American studies is being investigated for plagiarism.
George Mason University's history news network reports that portions of Don Heinrich Tolzmann's book, "The German-American Experience" were taken from another book written in the 60's.
Tolzmann said he admits in his preface that he had revised and expanded on the other work, and thought that was adequate. "

I do not know Tolzmann, but I know of him and his work. I don't intend to do the digging that would be necessary in order to defend him. However, a Google search turned up only a few references to this matter, mostly along the lines of "Whatever happened to these charges?" The other 150-odd pages list countless papers, addresses, awards, books, and community work, in the areas of German-Americana and library science. I wonder why Obviousman singled out this seemingly questionable example involving a fairly obscure individual when he could have mentioned, say, Doris Kearns Goodwin (whose book "Team of Rivals : The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln," seems to be doing well), or, better yet, William D. McCain--both of whom would be better known to readers of this board.

Date: May 19, 2006

Or Stephen Ambrose - late Mississippi resident and well known to the "patriotism as history" crowd. Ambrose was a classic example of letting dollars cloud his scholarly judgement. We don't have any such people working at USM now do we?

On McCain - isn't it embarrassing that USM has an academic building named after a proven plagiarist?