Troll Bait in the Abyss - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 12, 2004

Troll Bait in the Abyss

Date: Jun 12, 2004

Chess, I have a very short question for you.
Is the "end game" still proceeding or has it been defeated?

Thanks for your informative narrative.

Date: Jun 12, 2004

Otherside,

As the "disinterested party" was never part of the strategy, it doesn't matter and doesn't change the endgame....

Chess

Date: Jun 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Chess
"Otherside,
As the "disinterested party" was never part of the strategy, it doesn't matter and doesn't change the endgame....
Chess"

Now that's the kind of answer I expected from the old Chess. Welcome back.

Date: Jun 12, 2004

Chess,

Thank you for such a thought provoking post. We needed that ~ I imagine (and hope) it stimulates the board in very positive ways. No Quarter!

Let Freedom Ring

P.S. Now that you've given a longer writing sample than usual, I see that you are quite articulate!

Date: Jun 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Let Freedom Ring
"Chess, Thank you for such a thought provoking post. We needed that ~ I imagine (and hope) it stimulates the board in very positive ways. No Quarter! Let Freedom Ring P.S. Now that you've given a longer writing sample than usual, I see that you are quite articulate!"

Welcome back Chess -- An excellent opening post with a lot of meat to chew on.

You are right -- it will be a long struggle. And -- unless some new crisis erupts, a much more subtle one. That is less than we had hoped, but it was not unexpected.

These conversations continue to be important, even if the feeling of urgency has changed to embody something that will need patience and planning. The summer is a slow time and of course, none of our elected bodies are really up to full speed.

But there is alot of watching going on and a lot of conversation within those bodies and increasingly individuals beyond.

Some very positive things have happened (although they cannot balance the terrible things that have happened). We have gained powerful friends in the community and the state. The tide of sympathy is not with Shelby -- even though that tide is not as actively resistent as we are, it has a dampening affect on the administration in subtle ways.

Shelby has lot most of the cabal. Angela is hanging on by a thread -- she's pretty much living on borrowed time at this point. Notice how quiet and less visible Mader has been?

The President is actually, finally, beginning to act like a President. It doesn't make too much differecne that he is being forced to do it -- the fact is that he is doing it. It should say a lot about how successful the anti-administration forces have been up to this point, even if we couldn't pull off a full palace coup.

The question for all of us at this point is how can we start putting the university back together even as a central problem continues to exist, albeit in much reduced form.

There is a subtle problem for us here -- how to continue to resist oppressive actions; discover and publicize bad decisions or inept or corrupt behavior . . . even as we try to convince people (supporters, potential students and interviewing faculty) that the university still has its best days ahead of it.

Those os us who have a stake in the future of this place need to work out this paradox constructively . . . .

Date: Jun 13, 2004

bump

Date: Jun 13, 2004

Chess,

I greatly appreciate your detailed post and hope you will continue to post these kinds of lengthy (or at least explicit) observations. I now have a much clearer idea of where you stand and what you are working towards. It would help someone like me to know as clearly and explicitly as possibly (insofar as you can afford such candor) what you think "outsiders" like myself can do to help the larger, broader, long-run cause. As you say, I and others originally got involved because of indignation at what had happened to Professors Glamser and Stringer, but I and others also want to help make sure that things do improve at USM for all the good folks who are left. Any practical suggestions you can offer would be much appreciated.

Date: Jun 14, 2004

Excellent posts above . . . hat's off to the authors . . . but I think that the "endgame" is staring all of us straight in the face, despite our best efforts to refuse to see it!

Will SFT continue to "tone down", start acting civil, continue to "try" to communicate?

Doesn't matter.

Is there a consipracy going on amoung the "power brokers" of the IHL, business leaders, etc? Will it ever come out?

Won't make a difference.

Is there really a fight going on between SFT and Bower? Will Bower be ousted?

Who cares.

Why, you ask? Because, if you have been following Babbs excellent posts recording the number of faculty / staff leaving the university, you can figure out the end game very quickly.

Quite simply, I believe that there isn't going to be much of a USM left within the next 18-24 months. You see, you can't have a university without a faculty. And the faculty, they are a' leaving. Can anyone honestly say that the students won't be far behind?

When the Glamser/Stringer fiasco first hit, I wrote several letters to the editors of various newspapers around the state, including one to Fire Shelby himself, basically stating that the damage had already been done. USM was recieving national attention in the worst possible way, to the effect that Southern Miss was the school you absolutely did not want to become a part of if you were a faculty member. You remember all of the issues with SFT and the administration; cronyism, favoritism, lack of communication, dictatorial management tactics. And Fire Shelby had ample evidence to back up each and every charge. Slam Dunk . . .

The result? Look at Babbs latest post: 113 known to be leaving, on top of 112 already gone, with God-only-knows how many contemplating leaving. Graduate Nursing is already gone for at least 12 months.

Is SFT involved in an illicit relationship with Angie D, having secret "sessions" with her in his Dome office, all while being surrepticiously videotaped by an outraged Lisa Mader who hopes to use the evidence to blackmail SFT into making her a Vice President?

WHO CARES!!!!!

I believe that it is time to drop the rumors, skip the wonderful consipracy theories, let go of the stimulating intellectual conversations, and take some action.

Is the goal to get rid of SFT, or is it to save what is left of USM, with the hope of rebuilding in the future? If the goal is to hopefully save USM, will working with SFT now help to accomplish that? Or will getting rid of SFT accomplish the goal of saving USM? Please understand that I am not advocating any of these positions, I am posing them as questions that need to be answered, because I don't think that they have been. Before a concrete course of action can be decided upon you, the USM faculty members and staff who are reading this, must answer them. Make this decision first, then move forward with a plan of action.

This is the official USM-AAUP message board, sponsored by the official USM chapter of the AAUP. As a former student, I implore the AAUP to start the process of making the alumni of this university aware of what is going on. Make them understand that the school they love is being destroyed, one missing faculty member at a time. Get in contact with the Alumni Assn. and make them understand. You may want to get the Faculty Senate involved as well.

Let the various news outlets in the region know. Find a reporter somewhere that is willing to dig in to this story and not let it go. I feel sure that there must be at least one somewhere in this area that will do this. Let them make the public aware, thus adding credibility to the cause, instead of releasing it yourselves at the risk of being called whining faculty members trying to tear down the school.

Once these things have been accomplished, it will be time to address all of the issues that came together during the Glamser/Stringer days: Shared governance, e-mail monitoring, dictatorial management, cronyism, etc. With Alumni and public support on your side, I think that you will be able to accomplish much, including the demise of SFT if that is what you decide.

Finally, when good things do start to happen again, the Faculty Senate and the AAUP MUST let the academic world outside of USM know, so that those good faculty members will start thinking about USM as a viable option again.

So, I urge all of you who are personally involved, faculty, staff members, even students, to roll up your sleeves and get to work. I urge you to start now and to work quickly, while you still have desks to work at.

Date: Jun 14, 2004

Late night thoughtful summations by Present Professor...the world already begins to feel more sane and secure!

Otherside, perhaps it's time to take another look at the IHL board publications - particularly at the strategic plan and clustered annual goals - and remind everyone, including ourselves, of the framework USM is operating within. You were the original in suggesting an alternative way of thinking.

Let Freedom Ring, thank you Sir or Madam. It must have been the great liberal arts professors I had as an undergraduate!

USM Sympathizer, did you read the thread about Dr. Stringer going to Texas A&M? The list of contacts referenced by Robert Evans was "USM Sympathizer's" - any doubt about the value of your contribution?

A reminder - Chess is not a regular poster - stepped back from the play table only at the invitation of several friends - silence does not imply disinterest or inactivity. Hope the next time I come back will only be to say "that's three"...

Date: Jun 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Alum
"Excellent posts above . . . hat's off to the authors . . . but I think that the "endgame" is staring all of us straight in the face, despite our best efforts to refuse to see it! Will SFT continue to "tone down", start acting civil, continue to "try" to communicate? Doesn't matter. Is there a consipracy going on amoung the "power brokers" of the IHL, business leaders, etc? Will it ever come out? Won't make a difference. Is there really a fight going on between SFT and Bower? Will Bower be ousted? Who cares. Why, you ask? Because, if you have been following Babbs excellent posts recording the number of faculty / staff leaving the university, you can figure out the end game very quickly. Quite simply, I believe that there isn't going to be much of a USM left within the next 18-24 months. You see, you can't have a university without a faculty. And the faculty, they are a' leaving. Can anyone honestly say that the students won't be far behind? When the Glamser/Stringer fiasco first hit, I wrote several letters to the editors of various newspapers around the state, including one to Fire Shelby himself, basically stating that the damage had already been done. USM was recieving national attention in the worst possible way, to the effect that Southern Miss was the school you absolutely did not want to become a part of if you were a faculty member. You remember all of the issues with SFT and the administration; cronyism, favoritism, lack of communication, dictatorial management tactics. And Fire Shelby had ample evidence to back up each and every charge. Slam Dunk . . . The result? Look at Babbs latest post: 113 known to be leaving, on top of 112 already gone, with God-only-knows how many contemplating leaving. Graduate Nursing is already gone for at least 12 months. Is SFT involved in an illicit relationship with Angie D, having secret "sessions" with her in his Dome office, all while being surrepticiously videotaped by an outraged Lisa Mader who hopes to use the evidence to blackmail SFT into making her a Vice President? WHO CARES!!!!! I believe that it is time to drop the rumors, skip the wonderful consipracy theories, let go of the stimulating intellectual conversations, and take some action. Is the goal to get rid of SFT, or is it to save what is left of USM, with the hope of rebuilding in the future? If the goal is to hopefully save USM, will working with SFT now help to accomplish that? Or will getting rid of SFT accomplish the goal of saving USM? Please understand that I am not advocating any of these positions, I am posing them as questions that need to be answered, because I don't think that they have been. Before a concrete course of action can be decided upon you, the USM faculty members and staff who are reading this, must answer them. Make this decision first, then move forward with a plan of action. This is the official USM-AAUP message board, sponsored by the official USM chapter of the AAUP. As a former student, I implore the AAUP to start the process of making the alumni of this university aware of what is going on. Make them understand that the school they love is being destroyed, one missing faculty member at a time. Get in contact with the Alumni Assn. and make them understand. You may want to get the Faculty Senate involved as well. Let the various news outlets in the region know. Find a reporter somewhere that is willing to dig in to this story and not let it go. I feel sure that there must be at least one somewhere in this area that will do this. Let them make the public aware, thus adding credibility to the cause, instead of releasing it yourselves at the risk of being called whining faculty members trying to tear down the school. Once these things have been accomplished, it will be time to address all of the issues that came together during the Glamser/Stringer days: Shared governance, e-mail monitoring, dictatorial management, cronyism, etc. With Alumni and public support on your side, I think that you will be able to accomplish much, including the demise of SFT if that is what you decide. Finally, when good things do start to happen again, the Faculty Senate and the AAUP MUST let the academic world outside of USM know, so that those good faculty members will start thinking about USM as a viable option again. So, I urge all of you who are personally involved, faculty, staff members, even students, to roll up your sleeves and get to work. I urge you to start now and to work quickly, while you still have desks to work at."

Thoughtful post...sorry we crossed in submissions...

Date: Jun 14, 2004

Chess,

Thank you for stepping out of the shadows and offering an extended analysis of the situation.

I could tell that trolls were becoming much sharper and more manipulative toward the end of Fire Shelby board, when it became impossible to verify that Mark Dvorak was being pushed out. Everyone has since learned that he was being pushed out...and that the rumors that circulated right after Hanbury was fired were true.

From a vantage point hundreds of miles from Hattiesburg, I simply don't have the information that you do. Neither do many other readers of this board. So I hope you will continue to contribute here.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jun 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: present professor
" The President is actually, finally, beginning to act like a President. It doesn't make too much differecne that he is being forced to do it -- the fact is that he is doing it. It should say a lot about how successful the anti-administration forces have been up to this point, even if we couldn't pull off a full palace coup. "

My mama used to say that she didn't care why I behaved as long as I behaved!

Date: Jun 15, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Alum
"Excellent posts above . . . hat's off to the authors . . . but I think that the "endgame" is staring all of us straight in the face, despite our best efforts to refuse to see it! Will SFT continue to "tone down", start acting civil, continue to "try" to communicate? Doesn't matter. Is there a consipracy going on amoung the "power brokers" of the IHL, business leaders, etc? Will it ever come out? Won't make a difference. Is there really a fight going on between SFT and Bower? Will Bower be ousted? Who cares. Why, you ask? Because, if you have been following Babbs excellent posts recording the number of faculty / staff leaving the university, you can figure out the end game very quickly. Quite simply, I believe that there isn't going to be much of a USM left within the next 18-24 months. You see, you can't have a university without a faculty. And the faculty, they are a' leaving. Can anyone honestly say that the students won't be far behind? When the Glamser/Stringer fiasco first hit, I wrote several letters to the editors of various newspapers around the state, including one to Fire Shelby himself, basically stating that the damage had already been done. USM was recieving national attention in the worst possible way, to the effect that Southern Miss was the school you absolutely did not want to become a part of if you were a faculty member. You remember all of the issues with SFT and the administration; cronyism, favoritism, lack of communication, dictatorial management tactics. And Fire Shelby had ample evidence to back up each and every charge. Slam Dunk . . . The result? Look at Babbs latest post: 113 known to be leaving, on top of 112 already gone, with God-only-knows how many contemplating leaving. Graduate Nursing is already gone for at least 12 months. Is SFT involved in an illicit relationship with Angie D, having secret "sessions" with her in his Dome office, all while being surrepticiously videotaped by an outraged Lisa Mader who hopes to use the evidence to blackmail SFT into making her a Vice President? WHO CARES!!!!! I believe that it is time to drop the rumors, skip the wonderful consipracy theories, let go of the stimulating intellectual conversations, and take some action. Is the goal to get rid of SFT, or is it to save what is left of USM, with the hope of rebuilding in the future? If the goal is to hopefully save USM, will working with SFT now help to accomplish that? Or will getting rid of SFT accomplish the goal of saving USM? Please understand that I am not advocating any of these positions, I am posing them as questions that need to be answered, because I don't think that they have been. Before a concrete course of action can be decided upon you, the USM faculty members and staff who are reading this, must answer them. Make this decision first, then move forward with a plan of action. This is the official USM-AAUP message board, sponsored by the official USM chapter of the AAUP. As a former student, I implore the AAUP to start the process of making the alumni of this university aware of what is going on. Make them understand that the school they love is being destroyed, one missing faculty member at a time. Get in contact with the Alumni Assn. and make them understand. You may want to get the Faculty Senate involved as well. Let the various news outlets in the region know. Find a reporter somewhere that is willing to dig in to this story and not let it go. I feel sure that there must be at least one somewhere in this area that will do this. Let them make the public aware, thus adding credibility to the cause, instead of releasing it yourselves at the risk of being called whining faculty members trying to tear down the school. Once these things have been accomplished, it will be time to address all of the issues that came together during the Glamser/Stringer days: Shared governance, e-mail monitoring, dictatorial management, cronyism, etc. With Alumni and public support on your side, I think that you will be able to accomplish much, including the demise of SFT if that is what you decide. Finally, when good things do start to happen again, the Faculty Senate and the AAUP MUST let the academic world outside of USM know, so that those good faculty members will start thinking about USM as a viable option again. So, I urge all of you who are personally involved, faculty, staff members, even students, to roll up your sleeves and get to work. I urge you to start now and to work quickly, while you still have desks to work at."

kick

Date: Jun 23, 2004

I bumped this because we are letting the new, more sophisticated trolls increase the hate, but hurt the cause.

Today was a good day -- actually a win-win day. AD was moved into a position where she can be very effective, and she is no longer in the USM administration. Remember the goal was to work for a qualified academic in the VP position, not to destroy AD. Another goal accomplished!

We have many good faculty members here, and many good administrators too. Despite what some on this board seem to suggest, all universities need people filling adminstrative roles. We must not let the hate mongers distract our efforts to make USM more student and faculty friendly (and perhaps even administrator friendly). Focus on the war, don't get distracted by the decoys who only care about their personal agendas.

I encourage all to reread the warnings of chess!

Date: Jun 23, 2004

Checkers,

I disagree that AD will be effective running the Research Foundation. She doesn't seem to have done very well at it up to now.

It would be better if she were out of USM entirely. But at least her ability to do harm has been substantially reduced.

Robert Campbell