Thames vs. Bower - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 9, 2004

Thames vs. Bower

Date: Jun 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
"After reading guru's latest rumors concerning Thames and Bower, and several earlier comments concerning their strained relationship, I'm still trying to connect the dots. See if I have this correct--

1. Thames wishes to can Bower because...he's not a Thames sycophant, he hasn't been able to beat the higher profile teams on the schedule, and because SFT believes he can pick up a "big name" coach, like Eustachey, on the open market.

2. Klumb is backing the Thames presidency because he knows that Thames, if successful in running Bower off, will mortally wound the USM football program, thus elevating the relative position of MSU within the state's athletic pecking order.

Having seen and heard Klumb speak, it's hard for me to imagine him capable of this advanced level of conspiratorial thinking. Is that about it, or have I missed something?

AE"

If Klump was a chess player, he'd have difficulty thinking one move ahead....

Date: Jun 9, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Anonymous
"

If Klump was a chess player, he'd have difficulty thinking one move ahead....
"

My point precisely.

AE

Date: Jun 9, 2004

Austin,

You've been asking for a few days now about the Bower/Thames get-a-long. I'll go ahead and tell you the bedtime story so you can get some rest.

I know what happened at the Liberty Bowl, but there may have been stuff before that. I don't think so because the week before the Liberty Bowl, Giainni announced that Bower would get a great extension, etc.

Everything was wrapped up in a great package when the troops left for Memphis.

Two things happened in Memphis that SFT could not get over. (1) We lost the game (badly) and there is a reason we lost

(2) Ole Miss sent the sleek jet to pick up the few IHL members and whisk them to the Cotton Bowl either before the game or at half time.

If you were anywhere near the Presidential Suite during the Liberty Bowl, you could not have missed the $%^&*(*(*&&^% regarding our coaching staff and our coach.

Last fall all the eggs were in the football helment. The new turf, the new stadium, new logo, new uniforms, new USM, unbeatable, omnipotent, impotent, etc.

Gianninni and SFT sold the city, county, adp, pta, usda, aspca, etc. on the stadium concept and the huge amount of EEEEEEEEEECCCCCO DEVVVVVV that would magically appear if everyone would just do what they said. It was a win win winwinwinwinwinwinwin deal. Just don't think about it. Just do it.

Sorry for that tirade. I took a pill. I'm better now.

Anyway, when Bower got home and started recruiting, SFT started micromanaging the recruiting process. We needed more Polymer Science majors on the team. We needed Presidential Scholars on the team... (just kidding, but you get the drift). Bower told SFT that he could take care of football and the next thing we know there are coaches taking the fall. Apparently SFT made a promise to Nix, Jr. for a job so that had to get rid of the guy from Waynesboro to move people around so Nix, Jr. could be a coach. You notice there was not a lawsuit against USM about anyone's kidneys.

Looking back at the events, it sound like no president in their right mind would do such stuff.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Kansas City Flyer
" We lost the game (badly) and there is a reason we lost . . .. "

Thanks for an interesting morning post. K.C. Would you mind explaining the reason we lost? I infer that it was the result of a coaching decision rather than player error.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Bubba also loves football, but too bad the university authorities don't worry about losing valuable faculty members such as G. Stringer and F. Glamser as much as they worry about losing a football game.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Kansas City Flyer
"Austin,
You've been asking for a few days now about the Bower/Thames get-a-long. I'll go ahead and tell you the bedtime story so you can get some rest.
"

KC,

If you read this board regularly, as do I, you'll have noticed many pregnant comments about the SFT-Bower rift, and more recently, rumors that Thames now intends to topple Bower. As an out-of-town USM sports fan, and one who respects Bower as an ethical person doing his best to operate in an amoral profession, I have wondered about the etiology of this conflict. It isn't surprising that ethical conduct would be anathema to Thames, but when talk of Bower's ouster was coupled with a Klumb orchestrated conspiracy to elevate MSU athletics, the tale began to resemble a bad Tom Clancy novel and my curiosity was whetted. Hence my posting of the two questions to which you refer. So, while I haven't lost any sleep over this soap opera, I do thank you for your learned treatise on the current state of affairs. That said, I still don't believe Klumb has sufficient gray matter to have conceived the master plan now attributed to him. If I'm wrong, he hides it well.

By the way, I agree that the Liberty Bowl performance was embarrassing and pathetic. It would be interesting to learn what went wrong, and why.

AE

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Based upon the posts in this thread, I find it interesting that there is a belief that Klumb supports Sleezo Thames because Klumb wants Jeff Bower out so Mistake can do better in football. Yet Mistake would not play us for the last 15 years and has no plans to play us in the future. The same for unm.

Both mistake and unm had much better recruiting classes from Mississippi when all three teams played each other regularly. Currently, a lot of the top h.s. talent (that can not be bought) just leaves the state each year for SEC teams that regularly beat these two.

Mistake's problem in FB was not Jeff or USM, it was a program that had (and still has) a 'win at any cost' mentality that allowed the inmates to run the assylum. It was all about what the alumni could pay some idiot to play for them. So the people on the team that truly cared, quit caring. It is a close analogy to what SFT is doing to the academic programs at USM.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Bubba, an ardant football fan and former Eagle Club member, was taught in elementary school that football builds character. Bubba learned in high school that it doesn't really matter whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game. I suppose those principles must change when you go to college. Too bad.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

This is truly a battle between No character vs Character. Character will probably find a better paying position at a far more prestigious university and athletic program and leave No Character to prance around the pretty empty football stadium on Sat. afternoon reveling in the fact that he "won" another ignorant battle.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Educator is right.

Jeff Bower is a class act. Yes, he's human. He's not perfect. He makes mistakes. But he is a decent man. And he is LOYAL to the institution called the University of Southern Mississippi.

That's part of the problem. Thames doesn't want people to be loyal to USM. He wants them to be loyal to him.

Thames is listening to some people who are more interested in being able to control a sports program with their money (which is, last time I checked, something of which the NCAA takes an extremely dim view). If Thames were to run JB off, USM would be back in the old "four years & gone" Curley Hallman mode.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Bubba Loves Catfish
"Bubba also loves football, but too bad the university authorities don't worry about losing valuable faculty members such as G. Stringer and F. Glamser as much as they worry about losing a football game. "

For my money, one of the best comments of late about the whole sorry mess.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
"Educator is right. Jeff Bower is a class act. Yes, he's human. He's not perfect. He makes mistakes. But he is a decent man. And he is LOYAL to the institution called the University of Southern Mississippi. That's part of the problem. Thames doesn't want people to be loyal to USM. He wants them to be loyal to him. Thames is listening to some people who are more interested in being able to control a sports program with their money (which is, last time I checked, something of which the NCAA takes an extremely dim view). If Thames were to run JB off, USM would be back in the old "four years & gone" Curley Hallman mode."

I agree, Bowers IS a class act. So, here lies the problem. Faculty and faculty supporters in the community are unhappy with the administration and don't get their season tickets renewed. Attendence at games fall off, SFT uses this as one more "reason" to get rid of JB for "lack of fan support". How do we support Bowers and prevent SFT from using this to get rid of him?

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Green Hornet, Yes herein lies the rub. But, SFT will get rid of Bower in any instance. He'll use the fan support issue just like he used that ominous "wait till you hear the rest of the story" warning prior to the G & S halfbaked hearing. I'm waiting till the public outcry when Bower takes it upon himself to leave without getting the official heave-ho. One more legion of USM supporters to tick off. And, yes it's not about academics, but then again it sort of is because Jeff is a believer in academic standards and values his own USM degree. It's scary to think about what type of replacement we might get if SFT gets his way (once again).

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"Green Hornet, Yes herein lies the rub. But, SFT will get rid of Bower in any instance. He'll use the fan support issue just like he used that ominous "wait till you hear the rest of the story" warning prior to the G & S halfbaked hearing. I'm waiting till the public outcry when Bower takes it upon himself to leave without getting the official heave-ho. One more legion of USM supporters to tick off. And, yes it's not about academics, but then again it sort of is because Jeff is a believer in academic standards and values his own USM degree. It's scary to think about what type of replacement we might get if SFT gets his way (once again)."

Educator, I agree that SFT will get rid of Bowers no matter what. In terms of "replacement" who ever comes in will take advantage of the Bowers recruits, stay here four year and then leave. This will develop a "revolving door" with coaches coming and going and academics (athletes graduation rates) declining. One positive you mention is Bowers belief in academics. He has always expressed concern about his players completing thier degrees, resulting in a high graduation rate. Can we at least make it more difficult for SFT to get rid of Bowers?

Date: Jun 10, 2004

Green Hornet, I'm with you. I'm all for making it more difficult. Of course the best solution would be to get rid of SFT! That'd solve the problem. LOL.

Date: Jun 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: educator
"Green Hornet, I'm with you. I'm all for making it more difficult. Of course the best solution would be to get rid of SFT! That'd solve the problem. LOL."

Is there any discussion on "EAGLE TALK" on this issue?

How much support does Bower have with the general public, or how much support is SFT getting in sacking Bower?

Date: Jun 11, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"
Is there any discussion on "EAGLE TALK" on this issue?
How much support does Bower have with the general public, or how much support is SFT getting in sacking Bower?"

First, you have to bear in mind that about half the people who post on Eagle Talk are seriously maladjusted trolls who believe that USM really could be Notre Dame if it had the right coach. So what's being said over there is not particularly indicative of reality.

Second, it doesn't matter how much support Bower has in the general public if a few "big money people" say Bower goes. For an example of what "big money people" can do to a football program, check out the current NCAA sanctions at Alabama.

Date: Jul 6, 2004

kick

Date: Jul 6, 2004

Point of information, Eagle Talk had a poll up a few weeks ago about the Bower contract. More than 73% voted to give Bower a new longer contract.

There is some discussion on Eagle Talk about all of this, but it's on the preminum board (paid membership). The local guru (L) believes that Bower will be gone if Thames remains president, and lays out a pretty detailed argument with legitiment reasons.

I would repost it here put preminum content is copy protected on Eagle Talk. But, L says if you don't see Bower sign a contract before summer practice starts, he's gone, win or lose.

Date: Jul 6, 2004

I keep reading all of these postings about the current conflict with Iowa regarding the Eagle Logo, and also the message board discussions regarding USM football coaching matters. Playing politics regarding university affairs can be very expensive. I recall that in January, 1995, USM was one of the principal players in voting Virginia Tech and Virginia Commonwealth University out of the now- defunct Metro Conference to which all three belonged at the time. The Chronicle of Higher Education printed a very lenghy editorial describing details of the sordid mess. On or around January 26, 1995, the two ousted schools filed a lawsuit in the Circuit Court of Richmond. On February 3, just one month after the suit was filed, there was a $2.27 million dollar settlement, the proceeds of which were split between Virginia Tech and VCU. $2.27 million dollars. Yes indeed, mixing politics with university affairs can be expensive.

Date: Jul 6, 2004

KCF

You've got some pretty good info, but Gandy wasn't fired to make room for Derrick Nix. He was fired because he couldn't recruit, and the backs were poorly coached since he took over there.

And, Nix has a lawsuit against the drug companies and the USM team doctors pending. It dosen't and never has included USM or the coaches.

Date: Jul 6, 2004

If Klumb was a chess player, he wouldn't be klumb.

quote:

Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
" My point precisely. AE"