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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> See More #84
Post Info TOPIC: See More #84
See More

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See More #84
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See More #84


geocities.com/seemore004



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Maytwenty O'Seben

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Moses could have not received them any better. Thanks See More.

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Emma

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AMEN!! 

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Voter

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Getting this message at geocities:

"Are you the site owner? Avoid service interruptions in the future by increasing your data transfer limit!"

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USM Sympathizer

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Voter wrote:

Getting this message at geocities: "Are you the site owner? Avoid service interruptions in the future by increasing your data transfer limit!"

This just means that so many people have been looking at See More's latest bit of brilliance that the band width has been exceeded temporarily.  Wait an hour and try again.


 



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Voter

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Wickedly funny--maybe the best one yet!
Keep 'em coming, See More!

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The Man

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That's actually kind of lame...and telling of your respect for the Christian belief and religion in general. Blaspheme, anyone?

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The Responder

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The Man wrote:

That's actually kind of lame...and telling of your respect for the Christian belief and religion in general. Blaspheme, anyone?
Huh?  What?  Don't be diss'n See More.  See More's message speaks to this audience - if you don't like it, there ARE other sites to contrbute to . . . .

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Jameela Lares

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The Man wrote:
That's actually kind of lame...and telling of your respect for the Christian belief and religion in general. Blaspheme, anyone?


With all due respect, TM, this satire, biting though it be, is not blasphemous. The first step into the light for most of us could be to realize how often all of us wish to live as though the Commandments *were* very different, and were written to facilitate how *we* wanted the world to work. Indeed, those rather who claim to "respect" a text yet not put it into practice--who imagine that God is somehow fooled by outward shows of piety without corresponding inward graces--are far guiltier of blasphemy. (Note that "blaspheme" is the verb, not the noun.)

There are plenty of examples of satire in Scripture, especially in the prophets, who said and did some pretty shocking things to call people back to right thinking and acting. And the Ten Commandments are properly part of the Jewish portion of the Scriptures, not the Christian portion. The "new testament" mentioned by the prophet Jeremiah is written in the heart, not on stone.

And finally, God or G-d has a great sense of humor. After all, He made *us*.

JL

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Cossack

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Humor has limits, but the See More #84 post does not exceed the limit. I have always wondered why one has to vocalize their belief in God. One can observe a person and determine by their behavior if they are religious. Conversely, those who attack religion and believers likewise demonstrate their narrowness and lack of tolerance. Those who are religious should treat everyone with respect and those who are anti religious should also if they are to have any credibility.




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Angeline

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The Man wrote:
That's actually kind of lame...and telling of your respect for the Christian belief and religion in general. Blaspheme, anyone?


Well, if it is anti-religion in any way, which it is not, wouldn't it be anti-Judaism? I have long wondered why the Protestant fundamentalists look so much to the Old Testament for their inspiration rather than to the words and actions of Jesus himself. Yeah, yeah, I know - a topic for another board.

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Atheist

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Cossack wrote:

... One can observe a person and determine by their behavior if they are religious. ...
I'm not taking offense here, Cossack, but wish to point out that this statement is really not true.  I know atheist whose moral code would put most Christians to shame.  I also know some "Christian" professionals whose actions make the community believe they are true believers.  However, these professional are atheist, but must keep it secret for "business purposes" in this Bible Belt country.  Just my $0.02 worth.

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Cossack

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I'm not taking offense here, Cossack, but wish to point out that this statement is really not true. I know atheist whose moral code would put most Christians to shame. I also know some "Christian" professionals whose actions make the community believe they are true believers. However, these professional are atheist, but must keep it secret for "business purposes" in this Bible Belt country. Just my $0.02 worth.

Implicit in my statement is the concept that one's moral code shapes their behavior. Since a religious belief or nonbelief is a personal aspect of ones life, actions are all the empirical evidence we have. I can evaluate behavior by looking at the evidence, I can then only infer, albeit with much error, beliefs. I think this is consistent with your post.

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Retiree 3

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Thanks, Jameela.

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Atheist

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Cossack wrote:

Implicit in my statement is the concept that one's moral code shapes their behavior. Since a religious belief or nonbelief is a personal aspect of ones life, actions are all the empirical evidence we have. I can evaluate behavior by looking at the evidence, I can then only infer, albeit with much error, beliefs. I think this is consistent with your post.

Yes, Cossack, may be consistent, but doesn't go far enough. Implicit in all of this is that the "good", "moral" person is the religious one and the person who isn't is the atheist.  Otherwise how can you judge who is religious based on observed behavior.  Your statement was, "One can observe a person and determine by their behavior if they are religious."  My point is religion is internal and external behavior doesn't provide evidence of the internal unless you assume "good behavior" = religious and "Bad behavior" = atheist,  which isn't true.


Who would think a weekly See More thread could get this deep? 



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StillAnEagle

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Cossack wrote:

I have always wondered why one has to vocalize their belief in God.

It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and of every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations. The new birth of man's spirit by God's Holy Spirit means the birth of love for others. Missionary effort on the part of all rests thus upon a spiritual necessity of the regenerate life, and is expressly and repeatedly commanded in the teachings of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ. 


Obviously, Christians are more successful at leading a Christian lifestyle than others and some athiests may live a more "Christian" existance than Christians.  However, the lifestyle is not what grants salvation.  The Savior does.  The short answer is that Christ commands it.


 



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Muslim

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StillAnEagle wrote:

It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and of every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations. The new birth of man's spirit by God's Holy Spirit means the birth of love for others. Missionary effort on the part of all rests thus upon a spiritual necessity of the regenerate life, and is expressly and repeatedly commanded in the teachings of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ.  Obviously, Christians are more successful at leading a Christian lifestyle than others and some athiests may live a more "Christian" existance than Christians.  However, the lifestyle is not what grants salvation.  The Savior does.  The short answer is that Christ commands it.  
Opps, we could have a problem here.  We believe the same way except we do more than talk and witness to convert people.   How do you think we can reslove this, besides killing one another that is? 

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Happy Passover

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Muslim wrote:




StillAnEagle wrote: It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and of every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations. The new birth of man's spirit by God's Holy Spirit means the birth of love for others. Missionary effort on the part of all rests thus upon a spiritual necessity of the regenerate life, and is expressly and repeatedly commanded in the teachings of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ.  Obviously, Christians are more successful at leading a Christian lifestyle than others and some athiests may live a more "Christian" existance than Christians.  However, the lifestyle is not what grants salvation.  The Savior does.  The short answer is that Christ commands it.  


Opps, we could have a problem here.  We believe the same way except we do more than talk and witness to convert people.   How do you think we can reslove this, besides killing one another that is? 



Conversion statements of this type raise concerns for Jews. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Pograms, the Protocols of Zion, Henry Ford's virulent Anti-Semitism, the KKK, and the Holocaust have arisen from attempts by the larger and more powerful religions of the world to convince Jews to see the light or to be liquidated. Never again.   

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Muslim

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Happy Passover wrote:

Conversion statements of this type raise concerns for Jews. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Pograms, the Protocols of Zion, Henry Ford's virulent Anti-Semitism, the KKK, and the Holocaust have arisen from attempts by the larger and more powerful religions of the world to convince Jews to see the light or to be liquidated. Never again.   
Agreed Passover.  We will always have this problem if each thinks they must convert the other.  Religions that have this as their "orders from on high" will always cause a problem.  Let's hope none think they hear voices telling them to act.  Since we know a certain percent of the population will have mental illness,  it seems inevitable trouble will occur.  Your post made it clearer than mine.

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StillAnEagle

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Happy Passover wrote:

Muslim wrote: StillAnEagle wrote: It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Christ and of every church of the Lord Jesus Christ to endeavor to make disciples of all nations. The new birth of man's spirit by God's Holy Spirit means the birth of love for others. Missionary effort on the part of all rests thus upon a spiritual necessity of the regenerate life, and is expressly and repeatedly commanded in the teachings of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ.  Obviously, Christians are more successful at leading a Christian lifestyle than others and some athiests may live a more "Christian" existance than Christians.  However, the lifestyle is not what grants salvation.  The Savior does.  The short answer is that Christ commands it.   Opps, we could have a problem here.  We believe the same way except we do more than talk and witness to convert people.   How do you think we can reslove this, besides killing one another that is?  Conversion statements of this type raise concerns for Jews. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Pograms, the Protocols of Zion, Henry Ford's virulent Anti-Semitism, the KKK, and the Holocaust have arisen from attempts by the larger and more powerful religions of the world to convince Jews to see the light or to be liquidated. Never again.   

Reluctantly, I will take the bait.  There is no doubt that many terrible things have been done in the name of religion.  I can't deny or condone this.  However, these approaches are completely against Christian teaching and God's nature.  God gave his creation free choice to love and trust Him or reject Him.  After the Messiah came, we were provided free choice to accept Him or reject Him.  It is every person's choice.  Threatening, degrading, murdering, etc. obviously aren't methods of "conversion" that would be considered a free choice.


Also, the goal of bringing people to Christ is not simply a conversion.  The goal is not just to get someone to "switch teams."  If you really believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life (and I do), then wouldn't you want to share this with everyone?  If not, then you would be cold and uncaring.  So, when you look at the motive for witnessing, it isn't about getting people to "join a club" as much as it is rescuing a soul. 


Now, I respect your right to believe what ever you like.  I believe I have a right to tell others what I believe.  I've told you and others on the board.  Whether you accept it or reject it, my work is done.


Laila tov!



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StillaMuslim

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It is the duty and privilege of every follower of Allah and of every mosque of the Prophet Mohammed to endeavor to make disciples of all nations. The new birth of man's spirit by Allah's Holy Spirit means the birth of love for others. Missionary effort on the part of all rests thus upon a spiritual necessity of the regenerate life, and is expressly and repeatedly commanded in the Koran. The Prophet has commanded the preaching of Islam to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Allah by verbal witness undergirded by a Muslim lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the teachings of the Prophet. 



Obviously, Muslims are more successful at leading an Islamic lifestyle than others and some athiests may live a more "Islamic" existance than Muslims.  However, the lifestyle is not what grants salvation.  Allah does.  The short answer is that Allah commands it.



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Infidel

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Would those other methods include fear of beheading?

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Voter

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StillAnEagle wrote:

The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded the preaching of the gospel to all nations. It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ. 



Pretty heavy proselytizing there, SAE-- "win the lost..." sounds fairly totalitarian to me. I can see other faiths are going to have to improve their ad campaigns--how 'bout: This Buddha's for you!

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Atheist

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StillAnEagle wrote:

 There is no doubt that many terrible things have been done in the name of religion.  I can't deny or condone this.  However, these approaches are completely against Christian teaching and God's nature.  God gave his creation free choice to love and trust Him or reject Him.  After the Messiah came, we were provided free choice to accept Him or reject Him.  It is every person's choice.  Threatening, degrading, murdering, etc. obviously aren't methods of "conversion" that would be considered a free choice. Also, the goal of bringing people to Christ is not simply a conversion.  The goal is not just to get someone to "switch teams."  If you really believe that Jesus is the only way to eternal life (and I do), then wouldn't you want to share this with everyone?  If not, then you would be cold and uncaring.  So, when you look at the motive for witnessing, it isn't about getting people to "join a club" as much as it is rescuing a soul.  Now, I respect your right to believe what ever you like.  I believe I have a right to tell others what I believe.  I've told you and others on the board.  Whether you accept it or reject it, my work is done. Laila tov!

You missed the point, StillAnEagle.  You are just saying what you believe.  In doing so you imply it is legitimate for you to believe in the supernatural.  So it is alright for others to believe in the supernatural.  But their beliefs are different from yours and for them God can command them to kill, just as he told Abraham to kill his son.  So it is necessary that they follow their belief system as you do yours.  Even Christians do this, for example, when they bomb abortion clinics, etc.  These belief systems are dangerous because some people in any group will be mentally ill and think God is speaking to them.


For us atheist all of this is unnecessary nonsense that leads to destruction.  If there was evidence for these belief systems then the true system or existence of God could be discovered.  But there is no objective evidence for the supernatural so we have to put up with people killing one another.  I don't think everyone has a right to believe, without evidence, anything they chose because it is too dangerous.  People must defend their beliefs with evidence.



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Cossack

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Atheist,

Which groups or individuals do atheist bomb or kill? Acts of violence against others seems to be an equal opportunity activity. Who do you trust?

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StillAnEagle

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Athiest,


Your post deserves a thoughtful and reasoned reply.  I am busy today grading papers, tests, and prepping for three lectures today.  I will reply as soon as I have enough time to devote to the response you deserve.



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Guardian Eagle

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StillAnEagle wrote:

Athiest, Your post deserves a thoughtful and reasoned reply.  I am busy today grading papers, tests, and prepping for three lectures today.  I will reply as soon as I have enough time to devote to the response you deserve.
StillAnEagle, my heart wants to participate in this discussion but my head tells me to refrain. I will listen to my head. Please know, however, that I find your comments very moving. 

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Atheist

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Cossack wrote:

Atheist, Which groups or individuals do atheist bomb or kill? Acts of violence against others seems to be an equal opportunity activity. Who do you trust?

Cossack,


I agree acts of violence are done by all groups, except those who don't use violence.  I was pointing out the motivation for the violence, that is, believers having no evidence in order to use reason to convince another, and being in the position that one's belief can't be true if the other is true.  In other words, it appears either all belief systems must be wrong except one or they are all wrong.   Apparently some can't coexist in the presence of others and their followers are ordered to destroy the competition. 


I will try to answer your question.  I don't know of any groups atheist try to kill or why they would be motivated as atheist to do so.  Again Atheism is the absence of belief and so it doesn't supply a motivation.  I hope I didn't misunderstand your question.



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Atheist

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StillAnEagle wrote:

Athiest, Your post deserves a thoughtful and reasoned reply.  I am busy today grading papers, tests, and prepping for three lectures today.  I will reply as soon as I have enough time to devote to the response you deserve.

I understand, StillAnEagle.  I too will be in and out during the day.  


Hey, Guardian Eagle.  Jump right in, the water is fine. Everyone has been very respectful.  I'd like to hear what you have to say.



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Coast Resident

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Atheist wrote:

I don't know of any groups atheist try to kill or why they would be motivated as atheist to do so. 

I believe the Gods themselves would be the group that the atheist are trying to kill.



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