Visit - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 5, 2006

RE: Visit

Date: Apr 5, 2006

depends on how many hours in the minor. but i agree with minor league player, you should only teach in the discipline in which you received your terminal degree.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

depends on how many hours in the minor. but i agree with minor league player, you should only teach in the discipline in which you received your terminal degree.

SCM, you mean if I have a terminal degree in Polymer Science I can't teach Economic Development or Chair that dept. or approve degrees in that discipline?

Date: Apr 5, 2006

i think that would be a problem.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

SCM, have you noticed that many administrators think that most anybody can teach a course in the social and behavioral sciences but they don't think that the same rules apply to the physical or biological sciences?

Date: Apr 5, 2006

not really, but i don't keep up on all of the hires.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

depends on how many hours in the minor. but i agree with minor league player, you should only teach in the discipline in which you received your terminal degree.

Then again that depends. There are people whose research work leads them into intense contact in other fields that eventually can become areas of expertise. Never underestimate the power of an intelligent and well-educated individual to use his/her primary discipline as a launching point. Think Jim Hollandsworth . . . . I generally agree with you, but still think that this should be seen as a strong encouraged practice rather than as rule that must never be violated.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

There are people whose research work leads them into intense contact in other fields that eventually can become areas of expertise.

" . . . unless we could demonstrate considerably more knowledge in that field than is obtained through a mere minor."

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stephen--i kind of agree with you. interdisciplinary areas are "hot" now. but my experience with interdisciplinary work is that you need people who are experts in their area who interact well with experts in other areas. i'm not sure taking the equivalent of a minor (or cognate, since this issue has never been defined) makes one more than a well-read person in an area. i have the equivalent of a cognate or minor in psychology but i surely wouldn't think of myself as expert enough to teach psychology courses. i also have been certified in a courtroom as an expert in statistics--good enough to teach it, probably not.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

stephen--i kind of agree with you. interdisciplinary areas are "hot" now. but my experience with interdisciplinary work is that you need people who are experts in their area who interact well with experts in other areas. i'm not sure taking the equivalent of a minor (or cognate, since this issue has never been defined) makes one more than a well-read person in an area. i have the equivalent of a cognate or minor in psychology but i surely wouldn't think of myself as expert enough to teach psychology courses. i also have been certified in a courtroom as an expert in statistics--good enough to teach it, probably not.

I think I'm probably not talking about interdisciplinary activities, but more like those occasional scholars whose work, for whatever reason, might carry them deeply into an adjoining field. And I recognize that this kind of thing might more likely happen in some disciplines than others -- the humanities I expect, where I think the boundries of particular knowlege areas can be pretty fuzzy . . . . rather than, say the sciences or math (although I don't want to rule those out either.) Foucault's work, for instance, spanned a wide range of disciplinary genres --

I'm just reluctant to say . . . . "never." Maybe . . . "usually ever . . .?"

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stephen--again, i agree with you philosophically. however, sacs deals with a range of institutions most of us have never heard of and didn't realize existed. and the rules sometimes exist to deal with problems at such institutions. there are any number of institutions (and i've heard from my doctoral students who teach at such places) where a "give me 24 hours and a textbook and i can teach anything" mentality exists. at usm right now we have to fly straight and narrow. i know that in my discipline at UT-Austin people well out of the discipline can be hired and it doesn't even register as a problem.

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

stephen--again, i agree with you philosophically. however, sacs deals with a range of institutions most of us have never heard of and didn't realize existed. and the rules sometimes exist to deal with problems at such institutions. there are any number of institutions (and i've heard from my doctoral students who teach at such places) where a "give me 24 hours and a textbook and i can teach anything" mentality exists. at usm right now we have to fly straight and narrow. i know that in my discipline at UT-Austin people well out of the discipline can be hired and it doesn't even register as a problem.

First of all - This is the kind of discussion and debate that makes this board valuable. I have really learned a lot based upon Stinky and Stephen's exchange (Stinky and Stephen - sounds like a network show).

My question to you Stinky - You mentioned that in your discipline at UT-Austin they hire "out of discipline" and it is not a problem. Does your discipine have an accrediting body? Is that alright with them? Just wondering...

Count

Date: Apr 5, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

"i know that in my discipline at UT-Austin people well out of the discipline can be hired and it doesn't even register as a problem."

Schools with bigtime athletic programs do sometimes wink at such matters

.

Date: Apr 6, 2006

my discipline doesn't accredit programs.

Date: Apr 6, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

stephen--again, i agree with you philosophically. however, sacs deals with a range of institutions most of us have never heard of and didn't realize existed. and the rules sometimes exist to deal with problems at such institutions. there are any number of institutions (and i've heard from my doctoral students who teach at such places) where a "give me 24 hours and a textbook and i can teach anything" mentality exists. at usm right now we have to fly straight and narrow. i know that in my discipline at UT-Austin people well out of the discipline can be hired and it doesn't even register as a problem.

I think as long as there is a sense that there are distinctions between "conventional professional practices" that allow for exceptions I'm fine. I hear you loud and clear about controlling the abuse -- after all, blurring the distinctions among disciplines and diluting the abilty of a discipline to maintain quality within its own ranks is extremely important. But once again, I think there needs to be an out for those academics whose abilities (greater than my own) alow them in many ways to transcend disciplines as they work. I'm not even sure that Gibbon had a history degree . . . did he? There is a differecne, i think, between a painter (with an MFA in painting) who creates a few sculptures and a painter (MFA in painting) who also creates a body of sculptural work that embodies many styles and techniques. I'd say that painter has become a sculptor. I think likewise someone researching from one discipline can find himself/herself so enmeshed in another discipline that they may read or work extremely deeply in tha discipline, perhaps even taking some coursework in that discipline in order to help them but perhaos not coursework leadeing to a degree. If that leads to the publishing of several books in which the scholarship is recognized in the new discipline, then I'd say that person has probably may have earned the right to teach in that discipline (or at least the subject matter of research) through a different sort of apprenticeship.

Just my further 2 cents. My this is interesting.

Date: Apr 6, 2006

If a faculty member is hired to teach and conduct research in Latin American history, but she later decides to conduct research in the Sociology of Groups, could this present a problem for the department that hired her? At what point can a faculty member's avocational interest, even if scholarly in nature, become her main academic focus? Should teaching and research on 19th Century English Literature be considered toward promotion, tenure, and merit increases by the Department of Physics? Which department conducts the peer reviews? If the teaching and research emphasis of a political scientist changes from Political Science to Theatre, should the departmental affiliation also change? I have a hobby which is scholarly in nature. If I get bored with my discipline of training, can I switch to my scholarly hobby and still retain my appointment in the department of my discipline?

Date: Apr 6, 2006

6 questions wrote:

If a faculty member is hired to teach and conduct research in Latin American history, but she later decides to conduct research in the Sociology of Groups, could this present a problem for the department that hired her? At what point can a faculty member's avocational interest, even if scholarly in nature, become her main academic focus? Should teaching and research on 19th Century English Literature be considered toward promotion, tenure, and merit increases by the Department of Physics? Which department conducts the peer reviews? If the teaching and research emphasis of a political scientist changes from Political Science to Theatre, should the departmental affiliation also change? I have a hobby which is scholarly in nature. If I get bored with my discipline of training, can I switch to my scholarly hobby and still retain my appointment in the department of my discipline?

There is, interestingly enough, a precedent of a faculty member at USM moving from one department to another that fits the above situation. Jim Hollingsworth made the transition from pyschology to history. He accopmlished this by writing a over the years a series of outstanding monographs on the Civil War, race, and reconstruction. He was a valued member of the history department until he was forced-out in 2003 by an incompetent decision made by A. Dvorak.

This raises another issue: there is very little support or encouragement for interdisciplinary work at USM--largely because there are few joint appointments and few research institutes that bring different disciplines together to work on common problems. The above example--Latin American history and the "sociology of groups" (an example could be social network analysis) is actually reflected in current scholarship. Social scientists have turned to historical questions to contextualize their theoretical concerns. This is the basis for the much discussed "historical turn" in social science. Some historians (not enough in my view) draw upon various theoretical and methodological innovations in demography sociology, ethnology, economics and other fields to inform their research.

Immanual Wallerstein has called for scholars to transcend what are artificial distinctions between disciplines (see his "Unthinking Social Science"). You've got to work harder to integrate more that one discipline's methods and theoretical concerns, but the result can be a richer scholarly product that transcends many of the divisions that separate closely allied disciplines.

Date: Apr 6, 2006

qwerty wrote:

6 questions wrote: If a faculty member is hired to teach and conduct research in Latin American history, but she later decides to conduct research in the Sociology of Groups, could this present a problem for the department that hired her? At what point can a faculty member's avocational interest, even if scholarly in nature, become her main academic focus? Should teaching and research on 19th Century English Literature be considered toward promotion, tenure, and merit increases by the Department of Physics? Which department conducts the peer reviews? If the teaching and research emphasis of a political scientist changes from Political Science to Theatre, should the departmental affiliation also change? I have a hobby which is scholarly in nature. If I get bored with my discipline of training, can I switch to my scholarly hobby and still retain my appointment in the department of my discipline? There is, interestingly enough, a precedent of a faculty member at USM moving from one department to another that fits the above situation. Jim Hollingsworth made the transition from pyschology to history. He accopmlished this by writing a over the years a series of outstanding monographs on the Civil War, race, and reconstruction. He was a valued member of the history department until he was forced-out in 2003 by an incompetent decision made by A. Dvorak. This raises another issue: there is very little support or encouragement for interdisciplinary work at USM--largely because there are few joint appointments and few research institutes that bring different disciplines together to work on common problems. The above example--Latin American history and the "sociology of groups" (an example could be social network analysis) is actually reflected in current scholarship. Social scientists have turned to historical questions to contextualize their theoretical concerns. This is the basis for the much discussed "historical turn" in social science. Some historians (not enough in my view) draw upon various theoretical and methodological innovations in demography sociology, ethnology, economics and other fields to inform their research. Immanual Wallerstein has called for scholars to transcend what are artificial distinctions between disciplines (see his "Unthinking Social Science"). You've got to work harder to integrate more that one discipline's methods and theoretical concerns, but the result can be a richer scholarly product that transcends many of the divisions that separate closely allied disciplines.

Thank you qwerty.

I was indeed thinking of academics whose research pursuit led them into other disciplines as more than a just decided" or "happened to" kind of scenerio. M experience with some scholars is that their related research isn't avocational at all -- it is every bit as in depth as research that is more clearly recognizable as from their own discipline.

At the same time, I do recognize and acknoweldge SCM's concern about this becoming too casual a practice and also one that, as we have seen in our own university, can be used by the administration to put people in areas in which they do not belong.