Time clock Poll - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Time clock Poll

Date: Mar 24, 2006

CoB does not need time clocks as the anti-doty crowd FM, SS, EK serve Doty as hall monitors reporting on everyones activities. Save the money for the air conditioning system.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

University faculty are like professional employees any where else. They should be periodically reviewed and assessed as to the outcomes of their efforts, classes taught, research conducted, papers published, etc. Knowing that professor X clocked in for 40 hrs or 20 hrs or 50 hrs during the week tells you little to nothing about the quality of professor X’s work or its outcomes. If as part of their job, the university makes it a requirement that they are available in their office to their students so many hours each week, then some type of timecard might be appropriate to measure that this deliverable is being met. Otherwise it is a wasted effort.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

nonmonitor wrote:

CoB does not need time clocks as the anti-doty crowd FM, SS, EK serve Doty as hall monitors reporting on everyones activities. Save the money for the air conditioning system.

FM, SS, and EK serve Doty? I think that would be news to Doty (or any other CoB faculty member for that matter).

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Bingo Coast Resident! Results or Outcome based performance appraisal. Not time clocks as apparently so many in the community work under...If all you know is pay by the hour, I guess it's difficult to comprehend other systems.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Outside Observer wrote:

Bingo Coast Resident! Results or Outcome based performance appraisal. Not time clocks as apparently so many in the community work under...If all you know is pay by the hour, I guess it's difficult to comprehend other systems.

I'll second that motion. The idea of a professional punching a time clock is absurd. I've got my course outlines perfected to the point where there's virtually no lecture prep required. My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

I believe we should rethink this time clock issue. First, it is one of the few things you can punch that does not punch back. Second, it is about the only thing us old dudes can punch.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Mr. Efficiency wrote:

My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better.

I don't think this is anything you should be bragging about, particularly in a public forum.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Mr. Efficiency wrote:

...I've got my course outlines perfected to the point where there's virtually no lecture prep required. My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better.

If this is true, Mr. Efficiency, then your department chair person is not doing a very good job. However, I doubt Mr. Efficiency is even a prof and may be a troll. After all, JGH is where CoB is located and we all know what kind of threads and post they produce.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better.

You have not completed your obligation to your department or USM. USM pays higher salaries than pure teaching universities because it is expected that you will be research active. If you behave as you stated, I expect that you have noting but pecker tracks on that part of your resume that lists research publications. If you are not excited about doing research, then you made a bad choice coming to a research focused university. If you are not doing research, you should be taking on other work to free up junior faculty such as committee work or sponsorship of student organizations, and you should be on a four four course load. I do not think you will find many on this Board that will agree with your position or support your behavior.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Mrs Efficiency wrote:

Mr. Efficiency wrote: ...I've got my course outlines perfected to the point where there's virtually no lecture prep required. My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better.

If this is true, Mr. Efficiency, then your department chair person is not doing a very good job. However, I doubt Mr. Efficiency is even a prof and may be a troll. After all, JGH is where CoB is located and we all know what kind of threads and post they produce.

I think I get your drift but am not certain. You're suggesting that Mr. Efficiency is a troll and possibly not a professor. You also speak disparagingly of posts emanating from the CoB. Are you also suggesting that if he is a prof, Mr. E could be a CoB prof who is also a troll? I hadn't considered that possibility. I should add that I'm not in the CoB, but there are at least two "older" tenured faculty members in my department who don't even put in an honest 20 hours a week, and make no secret of it. They're embittered about Thames and his sleight of hand with raises and MIDAS awards, and have decided to protest by engaging in the barest minimum university activities until retirement. In some ways I can hardly blame them.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Clarification Please wrote:

Mrs Efficiency wrote: Mr. Efficiency wrote: ...I've got my course outlines perfected to the point where there's virtually no lecture prep required. My teaching time and office hours combined total less than 20 hours a week, which is about the amount of time I spend on campus. And I'm not even the most efficient prof in my department. So what if I'm not hanging out in JGH hall all the time? If we can get all our work done in 20 hours a week or less, so much the better. If this is true, Mr. Efficiency, then your department chair person is not doing a very good job. However, I doubt Mr. Efficiency is even a prof and may be a troll. After all, JGH is where CoB is located and we all know what kind of threads and post they produce.

I think I get your drift but am not certain. You're suggesting that Mr. Efficiency is a troll and possibly not a professor. You also speak disparagingly of posts emanating from the CoB. Are you also suggesting that if he is a prof, Mr. E could be a CoB prof who is also a troll? I hadn't considered that possibility. I should add that I'm not in the CoB, but there are at least two "older" tenured faculty members in my department who don't even put in an honest 20 hours a week, and make no secret of it. They're embittered about Thames and his sleight of hand with raises and MIDAS awards, and have decided to protest by engaging in the barest minimum university activities until retirement. In some ways I can hardly blame them.

It's sometimes hard to believe the post from CoB are from faculty. Maybe we have CoB student trolls.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Mrs Efficiency wrote:

It's sometimes hard to believe the post from CoB are from faculty. Maybe we have CoB student trolls.

Yes, you're probably on to something. If they are CoB student trolls, they're a cut above the others we've had. We have to give them credit for that, at least.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

We've seen many polls conducted on this board, but never the results. And if the results were posted, what checks and balances are in place to ensure accuracy of reporting?

Date: Mar 24, 2006

$2.00 Poll Tax wrote:

We've seen many polls conducted on this board, but never the results. And if the results were posted, what checks and balances are in place to ensure accuracy of reporting?

Do you support use of time clocks for USM faculty? [36 vote(s)]

yes

38.9%

no

61.1%

Date: Mar 24, 2006

dime wrote:

Do you support use of time clocks for USM faculty? [36 vote(s)] yes 38.9% no 61.1%

It's hard to believe that 38.9% of the voters are trolls, are ignorant, or both; but that's what the poll results show

Date: Mar 24, 2006

This is a dumb poll. Salaried employees don't generally punch a clock, because time records are really needed only to pay hourly employees.

BTW, "time clock" is a phrase that's always bugged me. It's redundant. Somebody show me a clock not designed to be a "time clock." (Last time I checked, the "rev clock" & "speed clock" on my dashboard were the tach & the speedometer, respectively.)

Date: Mar 25, 2006

Perhaps COB & CoST could collaborate to make this applicable to employees

Corporate America would love you.

Date: Mar 25, 2006

$2.00 Poll Tax wrote:

We've seen many polls conducted on this board, but never the results. And if the results were posted, what checks and balances are in place to ensure accuracy of reporting?

If you want the results, just go back and find the appropriate thread. The poll should be there with its final (or at least most recent) result.

Date: Mar 25, 2006

Invictus wrote

This is a dumb poll. Salaried employees don't generally punch a clock, because time records are really needed only to pay hourly employees.

Is there not a legal issue also? I recall reading about legal squabbles concerning employees being hired on salary and then being forced to punch time clocks. I think it had to do with wage and salary laws that required overtime pay if you worked over 4o hours a week while punching a time clock. Can anyone shed any light on this, or is this another case of my memory becoming swiss cheese?

Date: Mar 25, 2006

Cossack - I believe several major retailors have been forced to deal with this issue when the retailors failed to pay its salaried employees (frequently the managers) for the mandatory overtime (over 40 hours each week). Perhaps there is a parallel for faculty: since many faculty work over 40 hours in a week at times during the year - despite public statements or beliefs by some people - there would be increased pay for those weeks. Imagine the documentation nightmare. I feel sure the Dome would not want to count work at home, but I have never known a faculty member that did not work some at home. Now if the desired administration goal is inputs (hours at school each week) and not outputs, then I think there will be an enormous increase in the number of faculty members with TVs and DVD players in their offices, refrigerators, and any other recreational device that makes the faculty member more comfortable as s/he sits in his/her office and watches movies, play games, listen to music as s/he reads for pleasure as s/he strives for 50, 60, 70+ hours each week. The more you stay, the more they have to pay, and no production is required. Like those paid simply to be "at work" in a store, a faculty member can now enjoy the same privileges that s/he did not need to work hard in school to earn. Perhaps the best benefit is now all faculty members CAN tell students about to graduate what their work life will be like; the faculty live it. No more need for faculty work experience. And some of you worried it would be horrible not being much of a university anymore.

Date: Mar 25, 2006

Time after time wrote:

Cossack - I believe several major retailors have been forced to deal with this issue when the retailors failed to pay its salaried employees (frequently the managers) for the mandatory overtime (over 40 hours each week). Perhaps there is a parallel for faculty: since many faculty work over 40 hours in a week at times during the year - despite public statements or beliefs by some people - there would be increased pay for those weeks. Imagine the documentation nightmare. I feel sure the Dome would not want to count work at home, but I have never known a faculty member that did not work some at home. Now if the desired administration goal is inputs (hours at school each week) and not outputs, then I think there will be an enormous increase in the number of faculty members with TVs and DVD players in their offices, refrigerators, and any other recreational device that makes the faculty member more comfortable as s/he sits in his/her office and watches movies, play games, listen to music as s/he reads for pleasure as s/he strives for 50, 60, 70+ hours each week. The more you stay, the more they have to pay, and no production is required. Like those paid simply to be "at work" in a store, a faculty member can now enjoy the same privileges that s/he did not need to work hard in school to earn. Perhaps the best benefit is now all faculty members CAN tell students about to graduate what their work life will be like; the faculty live it. No more need for faculty work experience. And some of you worried it would be horrible not being much of a university anymore.

If the bean counters insist that faculty members check in and check out via time clocks, the practice should be retroactive. Many faculty members spend far more than 40 hours per week in their office. Please forward the overtime check to my address of record. It will be a substantial one. USM couldn't afford the cost if it had to backpay its faculty for hours worked over 40 per week. It would go belly up for sure.

Date: Mar 26, 2006

The idea of polling such a question is silly, since a time clock for professional and creative employees would be in direct violation of the federal Fair Labor Standards Act enacted in 1938. See here, for instance.

Enough, already.

Date: Mar 26, 2006

What is truly silly is that this university has been driven down to the point that issues such as this are all too possible - legal or not. Worst of all is how many formerly productive faculty members are less productive because of trying to deal with the seemingly continuous assault of issues like time clocks, drug tests, monitoring, and reorganizations. That loss, and the reputational loss of the school, can never be regained.

Date: Mar 26, 2006

Reality Check wrote:

The idea of polling such a question is silly, since a time clock for professional and creative employees would be in direct violation of the federal Fair Labor Standards Act enacted in 1938."

"The Professional exemption is for work that requires an advanced degree and that is original or creative in nature. Independent judgement and discretion must be excercized in these positions more than 50% of the time."

If academic freedom diappears at USM and "Independent judgment and discretion" drops below 50% of the time, would that mean that the faculty are no longer "professionals"?

Date: Mar 26, 2006

Time after time wrote:

What is truly silly is that this university has been driven down to the point that issues such as this are all too possible - legal or not.

I do believe that the current El Presidenté explored the use of "time clocks" (ugh) as well as time logs about 25 years ago...

Date: Mar 26, 2006

Invictus wrote:

I do believe that the current El Presidenté explored the use of "time clocks" (ugh) as well as time logs about 25 years ago...

Time logs back then, time warps right now.