CoB HVAC Situation Worsens - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 23, 2006

CoB HVAC Situation Worsens

Date: Mar 23, 2006

RE: CoB HVAC Situation Worstens

Date: Mar 23, 2006

None are omitted unless they were sent only to administrators and then were not forwarded, which is highly unlikely.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

I understand the first gap in informing faculty (April to October), but work began in January. Why were there no updates until recently?

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Doty got hammered on this board for lack of communication. Subsequently, Doty has improved, but he had nowhere to go but up. In mid to late January, work on the HVAC system had not begun. There was no explanation for the delay in starting the project.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Could this be an example of why it is not good to outsource Physical Plant? USM outsources PP and then expects to have jobs finished on schedule by soon-to-be-outsourced workers. That's about right.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

When the HVAC was replaced in Walker Science Building the situation was much the same as described here. The State Building Commission owns the buildings and contract the repair work. Neither physical plant nor the Dean had control over when, what or where things would be done. The university had the choice to either empty the building or stay and work around the construction. It was a nightmare.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

The whole CoB HVAC story shows the failings of Doty and a relatively poor University. The first e-mail (4.2005) indicates that Doty wanted to talk with groups of faculty about how to handle the situation. The next email, in 10.2005, presents the solution via an "All CoB" email. It indicates that representatives from all CoB departments --- of which there are about 3 --- were at some meeting. In the 4.2005 to 10.2005 interim, there are no emails to indicate how the discussion was going and what ideas were being bounced around.

At the CoB faculty meeting in May several suggestions were made by faculty, many of which were better than what was decided upon by this group of various citizens. Doty was told not to believe dates and timelines given to him by contractors and physical plant people. As you can see from the 10.17.2005 email, HD completely bought into the idea that the contractors were selling, that there were hard and fast dates for completion of various stages of the project.

When did things start to go wrong? Notice that the first stage was to begin on 12.24.2005. It actually began in earnest around 1.15.2006 or so. The timelines were dead before the clock started ticking. One or two classes of business students will have their college experience impacted badly by the HVAC situation. That was inevitable, but some of the costs could have been mitigated. Now Emile Dieth has his work cut out. Good luck getting contributions to the cause from this group.

Now it is 3.23.2006, and we are at a point where about 25%-30% of the second floor was to be complete, yet only about 70% of the first floor is done. It's 3.23.2006 and the most recent update from Doty arrives. In the second and largest paragraph of today's e-mail (below),

"At this time it looks like the entire third floor of the building will be under renovation over the summer, from about May 15 into August. This will be a major inconvenience for faculty over the summer, but we have been assured that the south end of the third floor, and thus most faculty offices, will be completed by August 15, and the north end of the third floor by August 31."

he is still relying on assurances and guarantees made to him and his committee. Everyone else is still waiting for Doty to learn everything they didn't teach him in Austin about being a Dean.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

the real Napster wrote:

The whole CoB HVAC story shows the failings of Doty and a relatively poor University. The first e-mail (4.2005) indicates that Doty wanted to talk with groups of faculty about how to handle the situation. The next email, in 10.2005, presents the solution via an "All CoB" email. It indicates that representatives from all CoB departments --- of which there are about 3 --- were at some meeting. In the 4.2005 to 10.2005 interim, there are no emails to indicate how the discussion was going and what ideas were being bounced around. At the CoB faculty meeting in May several suggestions were made by faculty, many of which were better than what was decided upon by this group of various citizens. Doty was told not to believe dates and timelines given to him by contractors and physical plant people. As you can see from the 10.17.2005 email, HD completely bought into the idea that the contractors were selling, that there were hard and fast dates for completion of various stages of the project. When did things start to go wrong? Notice that the first stage was to begin on 12.24.2005. It actually began in earnest around 1.15.2006 or so. The timelines were dead before the clock started ticking. One or two classes of business students will have their college experience impacted badly by the HVAC situation. That was inevitable, but some of the costs could have been mitigated. Now Emile Dieth has his work cut out. Good luck getting contributions to the cause from this group. Now it is 3.23.2006, and we are at a point where about 25%-30% of the second floor was to be complete, yet only about 70% of the first floor is done. It's 3.23.2006 and the most recent update from Doty arrives. In the second and largest paragraph of today's e-mail (below), "At this time it looks like the entire third floor of the building will be under renovation over the summer, from about May 15 into August. This will be a major inconvenience for faculty over the summer, but we have been assured that the south end of the third floor, and thus most faculty offices, will be completed by August 15, and the north end of the third floor by August 31." he is still relying on assurances and guarantees made to him and his committee. Everyone else is still waiting for Doty to learn everything they didn't teach him in Austin about being a Dean.

Another B.S. post based on lack of knowledge = knowledge.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Feed Up, while many have a problem with some CoB threads, you look more and more like a troll. I especially like your comment on the cobprideboard thread from earlier. Thanks.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

i wondered how long it would take somebody to post on this again. this could be one of the greatest examples of the management guru that is harold doty.

examine email 1. email 1 is a very positive email. the hvac in jgh is a problem, so we're going to fix it. few details are available now, but more will follow.

[editorial comment/rumor/hearsay: in late april/early may 2005 (post-email 1), the CoB faculty were presented some sketchy information on this project. objections were raised to the idea of "sectioning off" the building and trying to teach while construction was ongoing. several alternatives were suggested, including teaching all CoB courses in other classroom buildings, even if it meant bad teaching times for CoB faculty. also mentioned was the possibility of teaching all courses in the 8w1 format. the entire conversation took less than 30 minutes, as i recall. sorry, no affadivits available for those faculty meeting conversations.]

now examine email 2. notice the date. email 2 arrived 162 days (over 5 months) after email 1. email 2 heralds the news that a meeting has been held and that decisions were made. we go from a sketchy suggestion to "it's a done deal." representatives from all departments were present at the meeting, yet those representatives were not elected by faculty based on their judgment or communication skills or on their experience with construction and academia. some people got together with doty, physical plant, and the contractors and made some decisions. work will start, however, over christmas break. doty promises to keep us informed. in fairness, recovering from hurricane katrina was the focus of last fall semester, so i'll cut him some slack on the timing. i must ask, however, why start this project with students and faculty exhausted after katrina? yet, the beat goes on.

move on to email 3. three days after email 2, doty has the plan in place. did i miss a faculty meeting to discuss all this? no! did my departmental rep (identity still unknown to me) talk to me about this plan? no! the schedule has been made, and we're about to enter uncharted waters...or are we? did we check with other schools to see how they handled their renovations? i never got the chance to ask that question.

email 4. doty admits that the musical classrooms and teaching all 8-week courses will be painful for all involved. except for doty, who does not teach -- no inconvenience for his classes because they do not exist. the physical plant and contractor schedule is attached showing promised dates. phase 1 "must be" complete by friday, march 10, 2006. [editorial note: as one may observe from looking into the doors of jgh, the first phase remains unfinished as of today, march 23, 2006. rumor has it that the first phase will take two more weeks, for a total of one month (4 weeks) behind schedule. again, rumors only.]

[editorial comment/rumor/hearsay: email 4 is dated october 17, 2005. the fall semester ended on or about december 23, 2005. to the best of my recollection, no work had begun on january 1, 2006, and only very simple preparatory work had begun by january 15, 2006.]

email 5. notice the date. 147 days (another 5 months) have passed since email 4 arrived in my inbox. i feel very informed. there appears to be some sort of something going on in jgh, though it doesn't look like progress is being made. i am halfway through the first 8-week term and my students voice their displeasure with the 8-week schedule daily. it's starting to get warm outside and even warmer in jgh with little or no ventilation. every window in the building is open and my students fan themselves incessantly. cool air is coming, though...maybe. "We are in the process of locating more fans, but it could be a trying month." that says quite a bit, doesn't it? [editorial comment: don't forget that faculty were shut out of this process when they voiced concerns over the rose-colored glasses report last spring. who could have seen this clusterf*** coming? nobody important, i guess.]

email 6. 2 days after email 5. power will be cut. "...be prepared to begin class without power...." 8am and no lights? sweet!

email 7. 8 days after email 6 and 329 days after email 1. nearing the first anniversary of this misguided project. nearly two weeks into the second 8-week term. students are tired, angry about the schedule, and ready for summer. so am i. doty's email states that we've scrapped the original plan. we're switching phases around. have we discussed any of this in a faculty meeting? no! where's my (still unknown to me) departmental rep? classroom space on the second floor of jgh (originally scheduled for completion no later than friday, may 26, 2006) will now be undertaken in the fall. jgh 115 and 116 (the cob's large lecture halls) will be out of commission until december. will we do the 8-week thing again next fall? will we seek classroom space elsewhere as to avoid repeating this disaster semester? do we have a realistic plan?

folks, aside from 1 faculty meeting, these emails make up the sum total of doty's communication regarding this project, which consumes the cob at present. this example illustrates his management style: manic (3 rapid emails on two occasions) followed by absent (2 stretches of 5 months with no communication). decisions made without proper faculty input. no faculty involvement in reforming or reshaping the plan. this is exemplary of cob management. don't listen to alternative views, get into the middle of something you can't handle, and then scramble to try to survive.

we're surviving, but barely. my office will now have to be evacuated all summer and emptied to avoid damaging books and papers. i lost last fall to katrina. i lost this spring to hvac. evacuate my office for the summer -- find another place to work. next fall will be another disaster, teaching...where? that's assuming they're ready to work on the second floor this fall. who knows? they may still be working on the first floor.

here's a bad cob story with proof.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

CoST wrote:

When the HVAC was replaced in Walker Science Building the situation was much the same as described here. The State Building Commission owns the buildings and contract the repair work. Neither physical plant nor the Dean had control over when, what or where things would be done. The university had the choice to either empty the building or stay and work around the construction. It was a nightmare.

sorry for reiterating some of what you posted, napster. i was working on mine while you posted yours. i didn't see it until after i posted.

here's a good point. there was a model to follow. i wonder who in cost was consulted? i wonder how cost would do it if they had to do it over again. did the cob talk about this? no!

Date: Mar 23, 2006

iOmega wrote:

CoST wrote: When the HVAC was replaced in Walker Science Building the situation was much the same as described here. The State Building Commission owns the buildings and contract the repair work. Neither physical plant nor the Dean had control over when, what or where things would be done. The university had the choice to either empty the building or stay and work around the construction. It was a nightmare.

sorry for reiterating some of what you posted, napster. i was working on mine while you posted yours. i didn't see it until after i posted. here's a good point. there was a model to follow. i wonder who in cost was consulted? i wonder how cost would do it if they had to do it over again. did the cob talk about this? no!

If I remember correctly, CoST wasn't "consulted", but rather "informed" by the contractors what they expected to do and when. Of course they didn't meet the estimated deadlines. Some faculty had their labs shut down and research stopped until the contractors finished. The State Building Commission in Jackson pulled all of the strings and physical plant was at their mercy. Dean Doblin was dean of CoST at the time and had no influence over the repair operation. So from my experience I would think Doty knew very little in the beginning and consulted those impacted as he learned when and where things will be done.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

the real Napster wrote:

The whole CoB HVAC story shows the failings of Doty and a relatively poor University. The first e-mail (4.2005) indicates that Doty wanted to talk with groups of faculty about how to handle the situation. The next email, in 10.2005, presents the solution via an "All CoB" email. It indicates that representatives from all CoB departments --- of which there are about 3 --- were at some meeting. In the 4.2005 to 10.2005 interim, there are no emails to indicate how the discussion was going and what ideas were being bounced around. At the CoB faculty meeting in May several suggestions were made by faculty, many of which were better than what was decided upon by this group of various citizens. Doty was told not to believe dates and timelines given to him by contractors and physical plant people. As you can see from the 10.17.2005 email, HD completely bought into the idea that the contractors were selling, that there were hard and fast dates for completion of various stages of the project. When did things start to go wrong? Notice that the first stage was to begin on 12.24.2005. It actually began in earnest around 1.15.2006 or so. The timelines were dead before the clock started ticking. One or two classes of business students will have their college experience impacted badly by the HVAC situation. That was inevitable, but some of the costs could have been mitigated. Now Emile Dieth has his work cut out. Good luck getting contributions to the cause from this group. Now it is 3.23.2006, and we are at a point where about 25%-30% of the second floor was to be complete, yet only about 70% of the first floor is done. It's 3.23.2006 and the most recent update from Doty arrives. In the second and largest paragraph of today's e-mail (below), "At this time it looks like the entire third floor of the building will be under renovation over the summer, from about May 15 into August. This will be a major inconvenience for faculty over the summer, but we have been assured that the south end of the third floor, and thus most faculty offices, will be completed by August 15, and the north end of the third floor by August 31." he is still relying on assurances and guarantees made to him and his committee. Everyone else is still waiting for Doty to learn everything they didn't teach him in Austin about being a Dean.

Wasn't there a storm named Katrina somewhere during this time? Could that have caused some delays?

Date: Mar 23, 2006

CoST wrote:

If I remember correctly, CoST wasn't "consulted", but rather "informed" by the contractors what they expected to do and when. Of course they didn't meet the estimated deadlines. Some faculty had their labs shut down and research stopped until the contractors finished. The State Building Commission in Jackson pulled all of the strings and physical plant was at their mercy. Dean Doblin was dean of CoST at the time and had no influence over the repair operation. So from my experience I would think Doty knew very little in the beginning and consulted those impacted as he learned when and where things will be done.

what doty knew and when is pretty much a mystery except for the little information conveyed in those emails.

let's assume doty was "informed" rather than "consulted." he was "informed" in october 2005 about the contractor's proposed schedule. did he, at that time, consult the cost to determine what to expect (delays, displacement, snags, snafus)? if so, then he did not communicate that to cob faculty. as napster points out, doty seems to still be operating under the illusion that these "deadlines" are reliable. i'm not saying doty can control the construction process. i'm simply saying that he should have more appropriately anticipated the problems that have arisen and will arise in the future. honest, open discussion that is inclusive of all viewpoints would have facilitated this. believe it or not, there are a few intelligent people who work in the cob. some of them even have insights into the construction business. as usual, however, decisions were made unilaterally or with only the complicity of the yes men.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Historian wrote:

Wasn't there a storm named Katrina somewhere during this time? Could that have caused some delays?

i mentioned this in my post. katrina caused the fall semester to be lengthened until approximately december 23, 2005. that meant that construction could have been started on or about december 26 rather than on december 24. that's technically two days lost due to katrina (actually zero days...who expected them to work on christmas eve or christmas day?). why, then did real construction not start until on or about january 15, 2006? if the construction crews had planned to work over the christmas break (as indicated in email 4), what caused them to not start until the middle of january? notice also that the contractor's schedule was formulated, sent to doty, and distributed to the cob after katrina.

i like this discussion we're having. it's what i thought would happen inside the cob when this project came up.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

After searching my email for the right message, I finally found the email containing the minutes of the one and only CoB faculty meeting concerning the HVAC replacement. They are posted in their entirety below. Yes, I am sure they are complete as distributed. These minutes do not reflect the points raised by CoB faculty concerning classroom assignments, scheduling, construction timetables, input into the process, etc. I'm pretty sure that means that the dean didn't give them much weight -- they weren't even worth writing down!

*************************************************************

Faculty Meeting Minutes
Friday, May 6, 2005
2:30 p.m., Room 303, Joseph Greene Hall

Harold Doty told a meeting of Hattiesburg faculty about plans in the works to replace the HVAC system throughout Joseph Greene Hall. Although details are still sketchy, the plan is to close major sections of the building for 4-6 weeks at a time, shifting classes and relocating faculty for the duration of the work in that area.

Work will not likely begin until the holiday break in December 2005. More information to come at a later date.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

I forgot to mention that these minutes were distributed on August 25, 2005, four days before Hurricane Katrina hit.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

RE: CoB HVAC Situation Worsens

Date: Mar 23, 2006

The CoB has become SMJC. Doty is chair of refrigeration/ac dept.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

actually, the renovation did start in december. They first had to remove all of the ceiling grid before they could start removing the old system.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

hot and tired wrote:

actually, the renovation did start in december. They first had to remove all of the ceiling grid before they could start removing the old system.

So, you're saying that the work that was done in December was to remove ceiling tiles from the first floor?

That's hardly a drop in the bucket compared to removing the old system and putting in the new system.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

What about knocking out the wall because the boiler was too big for the building to house? What part of the timeline was set aside for that before the project began?

Date: Mar 23, 2006

let me state for the record that i do not hold the workmen responsible for the delays. they worked when they were told to and then when they were allowed to work. they've been unfettered lately and they've made real progress.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

hot house wrote:

What about knocking out the wall because the boiler was too big for the building to house? What part of the timeline was set aside for that before the project began?

I had forgotten about this. I asked Doty about this when it happened. He just looked pissed off and walked away mumbling something about the metric system.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

iOmega wrote:

let me state for the record that i do not hold the workmen responsible for the delays. they worked when they were told to and then when they were allowed to work. they've been unfettered lately and they've made real progress.

That was my point above, as well. They've been significantly hampered in this deal.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

iOmega wrote:

what doty knew and when is pretty much a mystery except for the little information conveyed in those emails. let's assume doty was "informed" rather than "consulted." he was "informed" in october 2005 about the contractor's proposed schedule. did he, at that time, consult the cost to determine what to expect (delays, displacement, snags, snafus)?...

Since the CoST repairs was done under Dean Doblin, I doubt that Doty even knew that even occurred. That is another example of lost of institutional memory.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

CoST wrote:

Since the CoST repairs was done under Dean Doblin, I doubt that Doty even knew that even occurred. That is another example of lost of institutional memory.

there's a simple solution for the problem you describe. here it is.

doty: umm, rusty [postlewaite], has any project like the cob hvac replacement ever been done at usm? turner [brown], do you know? if you don't know, do either of you know someone i could call who would know?

of course that would have been out of character. doty's not in the habit of asking questions before making decisions. he's a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

iOmega wrote:

CoST wrote: Since the CoST repairs was done under Dean Doblin, I doubt that Doty even knew that even occurred. That is another example of lost of institutional memory. there's a simple solution for the problem you describe. here it is. doty: umm, rusty [postlewaite], has any project like the cob hvac replacement ever been done at usm? turner [brown], do you know? if you don't know, do either of you know someone i could call who would know? of course that would have been out of character. doty's not in the habit of asking questions before making decisions. he's a "shoot first, ask questions later" kind of guy.

Oh Sh*t! I just realized this is a CoB thread where people speculate anout anything and everything to keep it going. I know a solution, Let's stipulate: "No matter what Doty did or does he is a bad guy." Now we can finish this thread and start another one.

BYE

Date: Mar 24, 2006

I dont believe rusty was here either when CoST repairs were done. As for Turner, good luck getting any info from him