It was a pretty good day - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 22, 2006

It was a pretty good day

Date: Mar 22, 2006

This was not at all what I had expected. I don't know how to take this.

Date: Mar 22, 2006

How to take this? How about with a big, big, big grain of salt? Heck, how about with a mountain of salt?

Kiln eagle, it would be the easiest thing in the world for your faculty contact to speak to Amy Young, Jameela Lares, or Stephen Judd. Any of them would guarantee his confidentiality and could then vouch for the authenticity of your post. Until then, sorry.

Date: Mar 22, 2006

Or how about Myron Henry, Ray Folse, or Dave Beckett? Or Denise von Hermann, all of whom have posted here before. Surely he can find somebody he trusts.

Date: Mar 22, 2006

As a 20 year faculty member, I think this is progress. There's a reason companies have/had "take your kid to work day." It's so that kids will know what their parents do/did and could tell others. When people understand what you do, they don't tend to have issues like the majority of Hattiesburg has. I know for a fact that a lot of the medical community thinks we're shiftless. This move by kiln eagle has real potential. We could have a series of days when townspeople could shadow a USM faculty member for a day. They would see what we do and how we do it. They could deal with our classes and students and could see us on committees.

Organizations usually struggle to find ways to change the public perception of its culture. Here's one that's been presented to us. Let's take the opportunity to show the community that we perform a valuable niche in society.

Date: Mar 22, 2006

I too think it's a terrific idea. I know several faculty members who would probably welcome the opportunity. I just happen to think this particular instance is bogus, and I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Date: Mar 22, 2006

must have been one of them polymer types, thinks place is great, gets government dole from Thad Cochran and doesn't have to teach a class.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Kiln Eagle (or written lower case, if you prefer),

It doesn't really sounds as though you shadowed a professor for a day but rather spent a few hours having a tour of the same PR we've been hearing for years. I would certainly permit you to shadow me for a day, but I warn you that it would be a long one, and it would have to begin here at my house at about 6 a.m. when I've finished on the board and gotten to my language study, or paper grading, or whatever it is that I do with my second cup of coffee, and it would stretch out all day through teaching and conferencing and committee meetings and web searches for bibliography and more paper grading, and it would continue at home and wouldn't end until 10 or 11 at night when I grew too sleepy to read whatever it is I've got in the works. I do knock off a few hours in the evening to read the funnies, etc., and check personal e-mail, so I could switch that time to day's end and let you get away no later than 9. I'll also be happy to show you my c.v., which also shows lots of activity. I'm certainly not going to be getting government grants for any of the 7 or 8 literary and linguistic projects I'm working on, though I did get a Lucas grant just recently for one of them. Gotta go,

JL

Date: Mar 23, 2006

I agree with Jameela. Kiln eagle didn't "shadow" a faculty member at work, but rather was "entertained" by the faculty member for half a day. It appears they had breakfast and then went and toured a research lab until lunch. Unless the faculty member is a tour guide, this prof was not working. This is what some depts. do for a prospective student. I'm glad kiln eagle was impressed, but the question was how much work a prof does in a day. All we learned was kiln eagle is easily distracted.

P.S. to LVN : Ray Folse has retired, but Myron Henry or Dave Beckett are good suggestions for profs to shadow for a day.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

LeftASAP wrote:

I agree with Jameela. Kiln eagle didn't "shadow" a faculty member at work, but rather was "entertained" by the faculty member for half a day. It appears they had breakfast and then went and toured a research lab until lunch. Unless the faculty member is a tour guide, this prof was not working. This is what some depts. do for a prospective student. I'm glad kiln eagle was impressed, but the question was how much work a prof does in a day. All we learned was kiln eagle is easily distracted. P.S. to LVN : Ray Folse has retired, but Myron Henry or Dave Beckett are good suggestions for profs to shadow for a day.

You people are unbelievable. Never seen anything like it.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

local merchant wrote:

You people are unbelievable. Never seen anything like it.

I'm not a contributor to this particular thread but I am curious about your comment. Could you please be a bit more specific? One of my neighbors is a local medical professional who works 70-80 hours a week (info provided by his wife to mine). He and she have both made a number of good natured but barbed remarks about my "soft" schedule and the amount of time I spend at home. I'm probably guilty as charged, as I now find the campus and its internecine warfare to be a most unpleasant environment. As I read my own words, it strikes me that I'm more disaffected than I realized and not working nearly as hard I did during the pre-Shelby era. Maybe it's time to consider moving on, either back to private industry or another university? I'm not sure I can wash this bad taste from my mouth.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Southern Fried,

You have described a condition that occurs when the organization you work for has a discrete shift in focus. A common characteristic of all employees who are productive in their career is that they work better in an environment that is not hostile. Quite often businesses or universities acquire a manager that is a mismatch for the organization. Often these managers are dysfunctional human beings in many dimensions. The outcome is always the same. The employees that are the most mobile leave. This merely adds to the dysfunctional environment. Unless you are a unique individual, you cannot help but be affected.

The solution is to work harder, publish more, and then leave. The posters on this Board who are critical of faculty at USM believe that faculty are interchangeable parts. One English prof is as good as another, so who cares. Contributing to the mix is the commonly held belief by many that faculty are lazy and unproductive. It goes with the territory just as many think that most lawyers are sleazy and dishonest, or that car dealers are slick and dishonest. In general, none of the above is true, but perception is perception. The one thing that I have trouble figuring out is the hatred of USM faculty particularly. Once a faculty member is hired, they immediately are bad people according to many in the community. If we were able to move Ole Miss faculty from Oxford to Hattiesburg, soon after they went through Jackson they would all become pieces of crap.

Sadly, I think that happiness for a UMS faculty is Hattiesburg in their rear view mirror.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Southern Fried, You have described a condition that occurs when the organization you work for has a discrete shift in focus. A common characteristic of all employees who are productive in their career is that they work better in an environment that is not hostile. Quite often businesses or universities acquire a manager that is a mismatch for the organization. Often these managers are dysfunctional human beings in many dimensions. The outcome is always the same. The employees that are the most mobile leave. This merely adds to the dysfunctional environment. Unless you are a unique individual, you cannot help but be affected. The solution is to work harder, publish more, and then leave. The posters on this Board who are critical of faculty at USM believe that faculty are interchangeable parts. One English prof is as good as another, so who cares. Contributing to the mix is the commonly held belief by many that faculty are lazy and unproductive. It goes with the territory just as many think that most lawyers are sleazy and dishonest, or that car dealers are slick and dishonest. In general, none of the above is true, but perception is perception. The one thing that I have trouble figuring out is the hatred of USM faculty particularly. Once a faculty member is hired, they immediately are bad people according to many in the community. If we were able to move Ole Miss faculty from Oxford to Hattiesburg, soon after they went through Jackson they would all become pieces of crap. Sadly, I think that happiness for a UMS faculty is Hattiesburg in their rear view mirror.

Amen, Brother!

Date: Mar 23, 2006

local merchant wrote:

LeftASAP wrote: I agree with Jameela. Kiln eagle didn't "shadow" a faculty member at work, but rather was "entertained" by the faculty member for half a day. It appears they had breakfast and then went and toured a research lab until lunch. Unless the faculty member is a tour guide, this prof was not working. This is what some depts. do for a prospective student. I'm glad kiln eagle was impressed, but the question was how much work a prof does in a day. All we learned was kiln eagle is easily distracted. P.S. to LVN : Ray Folse has retired, but Myron Henry or Dave Beckett are good suggestions for profs to shadow for a day.

You people are unbelievable. Never seen anything like it.

Can you add a little more substance to your post, Local Merchant? What is "unbelievable" about "you people". Who are "you people", me are the whole board. If you "never seen anything like it", you may need to get out more.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Southern Fried, You have described a condition that occurs when the organization you work for has a discrete shift in focus. A common characteristic of all employees who are productive in their career is that they work better in an environment that is not hostile. Quite often businesses or universities acquire a manager that is a mismatch for the organization. Often these managers are dysfunctional human beings in many dimensions. The outcome is always the same. The employees that are the most mobile leave. ... Sadly, I think that happiness for a UMS faculty is Hattiesburg in their rear view mirror.

As always, I appreciate your sagacious posts. Fortunately our kids are educated and gone and I'm still young enough to be employable elsewhere. Unfortunately, we like Hattiesburg and had planned to retire here. I think I halfway understand the public perception that we at USM don't work very hard, as most locals with whom I've spoken have no frame of reference beyond a job with regular working hours. They see us at home and in public places during their normal working hours and assume we're goofing off. This perception is so pervasive and ingrained that I haven't a clue how to change it short of hiring a press agent. The view of our faculty as slackers and malcontents has been reinforced with great success by Thames and his minions, and we haven't been helped by the scant coverage our HA gives to faculty accomplishments. Even my long time neighbors, who should know better, seem to have adopted the Thames party line. I have friends teaching at Ole Miss, MSU, Mississippi College, and Millsaps and none have complained about being treated as we have, either by their administrators or their communities. What is it about Hattiesburg? Sadly, I think your prescription for happiness is on the mark. It's probably time to go.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Southern Fried wrote:

...The view of our faculty as slackers and malcontents has been reinforced with great success by Thames and his minions, and we haven't been helped by the scant coverage our HA gives to faculty accomplishments. Even my long time neighbors, who should know better, seem to have adopted the Thames party line. I have friends teaching at Ole Miss, MSU, Mississippi College, and Millsaps and none have complained about being treated as we have, either by their administrators or their communities. What is it about Hattiesburg? Sadly, I think your prescription for happiness is on the mark. It's probably time to go.

From the people outside the university that I talk with, it started prior the the Glamser/Stringer mess. Most of them thought that you shouldn't disagree with your boss in the public (newspaper, news, etc.). Their reaction was much like the title of conservative radio host Laura Ingraham's book about celebrities that comment on politics, Shut up and Sing. They were saying, "Shut up and teach." They simply did not understand it as whistle blowing that an important government institution was being mismanaged. In fact, the most common phrase that I heard was "They're just jealous because Shelby Thames is successful." Over and over people talked about jealousy because they thought the profs that were on TV and in the newspaper wanted to run the university. Add to this the comments that Shelby made about the faculty (If they would all just work as hard as me, we would be the best university in the whole world) and the general backlash against academics in conservative circles (listen to someone like Sean Hannity talk about professors...and many people in Hattiesburg do listen to him) and you start to see this attitude toward professors.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

asdf wrote:

listen to someone like Sean Hannity talk about professors...and many people in Hattiesburg do listen to him

I hate to say this, but many of the professors he talks about (e.g., Ward Churchill) truly are embarrassments and deserve to be discussed. All of academe is now reaping what a relative few have sown, but to pretend that those folks are not out there, doing the sowing, would be a grievous mistake. Any professor who uses the university as a forum to push a narrow personal agenda and who is intolerant of disagreement or dissent is contributing to the public's distrust of academe.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

Mirror,

You are dead on. Everyone needs to realize that the days of spending 4 years in school broadening your mind are over. Even back when it was mainstream for all "colleges", only the priviledged few had the opportunity to experience it. Now that equal access is the norm & community colleges have bridged that gap, people that pay tuition want to learn finite skills and become employable to the best companies immediately.

If they wish to broaden their mind, they can participate in lifelong education until they take the great dirt nap.

Of course, there are still many great liberal arts focused undergraduate schools that fill that niche. Bowdoin, Oberlin, Rhodes come to mind. USM, for worse or better (order intended), doesn't have the luxury of following that model due to MS's university governance structure. Fire away

Date: Mar 23, 2006

You are dead on. Everyone needs to realize that the days of spending 4 years in school broadening your mind are over. Even back when it was mainstream for all "colleges", only the privileged few had the opportunity to experience it. Now that equal access is the norm & community colleges have bridged that gap, people that pay tuition want to learn finite skills and become employable to the best companies immediately.

Excuse me, but are you talking about USM broadening minds? I am excited when I have students who can recite from rote memory. As far as learning skills, you must not have looked at the colleges at USM. College of Business, focused on training students in business subjects. College of Education and Psychology, focused on training teachers along with students who can enter the general job market. Nursing and health science, training students for the health care professions. At least half of the students at USM are in a curriculum that is directly job related.

I do not know what a finite skill is, but I do know that employers describe what they want in an employee. It is someone who can learn new skills and can communicate. The biggest complaint that we received in COB when we went to employers and asked them to tell us what they were looking for and what criticisms they had was that the students could not write coherent sentences nor communicate. Bottom line, they are seeking people who can think, learn, and write. Employers tell us that they can train people, but they want people that are trainable. In my opinion, community colleges have not bridged any gap, they have created a gap. It takes a whole year for the average community college graduate to get up to speed and compete at USM.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

You people are unbelievable. Never seen anything like it.

Thank you for the input. It allowed me to remember why I don't buy things from "local" merchants. All of the firms I deal with on the internet are nice to me.

Date: Mar 23, 2006

The Man wrote:

Mirror, You are dead on. Everyone needs to realize that the days of spending 4 years in school broadening your mind are over. Even back when it was mainstream for all "colleges", only the priviledged few had the opportunity to experience it. Now that equal access is the norm & community colleges have bridged that gap, people that pay tuition want to learn finite skills and become employable to the best companies immediately. If they wish to broaden their mind, they can participate in lifelong education until they take the great dirt nap. Of course, there are still many great liberal arts focused undergraduate schools that fill that niche. Bowdoin, Oberlin, Rhodes come to mind. USM, for worse or better (order intended), doesn't have the luxury of following that model due to MS's university governance structure. Fire away

Sorry, but I haven't yet given up on the ideal of the university as a place devoted to the free and civil exchange of ideas and of commitment to disinterested inquiry. It's an ideal I'd like to see protected from the attacks of both the left AND the right (or anyone else, for that matter).

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Cossack wrote:

...I do know that employers describe what they want in an employee. It is someone who can learn new skills and can communicate. The biggest complaint that we received in COB when we went to employers and asked them to tell us what they were looking for and what criticisms they had was that the students could not write coherent sentences nor communicate. Bottom line, they are seeking people who can think, learn, and write. Employers tell us that they can train people, but they want people that are trainable. ...

Exactly, Cossack. Back in my day that is exactly what students had that graduated from a good high school.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

asdf wrote:

I have friends teaching at Ole Miss, MSU, Mississippi College, and Millsaps and none have complained about being treated as we have, either by their administrators or their communities. What is it about Hattiesburg?

asdf, you have asked the question of the century.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Southern Fried wrote:

I have friends teaching at Ole Miss, MSU, Mississippi College, and Millsaps and none have complained about being treated as we have, either by their administrators or their communities.

Southern Fried, I've never heard the William Carey faculty complaining about mistreatment by the community. Do you think the problem might be with USM instead of with Hattiesburg?

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Southern Fried, I've never heard the William Carey faculty complaining about mistreatment by the community. Do you think the problem might be with USM instead of with Hattiesburg?

Nope, it is Hattiesburg. Many of us have been at other universities and did not have a problem. Citizens of other university towns are much less hostile to faculty.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Many of us have been at other universities and did not have a problem. Citizens of other university towns are much less hostile to faculty.

I really don't get it. I'm think I'm a pretty "regular guy." I'm happily married, was active as a Boy Scout leader when my son was younger, worship regularly at a neighborhood church, give generously to local charities, mow my own lawn, wash my own car, am an avid sports fan, play ball with the neighborhood kids, have a beer with my neighbors, go out of my way to be cordial, am never condescending to anyone. So why the hostility? I don't sense a hostile attitude from my immediate neighbors but obviously the Hattiesburg community at large has a low opinion of university professors. Maybe we really do need an image consultant.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Southern Fried,

You ask some good questions. I have pondered about this for some time. While ours neighbors often are cordial, it has become apparent that many of them do not like us. It is my opinion that we were not liked when Lucas was President or when Fleming was President. However, people did not feel comfortable opening attacking faculty even if they held them in distain. SFT make it respectable to openly hold faculty in distain and to criticize them openly because unlike Lucas and Fleming SFT dislikes faculty and was openly critical of faculty. That gave the signal that it was open season on faculty. We then found out that people we used as doctors, realtors, accounts, etc. did not like us. Among a certain upper income group, it became respectable to bash faculty. Once the floodgate was open, many jumped into the stream. That is how you end up with young people such as Wanderer and Kiln Eagle posting their crap on this site. We are an acceptable group to harass. I think we are fortunate that one of the young nut jobs has not attacked a faculty physically. If you cannot tell from my post, I am very pessimistic about things getting any better.

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Since professors are generally smarter than the average joe, could it be that the general public is just resenting smarter people (like kids in high school)? If one uses his smarts to benefit the average joe, then they might like us better. Outreach/economic development?

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Southern Fried, You ask some good questions. I have pondered about this for some time. While ours neighbors often are cordial, it has become apparent that many of them do not like us. It is my opinion that we were not liked when Lucas was President or when Fleming was President. However, people did not feel comfortable opening attacking faculty even if they held them in distain. SFT make it respectable to openly hold faculty in distain and to criticize them openly because unlike Lucas and Fleming SFT dislikes faculty and was openly critical of faculty. That gave the signal that it was open season on faculty. We then found out that people we used as doctors, realtors, accounts, etc. did not like us. Among a certain upper income group, it became respectable to bash faculty. Once the floodgate was open, many jumped into the stream. That is how you end up with young people such as Wanderer and Kiln Eagle posting their crap on this site. We are an acceptable group to harass. I think we are fortunate that one of the young nut jobs has not attacked a faculty physically. If you cannot tell from my post, I am very pessimistic about things getting any better.

Do the William Carey faculty have the same problem or is it unique to USM?

Date: Mar 24, 2006

Do the William Carey faculty have the same problem or is it unique to USM?

The faculty of a degree mill is fundamentally different from the faculty of a university. Once USM has reached terminal degree mill status in 5 to 10 years the conflict between the community and the faculty will be over. Degree mill faculty members are just "regular" folks. Of course, the graduates of degree mills get the same sort of salary "regular" folks get.