Economics Searches - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 20, 2006

RE: Economics Searches

Date: Mar 20, 2006

By my count, EFIB has lost 5 to retirement or better offers so far and it has 8 more faculty who are not in PERS. The 7 who are in PERS aren't going anywhere. This must be one of the 8 non-PERS people who got this offer. My internet doesn't work half the time, but from some of the emails I've seen and heard, there will definitely be 6 vitas in the mail this summer.

Date: Mar 20, 2006

Sounds like many more opportunities for botched search.

Date: Mar 20, 2006

drano wrote:

Sounds like many more opportunities for botched search.

Don't know about that, but look for the current search(es) to get dirty. Friends and neighbors. That's what I'm talkin bout.

Date: Mar 20, 2006

Breaking Bonadoty wrote:

drano wrote: Sounds like many more opportunities for botched search. Don't know about that, but look for the current search(es) to get dirty. Friends and neighbors. That's what I'm talkin bout.

Don't worry, the jockeying has already begun. News travels fast.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

USM Economics/Finance/Int Bus Department: 21 faculty (approx)

Tier I Grads=9

Tier II Grads=8

Tier III Grads=2

Tier IV Grads=2

(Done using US News 2006, per origin of PhD)

Date: Mar 21, 2006

dome SW (fact checker) wrote:

USM Economics/Finance/Int Bus Department: 21 faculty (approx) Tier I Grads=9 Tier II Grads=8 Tier III Grads=2 Tier IV Grads=2 (Done using US News 2006, per origin of PhD)

I've noticed this "Tier" business in other threads, and wonder what in the h*ll this is supposed to mean. What relevance does this have? Where your degree comes from is meaningless, if you don't publish. I personally know some top scholars with Tier III pedigrees. And, I've seen pedigrees that sparkle, that fail to get tenure at Tier II and lower schools.

My only explanation is that "dome" is enamored with their own Tier I degree, and is embittered and upset with their own sorry lot in life here at USM ("How come I'm not at Michigan, where I belong"). I've seen this before - People who graduate from "Superduper U", and then: 1) look down their noses at the rest of us, and 2) trade on their degree as if it confers special status.

So - dome, you keep on "keeping score" of pedigrees. We'll take care of the scholarship.

End of rant

Count

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Counting the days wrote:

Where your degree comes from is meaningless, if you don't publish. I personally know some top scholars with Tier III pedigrees. And, I've seen pedigrees that sparkle, that fail to get tenure at Tier II and lower schools.

Truer words were never spoken, Count. The name of the university might help get the job, even for the incompetent, but to keep the job ...... well, you're own your own baby.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Count, I think there are students who work in the dome that are working on these "projects," and others....

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Counting the days wrote:

dome SW (fact checker) wrote: USM Economics/Finance/Int Bus Department: 21 faculty (approx) Tier I Grads=9 Tier II Grads=8 Tier III Grads=2 Tier IV Grads=2 (Done using US News 2006, per origin of PhD) I've noticed this "Tier" business in other threads, and wonder what in the h*ll this is supposed to mean. What relevance does this have? Where your degree comes from is meaningless, if you don't publish. I personally know some top scholars with Tier III pedigrees. And, I've seen pedigrees that sparkle, that fail to get tenure at Tier II and lower schools. My only explanation is that "dome" is enamored with their own Tier I degree, and is embittered and upset with their own sorry lot in life here at USM ("How come I'm not at Michigan, where I belong"). I've seen this before - People who graduate from "Superduper U", and then: 1) look down their noses at the rest of us, and 2) trade on their degree as if it confers special status. So - dome, you keep on "keeping score" of pedigrees. We'll take care of the scholarship. End of rant Count

Count, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Tier doesn't matter. Then you would agree with me that USM's fall from Tier 3 to Tier 4 in the magazine is meaningless. I think so. I think you would also support a statement like "Freeing the Power of the Individual."

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Wanderer wrote:

Count, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Tier doesn't matter. Then you would agree with me that USM's fall from Tier 3 to Tier 4 in the magazine is meaningless.

Excuse me, Count, but I must respond to this one. Wanderer, that's not at all what The Count said. Reduction in Tier level means fewer good applicants - students as well as faculty applicants. The Count said that graduates of Tier 1 or Tier 2 schools are not necessarily better than those graduating from Tier 2 or Tier 3 schools. It's productivity that counts.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Tierrany wrote:

Excuse me, Count, but I must respond to this one. Wanderer, that's not at all what The Count said. Reduction in Tier level means fewer good applicants - students as well as faculty applicants. The Count said that graduates of Tier 1 or Tier 2 schools are not necessarily better than those graduating from Tier 2 or Tier 3 schools. It's productivity that counts.

Woah, Nellie!

Either Tier ranking matters or it doesn't. If Tier ranking doesn't matter, then SFT hasn't hurt USM at all.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Tier matters for the prestige of the institution. Graduates of higher-tier institutions borrow some of that prestige when they apply for graduate school or for jobs. However, they can only borrow so much. Once in grad school, medical school, or on the job, the INDIVIDUAL has to produce, and at that point, the tier level of the degree-granting institution becomes less important.

It helps an institution attract better caliber students to have a number of graduates of higher-tier schools on its faculty. However, that doesn't mean that those graduates on an INDIVIDUAL basis are necessarily better teachers, researchers, etc.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Yes, Tieranny and Apples - that is exactly what I was getting at. You build through your faculty, but only if those faculty are productive and active faculty.

Count

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Apples and oranges wrote:

Tier matters for the prestige of the institution. Graduates of higher-tier institutions borrow some of that prestige when they apply for graduate school or for jobs. However, they can only borrow so much. Once in grad school, medical school, or on the job, the INDIVIDUAL has to produce, and at that point, the tier level of the degree-granting institution becomes less important. It helps an institution attract better caliber students to have a number of graduates of higher-tier schools on its faculty. However, that doesn't mean that those graduates on an INDIVIDUAL basis are necessarily better teachers, researchers, etc.

Are you saying quality is divorced from Tiers? Tiers=reputation and that's all?

Date: Mar 21, 2006

question wrote:

... Are you saying quality is divorced from Tiers? Tiers=reputation and that's all?

Tier level is indicative of past quality performance. But like stocks past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Apples and oranges wrote:

Tier matters for the prestige of the institution. Graduates of higher-tier institutions borrow some of that prestige when they apply for graduate school or for jobs. However, they can only borrow so much. Once in grad school, medical school, or on the job, the INDIVIDUAL has to produce, and at that point, the tier level of the degree-granting institution becomes less important. It helps an institution attract better caliber students to have a number of graduates of higher-tier schools on its faculty. However, that doesn't mean that those graduates on an INDIVIDUAL basis are necessarily better teachers, researchers, etc.

You said it much better than I did.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Why would anyone argue that Tier level means nothing? Tier level is one of the ways the world sees us. Our reputation. That reputation is based on important measures.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Like Stocks wrote:

question wrote:
... Are you saying quality is divorced from Tiers? Tiers=reputation and that's all?

Tier level is indicative of past quality performance. But like stocks past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

This theory of investment is most often subscribed to be academics in finance rather than by practitioners. Practitioners very often believe that past performance will reassert itself in some way, hence the entire field of technical analysis.

If I understand the rest of the argument that your Tier status is reputational only, let me query: Are you assuming that the education received at Tier IV schools is equal to that received at Tier I schools?

Date: Mar 21, 2006

K. Jackson wrote:

This theory of investment is most often subscribed to be academics in finance rather than by practitioners. Practitioners very often believe that past performance will reassert itself in some way, hence the entire field of technical analysis.

If I understand the rest of the argument that your Tier status is reputational only, let me query: Are you assuming that the education received at Tier IV schools is equal to that received at Tier I schools?

I should also add that very few academics in business are worth their weight in manure when it comes to actually running a business. I'm a self-taught investor who has read books and talked to people who actually invest other people's money on a daily basis. Academic investing methods still don't hold a candle to real hard-nosed experience.

Date: Mar 21, 2006

Yesterday, I Posted This:

By my count, EFIB has lost 5 to retirement or better offers so far and it has 8 more faculty who are not in PERS. The 7 who are in PERS aren't going anywhere. This must be one of the 8 non-PERS people who got this offer. My internet doesn't work half the time, but from some of the emails I've seen and heard, there will definitely be 6 vitas in the mail this summer.

Today, I am Posting This:

By my count, EFIB has lost 6 to retirement or better offers so far and it has 7 more faculty who are not in PERS. The 7 who are in PERS aren't going anywhere. This must be one of the 7 non-PERS people who got this offer. My internet still doesn't work half the time, but from some of the emails I've seen and heard, there will definitely be 7 EFIB vitas in the mail this summer. Doty's latest round of shenanigans has taken its toll. Remember, Harold ------- now that USM's a 4th Tier school there are many more upward moves available.