respect - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 3, 2006

RE: respect

Date: Mar 3, 2006

LVN--i agree.

Date: Mar 3, 2006

Wow, somebody went to a lot of trouble to dig that out! Thanks a lot.

And I have to confess, FireShelby called ME a cab and sent me home once or twice! FireShelby, wherever you are, hope all is well. We miss you!

Date: Mar 3, 2006

LVN wrote:

FireShelby, wherever you are, hope all is well. We miss you!

Ditto!

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Right wrote:

So registration will prevent administrators from retaliating against faculty how? Anonimity protects those who are without other protections.

It's not the administrators I worry about. It is the other faculty that I might disagree with. If the CoB posts illustrate anything, it is that many faculty members at USM hold grudges for a long time (and not just in the CoB). Registration will result in a cheerleader board much like eagle talk. I do realize that this is what many of you want, a place where you can be told how right you are without any disagreement.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

I have read the posts advocating registration with both interest and amusement. I marvel how wise the framers were to protect speech. The development of this Board had its roots in the Fire Shelby Board. Shelby was a common threat to the University (and still is) and most posters had the same focus. Over time, many diverse topics from the serious to trivial have been discussed. It stretches from quite serious discussions of Board policy, Presidential search policy, political issues surrounding Hattiesburg, to issues with individual colleges, and on to the antics of a silly French speaking airhead. Some threads I read and some I skip when I find out they are uninteresting or silly.

The Board has become diverse, which seems to bother some posters. However, I suspect those posters who are bothered by the diversity on the Board are pro diversity when addressing social issues. We all like to huddle in our own small groups where we have similar views. In my case, it is a really small group; if you count my dog it increases the size of my group by 50%.

Since I choose to isolate myself with my actions, I am prone to know less and less about faculty and activities in other colleges. This Board has provided me with access to knowledge about other faculty and other colleges. It has allowed me to interact intellectually with others in a way that I have not before in my many years at USM.

I fear the attempt to require registration stems from a desire to narrow the group so as to avoid the clutter of competing ideas and competing viewpoints. If you surveyed the members as to the topics and posts that they want filtered from the Board, I suspect there would be very few acceptable topics. My choice would be to eliminate the French speaking airhead.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Wise remarks, Cossack. Although cogent arguments have been advanced for registration, I think we will, at the end of the day, gain more information through the current configuration. Although many are justifiably concerned about the nature of some of the comments, I believe that in the final analysis AAUP gains in stature by providing the forum for making them.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

I have read the posts advocating registration with both interest and amusement. I marvel how wise the framers were to protect speech. The development of this Board had its roots in the Fire Shelby Board. Shelby was a common threat to the University (and still is) and most posters had the same focus. Over time, many diverse topics from the serious to trivial have been discussed. It stretches from quite serious discussions of Board policy, Presidential search policy, political issues surrounding Hattiesburg, to issues with individual colleges, and on to the antics of a silly French speaking airhead. Some threads I read and some I skip when I find out they are uninteresting or silly. The Board has become diverse, which seems to bother some posters. However, I suspect those posters who are bothered by the diversity on the Board are pro diversity when addressing social issues. We all like to huddle in our own small groups where we have similar views. In my case, it is a really small group; if you count my dog it increases the size of my group by 50%. Since I choose to isolate myself with my actions, I am prone to know less and less about faculty and activities in other colleges. This Board has provided me with access to knowledge about other faculty and other colleges. It has allowed me to interact intellectually with others in a way that I have not before in my many years at USM. I fear the attempt to require registration stems from a desire to narrow the group so as to avoid the clutter of competing ideas and competing viewpoints. If you surveyed the members as to the topics and posts that they want filtered from the Board, I suspect there would be very few acceptable topics. My choice would be to eliminate the French speaking airhead.

Actually Cossack, I think those who support registration have a good point. I'm so slammed for time these days that I'm not on the board as much as in the past. But frankly, I also don't have time to wade through all of the postings by people who aren't interested in using the board in the ways you suggest, but are simply scrambling the conversation. Anonymous posting has now become an abused strategy for those who are interested in starting rumors; flaming those they disagree with; and libeling people without benefit of bearing responsibility for even trying to build a credible identity. Look how ,many posts there are from people who post under one name only and then (clearly) move on to make another comment under another name.

This confusion of identities makes meaningful conversation difficult. Anonymous posting depends upon some degree of reliability on the part of a poster -- I may not know your name but I come to know you (and trust that you are genuine) because we have a continued dialogue. One shot posters are ruining the conversation, not because they provide diversity, but because in fact, they obscure the nature of the diversity that may really exist among posters.

I'm done for the day.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

.... My choice would be to eliminate the French speaking airhead.

Hey der, Cossack, watch what ya say bout dem nice French ladies, yea. Me, Boudreaux n T-Fred may need to come have a talk wit you bout dat.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack, you must not understand many of the uses of humor. Mademoiselle de Guerre (you get the name, do you not? Guerre is French for war) has a little stiletto, or at least a large sharp hat-pin, hidden in the folds of her pink sparkling pegnoir. Sometimes her escapades are just for fun, but usually there is a message in the madness.

If Judge Cooley were still among us, Mlle. de Guerre would be grateful to retire to her country home.

Sorry you don't like her.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

I have read the posts advocating registration with both interest and amusement. I marvel how wise the framers were to protect speech. The development of this Board had its roots in the Fire Shelby Board. Shelby was a common threat to the University (and still is) and most posters had the same focus. Over time, many diverse topics from the serious to trivial have been discussed. It stretches from quite serious discussions of Board policy, Presidential search policy, political issues surrounding Hattiesburg, to issues with individual colleges, and on to the antics of a silly French speaking airhead. Some threads I read and some I skip when I find out they are uninteresting or silly. The Board has become diverse, which seems to bother some posters. However, I suspect those posters who are bothered by the diversity on the Board are pro diversity when addressing social issues. We all like to huddle in our own small groups where we have similar views. In my case, it is a really small group; if you count my dog it increases the size of my group by 50%. Since I choose to isolate myself with my actions, I am prone to know less and less about faculty and activities in other colleges. This Board has provided me with access to knowledge about other faculty and other colleges. It has allowed me to interact intellectually with others in a way that I have not before in my many years at USM. I fear the attempt to require registration stems from a desire to narrow the group so as to avoid the clutter of competing ideas and competing viewpoints. If you surveyed the members as to the topics and posts that they want filtered from the Board, I suspect there would be very few acceptable topics. My choice would be to eliminate the French speaking airhead.

You are incorrect Cossack. Posts can be deleted with or without registration. The Webmaster can delete posts that come from the gutter and has done so in the past. Diversity of opinion has never been censored. My motivation for calling the AAUP discussion on how to manage the board is not driven by a need on my part to limit diversity of opinion (else you don't know me). It is motivated by my obligations as the President of AAUP USM. That is, AAUP's future on this campus is of paramount concern to me. If you know how to do it better, you are welcome to take over my position next year.

This board is associated with a specific organization--the AAUP. There are no "members" of this board. Only posters-most of whom are anonymous. But there are members of the AAUP, and their voices will be the one's to determine how this board is run. If you wish to have a say, come to the AAUP meeting and have a say. Stop isolating yourself. We need your support.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

The responses to my post pretty much conforms to what I put in my post. Bright educated people are only homogeneous in that they are bright and educated. Their wisdom, knowledge, and wit are as varied as their personalities. Except for Mitch's job offer, the responses are as I expected from a diverse group of thinkers. Even the French Airhead made sense. I will decline Mitch's job offer on the grounds that I do not have the patience or organization skills necessary for the job. As for shifting through the posts, it does take time and energy. It resembles searching through the New York Times for the truth. Sometimes it is not worth the effort, sometimes it is worth the effort.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

I must stay anonymous. No way to do anything else.

This board has been a lifeline for me.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

The responses to my post pretty much conforms to what I put in my post. Bright educated people are only homogeneous in that they are bright and educated. Their wisdom, knowledge, and wit are as varied as their personalities. Except for Mitch's job offer, the responses are as I expected from a diverse group of thinkers. Even the French Airhead made sense. I will decline Mitch's job offer on the grounds that I do not have the patience or organization skills necessary for the job. As for shifting through the posts, it does take time and energy. It resembles searching through the New York Times for the truth. Sometimes it is not worth the effort, sometimes it is worth the effort.

Cossack:

Patience and organizational skills are not required to serve. I'm not sure that there are any job requirements-you don't even need to know how to use a stapler or be able to lift 40 pounds. If you are not member of AAUP, please join. If you are a member, please attend the meeting.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

As for shifting through the posts, it does take time and energy. It resembles searching through the New York Times for the truth.

Cossack,

I have emerged from retirement to commend you for your superb analogy. Those who would seek the truth in the pages of the New York Times will find in short order that they're SOL.

Diogenes

Date: Mar 4, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

Look how ,many posts there are from people who post under one name only and then (clearly) move on to make another comment under another name. This confusion of identities makes meaningful conversation difficult. Anonymous posting depends upon some degree of reliability on the part of a poster -- I may not know your name but I come to know you (and trust that you are genuine) because we have a continued dialogue. One shot posters are ruining the conversation, not because they provide diversity, but because in fact, they obscure the nature of the diversity that may really exist among posters. I'm done for the day.

I agree with Stephen on this. I don't mind 8 threads about CoB, 6 on Doty and 5 on Dovark all on one page. What I mind is the senseless post in these threads claiming negative actions that are just a matter of opinion, rumors and repeated assertions without evidence. All of this by posters who use so many names a conversation is impossible.

I wouldn't want registration for this board because I too want to post occasionly under other names, but how else can we communicate with all of the nonsense (not humor) being posted just to occupy space.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Professor Berman,

Thank you for your offer. I just renewed my national membership this week and I have sent an email to Professor Bethel requesting the address to send the check for the local dues. I also will write another check, as I did last year, to help defray the expenses of running this Board. In my opinion, this Board has done more to create cohesiveness among faculty than any thing else that has been done at USM, hence, my concern with requiring registration. The issue is not the ability to delete posts, as you state that can be done currently. There remains a great deal of paranoia among faculty about being singled out by administrators for punitive action. I think that registration will reduce participation and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the Board in communicating across colleges and departments. I will remain noncommittal about attending meetings, but it could happen.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Where can I send funds to help support the board? I'll gladly do so.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Professor Berman, Thank you for your offer. I just renewed my national membership this week and I have sent an email to Professor Bethel requesting the address to send the check for the local dues. I also will write another check, as I did last year, to help defray the expenses of running this Board. In my opinion, this Board has done more to create cohesiveness among faculty than any thing else that has been done at USM, hence, my concern with requiring registration. The issue is not the ability to delete posts, as you state that can be done currently. There remains a great deal of paranoia among faculty about being singled out by administrators for punitive action. I think that registration will reduce participation and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the Board in communicating across colleges and departments. I will remain noncommittal about attending meetings, but it could happen.

Cossack:

Professor Berman? That's about the most respect I have received in 10 years at USM! I just renewed today also-I sent in the bank draft form, so it is only about $12 a month.

As a member of AAUP, your input is valued and appreciated. I understand the notion of being targeted--and paranoia has nothing to do with it.

An alternative to (or in conjunction with) registration is to adjust how moderating is done (right now it is one anonymous person). Or, just leave things as they are and let the chips fall where they may. These are not trivial issues, and all members of AAUP need to be free to voice their opinion in an open meeting. Hope you attend.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

May interested non-members attend?

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Mitch, ..err... Professor Berman, can retired faculty joined AAUP? I hope the dues are reduced for us fixed income people. Come to think of it, most of USM are on "fixed income" unless you get MIDAS $$$.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

LVN wrote:

May interested non-members attend?

Yes, of course.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

LeftASAP wrote:

Mitch, ..err... Professor Berman, can retired faculty joined AAUP? I hope the dues are reduced for us fixed income people. Come to think of it, most of USM are on "fixed income" unless you get MIDAS $$$.

Yes, I know of one emeritus who pays his dues religiously. Look at the national website to see if you qualify for one of the reduced fee categories. www.aaup.org

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Frankly, I prefer an open board. I want previews of what the opposition thinks to better protect myself and to better plan my battles and to better understand their position. I am not forced to read what others say or reply to them.

You are heading toward a choir where everyone sings the same song.

If you close the board to unregistered posting you will fade away into your own "underground" club, where your message is only heard by yourselves.

Having an open board has led to a national awareness of the plight of faculty and staff at USM.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Advocating Devil wrote:

Trolls are something we have to live with on this board.

Trolls do have a strange sort of value here. They serve as a sounding board for legitimate posters. Trolls, when they do present themselves, bring up some issues which would not otherwise be presented on the message board. Those issues are usually rather naive ones and were resolved years ago by universities across the country. Trolls do not seem to understand that. Thus, the message board has an educative function. I have no problem with trolls bringing issues and questions to the message board. I'm not afraid of trolls -- whether they post under their real name or under an assumed name. If what a troll says contains profanity or is otherwise off-the-wall, then ignore them and they'll go away.

Date: Mar 4, 2006

Trolling down the river wrote:

Advocating Devil wrote: Trolls are something we have to live with on this board. Trolls do have a strange sort of value here. They serve as a sounding board for legitimate posters. Trolls, when they do present themselves, bring up some issues which would not otherwise be presented on the message board. Those issues are usually rather naive ones and were resolved years ago by universities across the country. Trolls do not seem to understand that. Thus, the message board has an educative function. I have no problem with trolls bringing issues and questions to the message board. I'm not afraid of trolls -- whether they post under their real name or under an assumed name. If what a troll says contains profanity or is otherwise off-the-wall, then ignore them and they'll go away.

I'm not afraid of trolls either -- just mildly annoyed. A bit like trying to play a game with someone who keeps arbitrarily changing the rules . . . at some point the game becomes pointless and playing simply loses its appeal.

But, as several people have pointed out, an open board allows everyone to have access . . . get in on the conversation. One hopes the payoff in the exchange of ideas is worth enduring the background noise . . .

Date: Mar 5, 2006

Trolling down the river wrote:

Advocating Devil wrote: Trolls are something we have to live with on this board. Trolls do have a strange sort of value here. They serve as a sounding board for legitimate posters. Trolls, when they do present themselves, bring up some issues which would not otherwise be presented on the message board. Those issues are usually rather naive ones and were resolved years ago by universities across the country. Trolls do not seem to understand that. Thus, the message board has an educative function. I have no problem with trolls bringing issues and questions to the message board. I'm not afraid of trolls -- whether they post under their real name or under an assumed name. If what a troll says contains profanity or is otherwise off-the-wall, then ignore them and they'll go away.

I don't mind trolls. Trolls are not the problem, they provide for stimulating debate. The problem is what I call "disruptors". These posters start threads, several on the same topic, using names never before used on the board. They start rumors, attack people on trivial or childish issues, etc without supplying evidence or ways to check their claims. They then respond to their own post under different names claiming they too have evidence for the claims. These people just want to smother the board and not engage in meaningful conversation. Evidence that they are achieving their goal of disrupting communication is this discussion of changing this board to a registration only board.

Date: Mar 5, 2006

Cossack wrote:

In my opinion, this Board has done more to create cohesiveness among faculty than any thing else that has been done at USM, hence, my concern with requiring registration. The issue is not the ability to delete posts, as you state that can be done currently. There remains a great deal of paranoia among faculty about being singled out by administrators for punitive action. I think that registration will reduce participation and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the Board in communicating across colleges and departments.

As I stated above, Cossack's on target with this. That said, let me point out that I view Cossack's posts about the way he views the New York Times. I want to be sure he feels free to state his point completely--and I, in turn, will happily refute it (unless somebody else beats me to the punch, which often happens).

As we often repeat here, when they're really out to get you, isn't paranoia anymore.

Even Judd seems to be backing away from his previous position some.

The open board does more good than harm; and I think it improves the chances that an outsider with valuable information will post it here, but might not put it on a board with registration.

Date: Mar 5, 2006

LVN wrote:

"Free speech" applies to public life, it does not apply to private situations. This is not a public forum. It is a private forum, the owners of which decided to keep open this long. I would reprise my "Fireshelby's House" message from a year or two ago, if I could remember it. The gist of it is, you and I are guests here, and the host has the privilege of showing us the door whenever. (My brother belongs to several message boards for his hobby. I was telling him about our situation and his comment was, "I'm surprized you've been able to keep it open this long. Most message boards go to registration very quickly, or they get spammed and trolled to death.")

Of course the owner of this board can censure anything at anytime. Just don't bother to place a statement at the head of the board advocating free speech.That's known as hypocrisy. A trait very common among university professors.

Date: Mar 5, 2006

LeftASAP wrote:

Evidence that they are achieving their goal of disrupting communication is this discussion of changing this board to a registration only board.

You are correct. Shutting down the board to registration only means reduced communication between all.....akin to the Indians cutting the telegraph lines.

Less communication means we are less safe....less informed....less able to handle daily challenges......less prepared......