Troubling Visit from Neighbor Last Night - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 14, 2006

RE: Troubling Visit from Neighbor Last Night

Date: Jan 14, 2006

Giving the old stereotyping skills a real workout today, eh J.Jay? If you had bothered to read much of this board, you would have seen that all of your presumptions are false--but hell, that would have interfered with your need to pigeonhole, wouldn't it? [Don't confuse you with the facts, etc.]

Date: Jan 14, 2006

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Date: Jan 14, 2006

The Washington Post article, while true in most instances, does not reflect the faculty at many of the directional schools--or the fourth tier ones. USM? My experience was that there is a huge mix, a mix reflecting that of the general population.

Date: Jan 14, 2006

I see the faculty members at USM in general as far more liberal than one might predict considering the many apects of USM's ultra- conservative history (the Exit 13 era, a history of perpetuating an academically inbred and local faculty for many years, Mississippi's highly polititicized system of higher education, etc.). My perception is that the younger faculty in general have more of a late 1960's to an early 1970's "Antioch College" attitude (or a world view more like other liberal midwestern schools of the post- Vietnam era such as Kenyon College) than do the oldtimers. Even some disciplines at USM that typically attract a generally conservative group of faculty members at other universities attract a generally liberal group here. Considering the fact that USM is a Southern institution, it is an anomaly. That's my impression.

Date: Jan 15, 2006

Gone, gone, gone wrote:

The Washington Post article, while true in most instances, does not reflect the faculty at many of the directional schools--or the fourth tier ones. USM? My experience was that there is a huge mix, a mix reflecting that of the general population.

The article actually does say this:

"The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier colleges and universities."

Date: Jan 15, 2006

Voter wrote:

Giving the old stereotyping skills a real workout today, eh J.Jay? If you had bothered to read much of this board, you would have seen that all of your presumptions are false--but hell, that would have interfered with your need to pigeonhole, wouldn't it? [Don't confuse you with the facts, etc.]

See the Washington Post story.Do you have evidence to refute it? Unfortunately stereotypes are often true.

Date: Jan 15, 2006

J.Jay wrote:

Unfortunately stereotypes are often true.

What a convoluted statement. That would mean that facts are often stereotypes.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

I know its a bit late to be weighing in on this subject since the discussion has degenerated into an arguement over the political bias of college professors. However, I just became aware of this posting and thought I would respond to it. I am a Ph.D. student and T.A. in the history department, and I can tell you that what Angeline said is actually correct. None of us are teaching or have taught U.S. history in quite a while. We are generally restricted to World Civ I and II. We rarely even T.A. in those classes, so I too am a bit skeptical about this story. I am also offended by the fact that you automatically taken this story at face value without looking into it for yourselfs. Had you have looked at course catalogue for last semester you would have known that none of us taught US history last semester. But it is obvious that you are biased against us... since you automatically took it at face value, and since you say things such as "explain the difference to your neighbor between at TA and a regular faculty member." Just remember a lot of you professors were once Grad students and T.A.s as well. Therefore, I dont think its fair for you to portray us as incompetent or politically biased just because we haven't earned our doctorates yet.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

to the history grad student

First, there is a difference between faculty and graduate students. TA's may be doing an excellent job in the classroom; of that there is no doubt. But the truth is that until you've passed those exams and written that dissertation, you are still a student. You have yet to pass muster.

Second, I don't think there was any intent to insult TA's. If there were a problem, it would be a problem in oversight from the faculty. It is true, however, that for the most part, TA's are not as experienced--in dealing with student problems, in testing, etc.

That said, God bless TA's. I was one myself and know how hard it is to be a serious graduate student and teach and grade papers. We are lucky to have you.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Dear grad student,

For one thing, be careful when you say "you" on this board. It's not clear who is meant. A lot of different people post here and many are not USM faculty (although many are former faculty and staff.)

I discussed this situation with two faculty, including one from history, at a meeting yesterday and their thought was that the story got garbled in transmission. It's also possible that the student wrote a good paper but did not actually fulfill the assignment, although I personally would have insisted on a rewrite rather than giving an F if that were the case. I think it's important to have students "clear" their topics ahead of time and to see at least one draft. That could avoid a lot of problems.

In any case, my source in the history department didn't know of any follow-up from the student, so there may be more here than meets the eye.

And keep up the good work. I've been a TA in English and a GA in history; it's a tough job and you are critical to the success of your department.

PS threads almost always wander off onto some other topic. Nature of the beast.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

I'd like to second what Old Timer said, in all three paragraphs. I didn't sense anyone was trying to diss TAs, though TAs should themselves realize that they're still apprentices. Indeed, by no means do all graduate students or ever A.B.D.s become Ph.D.s, so the advancement is not guaranteed. (And, er, you might proofread--selfs?--and make sure you don't yourself jump to conclusions in the maximum-stress time of the week before class.) But yes, God bless you. When I forget what it felt like--though it has felt worse since--it will be time to retire.

Jameela

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Oh dear, my parenthetical comment above sounds passive-aggressive, and probably was. Please delete it, if only mentally.

Talk about maximum stress!

JL

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Ahhh,

Here comes the arrogance that we grad students have come to know and love so well! First of all we realize that we are still apprentices and have not earned equality yet. However, I am merely trying to point out that had it been suggested that one of your own had given the student an F you would be far more skeptical towards the source of the story. Secondly Dr. Lairs, thanks for the insulting post. I love how you wrote about how much you care about your students etc...and how we should think about the students in previous posts (such as the Thames affair) but when one of us speaks up to defend ourselves, you talk to us as if we were children. Yes massa, sorry for talking back, we T.A.'s will get back down where we supposed to be now.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

By the way Dr. Lares,

You need to do some proofreading yourself. You wrote ever instead of even. :)

Date: Jan 16, 2006

History grad student, you are over-reacting to Dr. Lares' comments. I know her well enough to tell you that she is not at all arrogant or condescending and genuinely loves students. I have NEVER known her to be insulting to anyone.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

History grad student: What? Why? Dr. Lares has consistently shown compassion and good sense towards all intellectual areas of USM. Why she continues to stay at USM, when she is such an esteemed scholar and human being, is beyond me. These recent attacks on faithful posters seems a little forced to me. What world of yours is being shook? Are you sure it has to do with being a history grad student? Me thinks not.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Actually Emma you may be correct. There may be more to it than meets the eye. Maybe something else is motivating my comments. The truth is a lot of grad students have had an axe to grind with the profs since the conclusion of the Glamser-Stringer affair. We protested for our profs, we rallied behind them, and some of us (myself included) even got kicked out of a basketball game for protesting for them. In the meantime they told us that they they would stand with us, and they would fight with us against SFT. However, as soon as they had the chance many of them bolted and left us high and dry with empty promises and a questionable future. I can't even put a proper committee together now because so many of my profs have left. So you wonder why I am angry? Thats why. In fact I wouldnt even be at USM for my PhD had not some of my profs (who are now gone) told me that they would be here to serve on my committee. Am I upset? You are darn right I am. But when I made the comments about Dr. Lares it had nothing to do with her integrity. It had to do with the comments in her response, which included a childish statement about a grammatical error of mine, though I find it humours that she made one as well. Anyway, I apologize if I came off as rude, but myself and several other grad students at USM are unhappy with their profs.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Dr. Lares taught me to write and she is fantastic. She was just doing what English profs do...so back off. By insulting professors, you do yourself and your school a major disservice.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

History Grad Student, what you say makes a lot of sense. I certainly understand and relate to the formation and progession of grad students' committees. No wonder you are upset, I'd be too. I still stand by the integrity of a faculty member who could have bolted long ago and didn't. She's got a whole different burden on her shoulders than you do -- but hey, I don't blame you for your anger -- it's your life, and you have a right to be upset over the dismal situation that you entered into with innocent eyes.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

The following assumes that history grad student is on the up-and-up.

The comments by history grad student remind me of what EVERY scholarship athlete is told explicitly in writing when he or she signs a letter of intent to attend a college or university: You are signing with the institution and not the coach.

I have sympathy for you, I really do. You have experienced what college athletes experience when their coach leaves for another job, what some church members feel when their pastor is called to another church, and some of what most victims of adultery feel when their spouses cheat. Consider it a lesson.

It's interesting that you seem to have a one-sided view of the situation, though. Your profs left for better jobs. It's not like ditched you just to ditch you. When they left you, they also left friends and neighbors, favorite places, tenure (probably--or at least years toward tenure) and a known environment for the chance to get to a better place. They took a risk. That was their choice. You, on the other hand, stayed. You knew USM. You were already enrolled, had taken many classes, and had set up a life in Hattiesburg. You were not willing to take a risk and transfer to another school. That was your choice. Both you and your profs have to live with your choices, for good and for bad.

Now, years later, you feel resentment. You were lied to. You were lured here under false pretenses. I'll bet that's just how your profs felt before they left. One day soon you'll graduate and be able to leave USM. Just don't make anybody any promises. I've never known a man that could keep all the promises he made.

Date: Jan 16, 2006

Ok, a few things here.

First of all, to former Dr. Lares Student, you are really funny warning me to back off over the internet. What are you going to do if I don't? Find me and beat me up???? You don't even know who I am.

Secondly, to Emma, thanks for understanding. I may have been over the top with a few of the comments I have made tonight, but I have been frustrated with the situation at USM for quite a while and I guess I let my anger get the best of me. Also, I have no doubt that Dr. Lares is a great prof. I have heard a lot of good things about her and I have read a lot of her posts and I agree with most of them. Also, I'm glad that she had the courage and the loyalty to stick around when so many of her colleagues did not.That being said, I felt that her response to my original post was a little aggressive and insulting. Therefore, I directed some of my comments towards her. However, I only did so because of her post. Ninety percent of what I said has nothing to do with just her though. Most of it simply has to do with my frustrations with the current situation at USM.

To Better Boy, let me explain to you why I did not transfer to another school. Evidently you don't know the rules about transferring graduate hours from one school to another. You can only transfer about 3-6 hours depending on the school. Therefore, if I had left, I would lose nearly all of the classes I had taken and would have to start all over again, delaying the start of my real life by at least a year, maybe more. Also, I understand that the professors too had tough decisions to make when they had to decide to leave or stay. However, I only wish that they could have been a little more truthful in what they told me and many of my colleagues. But you are correct, this happens all the time and I should not have been suprized by it, but it has also taught me never to trust them again.

Date: Jan 17, 2006

I'm confused by your perspective, grad student. You give the impression that you think professors should have stayed in miserable situations for your sake. I don't know the people in history who left, but I know some of the ones in English, and it was a wrenching decision for most of them. I don't think you realize the implications of giving up tenure, time towards tenure, departmental seniority, retirement benefits (this is especially true for older faculty) as well as the spouses giving up jobs, homes, childrens' schools, and a host of other considerations. These were not decisions that were made easily. You seem personally offended because people thought they could stay and then realized that they could not.

Also, you need to consider that jobs in academia are hard to come by in the humanities. If someone gets an opportunity, they don't have the luxury of saying "please wait until I help Student X finish her dissertation" -- these jobs do not grow on trees, as you will learn before long.

It sounds to me as if you're angry with one or more specific people. I hope you can reconcile yourself to the reality of your situation, forgo your anger and move forward with your life and work. That's what we all have to do, in many different sorts of situations.

Date: Jan 17, 2006

I guess what confuses me, History Grad Student, is that you're angry about the very thing I realized almost immediately was passive-aggressive. I went right back on the board and withdrew the comment. Perhaps you didn't see the retraction? I said, "Oh dear, my parenthetical comment above sounds passive-aggressive, and probably was. Please delete it, if only mentally. Talk about maximum stress! JL" So, yeah, I don't blame you for being upset—it was a stupid thing to say. But I had acknowledged that. In addition, I've continued on here at USM and am still actively and possibly dangerously vocal against the excesses of the administration. And, if I might add, I've taken on the task of directing graduate studies in my own department, for the lack of anyone better to do the job. You've explained that your anger is fueled by those who have left, so I'm wondering why I'm now the target. I would think we were on the same side.

I wish you the best in your studies, and I wish you a good job at the end of them, and I don't bear you any ill will in return.

Jameela Lares

Date: Jan 17, 2006

Being a faculty member, in any discipline, requires a great deal of maturity and ability to understand/relate to various viewpoints. I am very concerned that grad student displays none of this, and perhaps should not aspire to a faculty position anywhere.

Date: Jan 17, 2006

astonished wrote:

Being a faculty member, in any discipline, requires a great deal of maturity and ability to understand/relate to various viewpoints. I am very concerned that grad student displays none of this, and perhaps should not aspire to a faculty position anywhere.

We've all had bad days and said intemperate things -- or said things that might have been true but were perhaps intemperately put. Some of us (mea culpa!) have even done that on this board.

My guess is that grad student is probably having one of these moments and is quite likely normally as rational and mature as most of us like to think we are. I agree with your first sentence but think maybe adjectives and "none" and "should not aspire . . . anywhere . . ." may be a little harsh considering that this board has sometimes in the past needed to be a place for people to reveal the kind of anger they may not be able to reveal elsewhere. Grad student seems to be dedicated to trying to hold it together -- but like any of us would be in that position, is probably not only angry but frightened . . . . it is no small thing to watch a department dissolve around you . . .

Date: Jan 17, 2006

Thank you Stephen, I was quite wrong in the tone of my post. My apologies grad student. Bad hair day. However, it is important that one react with a little more maturity and thought. A recent quote from a world leader says it well - "It looks different from here than it does from there."

Date: Jan 17, 2006

I think you took my tone out of context. I meant it when I said back off of Dr. Lares; however I expressed my concern inappropriately. I intended to suggest that criticizing professors in a non-constructive manner leads others to take you less seriously. I do understand your frustration, but remember, we must sometimes show the strength of maturity in times of adversity such as these. Good luck with your graduate career.

Date: Jan 17, 2006

a history grad student wrote:

if I had left, I would lose nearly all of the classes I had taken and would have to start all over again, delaying the start of my real life by at least a year

Ah Ha, young man. I think I see the problem here. You need to realize that education is not learning to live. it is living.

Date: Jan 17, 2006

It's impressive to see how many people in recent postings on this thread have expressed second thoughts, apologies, and real courtesy. Anyone who claims (as often happens) that people who post on this board are inflexible and unwilling to rethink positions needs to take a look at the last ten or so postings here. I've enjoyed reading the thoughtful ways in which people have responded to one another.