Faculty Reporting Back - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 10, 2006

RE: Faculty Reporting Back

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Sophomoric Research Design wrote:

H.D. Morgan wrote:
You have asserted that " professor's (sp) habits in this regard are not significantly different from the general population". Please provide data. "I'll be waiting around.."
I made a prediction, H.D., not an assertion. Get your eyes off of that golfball and read it again: My prediction was, "I think you'll find that professor's habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral population." We're waiting for you to research the matter.

Y'all are demeaning the great game of golf. You are hereby penalized two strokes. Take them any way it makes you feel good.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

The USGA wrote:

Sophomoric Research Design wrote: H.D. Morgan wrote: You have asserted that " professor's (sp) habits in this regard are not significantly different from the general population". Please provide data. "I'll be waiting around.." I made a prediction, H.D., not an assertion. Get your eyes off of that golfball and read it again: My prediction was, "I think you'll find that professor's habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral population." We're waiting for you to research the matter. Y'all are demeaning the great game of golf. You are hereby penalized two strokes. Take them any way it makes you feel good.

As long as there isn't a press person around to witness me pitching my drop too far away . . .

Date: Jan 10, 2006

You, sir, are the one who is incapable of discussing the issue at hand. Here again, you have degenerated into name-calling, profanity, and unfounded generalizations.

You want info about me? I am a terminal degree-holding faculty member at USM. I look around and see exactly the abuses I have outlined being perpetrated by faculty from all colleges. In your posts I see the need to be the authority on almost everything you ever discuss, sometimes without regard for the truth, convention, good taste, or even the simple courtesy of reading and then thinking about a post before firing off an off-the-cuff response and then waiting for your cheering section to pile on and make you right.

I've got no problems with those who work with their heads any more than I have a problem with those who work with their hands. Perhaps you're the one projecting his hatred of authority on some anonymous poster who suggests that our profession might need to take a lesson in humility.

Of course, your response once again illustrates what you get when you challenge an academic on a matter he or she doesn't have full grasp of -- you get a condescending response.

Unfortunately, all this thread has done is to further the sentiment pronounced by Robert Shaw's character in Jaws: "Well it proves one thing Mr. Hooper. It proves that you ... don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong."

Your selective reading of posts erodes your credibility to those who actually practice critical thinking.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Bobby Jones wrote:

I wonder if faculty members at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, and Auburn have to worry about looking too prosperous to the locals, or is this unique to south Mississippi?

Perhaps the USM faculty does look a bit too prosperous to the locals. Maybe we should walk around town barefooted, dressed in sack cloth and ashes, and carrying a monkey on our back and a tin cup in our hand. But even then I'll bet some of the locals would view us as prosperous and unworthy.

Let's face it, folks. USM does not have the academic environment that most academic scholars find attractive. Hattiersburg is neither a mecca of culture or a magnet for scholars. So why did most of us come here? It was because of geography, convenience, a relatively low cost of living, a relatively crime-free environment compared to other towns its size, and the friendliness of the community. It was a pleasant place to live and to work. Salaries were very low, but many of us were willing to sacrifice the almighty dollar for quality of life. When I first moved to Hattiesburg, I felt welcomed, I felt good about the university and about myself. But now the worm has turned. And so has my stomach.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

You, sir, are the one who is incapable of discussing the issue at hand. Here again, you have degenerated into name-calling, profanity, and unfounded generalizations. You want info about me? I am a terminal degree-holding faculty member at USM. I look around and see exactly the abuses I have outlined being perpetrated by faculty from all colleges. In your posts I see the need to be the authority on almost everything you ever discuss, sometimes without regard for the truth, convention, good taste, or even the simple courtesy of reading and then thinking about a post before firing off an off-the-cuff response and then waiting for your cheering section to pile on and make you right. I've got no problems with those who work with their heads any more than I have a problem with those who work with their hands. Perhaps you're the one projecting his hatred of authority on some anonymous poster who suggests that our profession might need to take a lesson in humility. Of course, your response once again illustrates what you get when you challenge an academic on a matter he or she doesn't have full grasp of -- you get a condescending response. Unfortunately, all this thread has done is to further the sentiment pronounced by Robert Shaw's character in Jaws: "Well it proves one thing Mr. Hooper. It proves that you ... don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong." Your selective reading of posts erodes your credibility to those who actually practice critical thinking.

Admittedly, I may have made an egregious mistake in lumping your comments in with those of HD Morgan and a couple of others -- for that I apologize.

If you have been following the Board for a while you know that it often feels as though there are one or two writers who simply shift noms in order to conveniently make it seem as though there are many people weighing in on a subject. So I suppose I tend, these days, to get more impatient than I should . . . and I'll apologize for that too. Frankly, I haven't been on the Board that much these days. And that is at least partly because there are simply too many threads being opened that are intended to do nothing more than create argument and dissension . . . and that simply isn't productive. There is a deliberately provocative quality to some of these posters that is destructive . . . .

Having said that, I'm not are what it is that we disagree about, if the issue truly is that there are faculty members who live and act as you have indicated. I think I've conceded that such folks might well exist. Clearly I believe those members to be in the minority - that is my experience as I move around campus. I can't argue that they might harm the image of the larger class of academics. I'm also not sure what it is that you expect us to do about them.

What I do know is that the atmosphere has been poisoned by intimations from day one of this administration that faculty as a class were not working hard enough and needed to be made "more accountable" -- with little evidence that faculty indolence or lack of accountability is a significant enough problem to warrent so much energy being put into fixing it. The administration has hinted, quite successfully, that the faculty are somehow "privileged" and has successfully played on the perception of many in the community that the kind of working lives most faculty members live (flex time, more autonomous working conditions, etc.) is somehow "privilged." They don't speak so well of the privilge of working late hours, or working many hours beyond the normal working time not because the "boss" tells them they need to work, but because they know that they need to put that time in in order to produce good research, a good class, or the fair grading of student work.

Maybe I'm naive and I'm surrounded by colleagues who just don't fit the descriptions I hear in this thread.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Goodness gracious great walls of ire!

I started this thread a while ago, and it's certainly become contentious. I too don't understand what in the world playing golf has to do with university faculty responsibility (Van Hooks was the place to be until it was taken away). Golf is a leisure activity, and anyone who finds this boring game fascinating has a right to hack right away at it! Somehow, it has to be a healthy way to relieve stress, and we all know that everyone should find ways to live a full and happy life. Is the argument that university faculty should not allow exercise into their lives??

If I recall, past posters have taken swings at golfers who are consistently out on the links most afternoons during the week. Maybe those academic golfers have a.m. and evening classes - but who cares. If SFT gets his kicks hanging out in a treestand somewhere between Petal and Laurel, who is to say one leisure sport is worse than another.

BTW, if any of the public saw me on the ski slopes in Vail over the Christmas break - I saved for it in order to pay for it. I also did academic work over the holidays, but as an earlier poster pointed out, we are taxpayers too. I don't begrudge any state employee (including public school teachers) any hour deviating from seems to be the perceived a day's pay for 24 hour's work. Hey, has the public deemed how many hours we are allowed to sleep???

What I will concede is that those posting who are taking the opposite viewpoint of mine have also emphasized that they are not taking aim at all faculty. Perhaps they exaggerate a bit to make a point about a few.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

huff, huff, huff

I just got back from walking around the track with a friend who is retired from thirty years of working with the public and now works somewhere else in town with the public. I said, "how many USM professors do you know by sight?"
He said, "Oh, three or four, mostly from here."
"What would you think if you saw {name} in the store at two oclock on a Wednesday afternoon?"
"Think? Why would I think anything?"

So I told him about this thread and he laughed and laughed, and said, "what a bunch of cr@p!" And this, friends, is an Eagle Club member.

Not offered as anything but anecdotal. Not to be considered scientific or definitive in any way.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog:

You need to bear in mind that the fractious situation at USM is in no small part a local manifestation of the continuing culture war in this country. That many regular working people harbor mistrust and animosity toward intellectuals is hardly unique to Mississippi or to the U.S. Although ostensibly indicating only some of our number, you in fact are implying that all of us should adapt certain aspects of our behavior in order to minimize offense to the local populace--observing "good form," you call it. Suggesting that someone not drive the car he wants nor live in a house she likes sounds more like oppression to me.

The whole golf issue has been addressed ad nauseum on this thread and others. Just let me add my voice to several others above that, in many decades in the academic world, I don't recall the subject of golf coming up, and don't know that I have ever met a colleague who plays golf. Adding up the experience of the other posters above, this surely amounts to several hundred profs we have known who do not play golf. However, that is completely irrelevant--those who do play should absolutely play when it fits their schedule.

You say that professors have used the press to complain about being underpaid. Actually, Thames has stressed the fact that USM salaries are woefully below the SE average. Now don't think for a minute that he is concerned for the welfare of his faculty. He is under heat to explain why so many have fled and is trying to make it appear that it's all about money. Then you imply that we might improve our image with the taxpayers if we feigned a little modesty.

I think you've got it wrong, Old Dog. What we need are true leaders who will tirelessly advocate for higher education and make clear to the electorate that they get what they pay for. Ordinary people seem to have accepted that doctors make a lot of money. They probably would understand that, if the doctors can't make good money, they will probably go away and leave them with inferior health care. The IHL, our state legislators, and our university administrators are charged with this very repsonsibility. If they were doing their jobs, instead of covertly and overtly trashing faculty, it would be clear to the public not only what they need to pay but what working conditions (among many other things, shared governance) the faculty require. As it is, the exodus will surely continue, and Mississippi will get what it paid for and asked for. Prof. X will be long gone, ensconced in a better-paying job, driving an Alfa Romeo, living in a nice house, and, yes, playing golf (or jai alai, or Scrabble, or Tiddly Winks).

Asking a person to compromise a perfectly legal lifestyle smacks dangerously of a kind of coercion which could lead to nastier stuff--a slippery slope.

Finally, if this academic life looks so cushy, why exactly aren't students beating the doors down to get Ph.D.s and move up in the world? Some are, of course, but it isn't exactly a stampede. Maybe they know the money isn't really all that great, and, finally, the work itself is by no means everybody's cup of tea.

No, Old Dog, we don't need to modify our behavior--we need leaders who know how to manage academics and simultaneously promote the importance of higher ed, in other words, walk and chew gum. We seem to be fresh out of those. (And the the ones we have are lavishly paid!)

Date: Jan 10, 2006

I revive the following post from "old and tired" for the express purpose of pointing out that on page 1 of this thread the discussion centered around a "few" and how even a "few" could poison the well for the "many." I do not recall contradicting this basis in any subsequent post.

I think what's required here (at USM) is a little senior leadership in understanding HOW we may affect change in public perceptions. ONE way is to subordinate our personal wants to the needs of our profession.

Around or about 1980, I knew a lawyer who operated in a medium-sized Southern town. This man owned about 3 suits, lived in a small house downtown, and drove a 1965 Chevy...oxidized paint and all. He wore no jewelry, almost never ate at a restaurant, and he and his wife took a short vacation each year to the Florida coast to visit his sister and her family. He was a good person, a good lawyer, and the type of person who spent 60+ hours each week at his job.

I asked him one day why he didn't buy a new car or some new suits or take a vacation to Europe. I basically questioned every step he made as a lawyer. His reply was that the members of the community didn't all drive new cars, couldn't afford new suits, and didn't have the luxury of expensive things like jewelry or lavish vacations. In short, he said that he did what he did (or, more appropriately, didn't do what he didn't do) in an effort to be accessible to more people. He was in the business of helping people, and people don't want to associate with a lawyer whose primary concern is money.

As educators, we're in the business of helping people, but it creates barriers to learning when student cannot identify with professor. When student lives in a ghetto and professor drives a BMW, there is a disconnect in communication. If you're wearing Armani, there's no amount of sleeve-rolling that will make you look like a common man.

The beauty of an educator is in the magic of the knowledge that we can impart to those who desire it. How many students see us as unapproachable? How many students put on an immediate defense mechanism in advance of an expected condescending remark?

Wouldn't we be better served to conduct ourselves always in a manner that tells our neighbors "(s)he's one of us" rather than "(s)he's one of them?" which is not to say that we should espouse all of the ideals our neighbors support. Rather, our neighbors seem sto have much less issue with our beliefs when we have a heartfelt story to tell--face to face--rather than a snide remark or a "down the nose" look.

How many of us hold grudges against individuals who have treated us poorly in the past? Almost every academic I know has a story about the time that Dr. X made me feel like an idiot and for no good reason.

In our current environment, I simply feel it would be better to constrict our standards (both behavioral and academic) for the good of our profession in Hattiesburg. We're all that we've got.

old and tired wrote:

LVN and Stephen,
I'll happily accept the semantic change. I've just been around too long and have become wary of the sins of the few bringing woe on the many. Just a "few" profs using the classroom as a pulpit for pet "whatevers"; just a "few" abusing travel funds; just a "few" that don't meet their classes; just a "few" who cannot have a modicum of respect for students; just a "few" who are in a hot field and can't bother to not flaunt it. Add the "just a fews" to the money-crazed administrators who view teaching and scholarship as activities for suckers and you end up on the wrong side of what we all hope is not a slippery slope.
If the public turns on universities because of the sins of the managers and the "few", the real losers won't be us. There are many more students than us.
My apologies for the rant. I'll leave now.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

I revive the following post from "old and tired" for the express purpose of pointing out that on page 1 of this thread the discussion centered around a "few" and how even a "few" could poison the well for the "many." I do not recall contradicting this basis in any subsequent post.

I think what's required here (at USM) is a little senior leadership in understanding HOW we may affect change in public perceptions. ONE way is to subordinate our personal wants to the needs of our profession.

Around or about 1980, I knew a lawyer who operated in a medium-sized Southern town. This man owned about 3 suits, lived in a small house downtown, and drove a 1965 Chevy...oxidized paint and all. He wore no jewelry, almost never ate at a restaurant, and he and his wife took a short vacation each year to the Florida coast to visit his sister and her family. He was a good person, a good lawyer, and the type of person who spent 60+ hours each week at his job.

I asked him one day why he didn't buy a new car or some new suits or take a vacation to Europe. I basically questioned every step he made as a lawyer. His reply was that the members of the community didn't all drive new cars, couldn't afford new suits, and didn't have the luxury of expensive things like jewelry or lavish vacations. In short, he said that he did what he did (or, more appropriately, didn't do what he didn't do) in an effort to be accessible to more people. He was in the business of helping people, and people don't want to associate with a lawyer whose primary concern is money.

As educators, we're in the business of helping people, but it creates barriers to learning when student cannot identify with professor. When student lives in a ghetto and professor drives a BMW, there is a disconnect in communication. If you're wearing Armani, there's no amount of sleeve-rolling that will make you look like a common man.

The beauty of an educator is in the magic of the knowledge that we can impart to those who desire it. How many students see us as unapproachable? How many students put on an immediate defense mechanism in advance of an expected condescending remark?

Wouldn't we be better served to conduct ourselves always in a manner that tells our neighbors "(s)he's one of us" rather than "(s)he's one of them?" which is not to say that we should espouse all of the ideals our neighbors support. Rather, our neighbors seem sto have much less issue with our beliefs when we have a heartfelt story to tell--face to face--rather than a snide remark or a "down the nose" look.

How many of us hold grudges against individuals who have treated us poorly in the past? Almost every academic I know has a story about the time that Dr. X made me feel like an idiot and for no good reason.

In our current environment, I simply feel it would be better to constrict our standards (both behavioral and academic) for the good of our profession in Hattiesburg. We're all that we've got.

old and tired wrote:
LVN and Stephen,
I'll happily accept the semantic change. I've just been around too long and have become wary of the sins of the few bringing woe on the many. Just a "few" profs using the classroom as a pulpit for pet "whatevers"; just a "few" abusing travel funds; just a "few" that don't meet their classes; just a "few" who cannot have a modicum of respect for students; just a "few" who are in a hot field and can't bother to not flaunt it. Add the "just a fews" to the money-crazed administrators who view teaching and scholarship as activities for suckers and you end up on the wrong side of what we all hope is not a slippery slope.
If the public turns on universities because of the sins of the managers and the "few", the real losers won't be us. There are many more students than us.
My apologies for the rant. I'll leave now.

Sob, sob, sob.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Voter,

It's funny that you make the point about the number of students who want to pursue Ph.D.s in order to get a cushy lifestyle. I have been at 3 institutions (retired from a non-Mississippi SEC school before coming to USM), and the number of USM students who inquire about Ph.D.s is abnormally high, even before I adjust for average quality of student.

What does that tell me? Either USM has a higher percentage of truly gifted students than my previous institution OR students at USM view the professorate as a way to have a nice comfortable lifestyle. Again, just anecdotal.

As for what we need to do or not do, your tone suggests that "Nobody better tell me what to do. It's someone else's fault." I'm not proposing a law that faculty can't drive a Porche. I'm advocating a measured, deliberate decision regarding lifestyle that takes into account irrational beliefs of our constituency.

Or we could all start putting our $$ into cars, clothes, etc., and firmly stick our middle fingers in the general direction of everyone who's not in our corner.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

sober wrote:

\

Sob, sob, sob.

Now there's a valuable comment.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Mitch wrote:

Apology. HD Morgan is the bad, bad boy (or girl), not Oldtimer.

I just got back from my evening exercise (jogging, NOT golf!), and I thank Mitch for the apology, but no offense was taken here. I've worked with John R., Joe O., Dave B., and many others who post here on the board, and I occasionally try to post a little "institutional memory" here, because some of us can remember the "pre-Shelby" days at USM. It's disturbing to see how much of the "critical mass" of older faculty are gone, but I always try to keep hope that the "newer faculty" can survive the current excesses, and bring the institution back closer to the days when we were a "promising, competitive, upwardly-mobile" university, and not a service-oriented "economic development" tool.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog:

For what it's worth, my own personal approach to students and to the community is almost exactly in line with what you write--and I believe that is also true for the great majority of my colleagues. No one observing my lifestyle would have a clue as to my net worth. However, I do it that way because it suits my style and wishes. If other colleagues want to bring a little flair to the professoriate (note the "i" in that word, by the way), I think students and others would find it refreshing and entertaining, if they handle it in the right way.

Since I basically do what you recommend, I hope you will retract the "blame others" remark. However, you surely would not contend that SFT's reign has been anything short of catastrophic. Since you seem to have exhausted your point promoting faculty faux-modesty, how about turning your keen sense of criticism on the administration?

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Voter wrote:

Old Dog:

For what it's worth, my own personal approach to students and to the community is almost exactly in line with what you write--and I believe that is also true for the great majority of my colleagues. No one observing my lifestyle would have a clue as to my net worth. However, I do it that way because it suits my style and wishes. If other colleagues want to bring a little flair to the professoriate (note the "i" in that word, by the way), I think students and others would find it refreshing and entertaining, if they handle it in the right way.

Since I basically do what you recommend, I hope you will retract the "blame others" remark. However, you surely would not contend that SFT's reign has been anything short of catastrophic. Since you seem to have exhausted your point promoting faculty faux-modesty, how about turning your keen sense of criticism on the administration?

Turn my keen sense of criticism on the administration? Are you Dr. X who tried to make me feel like an idiot in World Civ? If you want fair criticism of the administration, just read all the posts on this board, re-read the Hattiesburg American for the past 3 years, and then think about it for a year or two. I'm sure your conclusions will jive with mine.

As for "professorate" v. "professoriate," my usage was correct. When I said "...students at USM view the professorate as a way to have a nice comfortable lifestyle," I was referring to the idea that students view the "...rank, office, or term of office of a professor" as an easy job. The definitional quote is from Dictionary.com.

Have a nice day.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

Around or about 1980, I knew a lawyer who operated in a medium-sized Southern town. This man owned about 3 suits, lived in a small house downtown, and drove a 1965 Chevy...oxidized paint and all. He wore no jewelry, almost never ate at a restaurant, and he and his wife took a short vacation each year to the Florida coast to visit his sister and her family.

Old Dog, that sounds just like me in 1980. Except I was teaching at a university and was not a lawyer; I had only one suit (a blue one in case I needed it for a funeral), drove an old Plymouth Station Wagon, and never took a vacation.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Man this has been an interesting thread. Just two cents here, neither of which are well reasoned. I worked long and hard for years in college, sinking deeper into debt, while my compatriots were off earning money. I spent some time after college "workin' for a livin'" while looking for a real academic job (not fun having the local wags calling you "doctor" as you are unloading a truck). All of this put me well behind the moola curve, and I remain stuck behind on that curve having landed on my feet at jolly old USM. Do I earn lots of money -- compared to somebody working at McDonalds sure but not compared to many of my buddies who graduated in four years I am here to tell you. Also I drive a car that is over a decade old. So I worked hard and sacrificed to get to the position that I am in and to get alphabet soup after my name. I am proud of that. I will wear my title with pride and soak up all of the benefits available in the job that I worked so hard to reach. If others want this job -- well they can always go back and put in over a decade of work in school under the poverty line. They chose not to do that, and I do not begrudge them their choice. They should not begrudge me mine.

On another note I took up golf while in highschool (sneaking on to courses was the only way to fly back then). I still enjoy the game and hack my way around the odd course or two from time to time. So what?????

Date: Jan 11, 2006

This is becoming boring everyone...blah, blah, blah...Mississippi and Hattiesburg, in particular, has historically been a "we don't need no education" type culture. This so called academic intelligentsia can never win, whether we beg for money at Hardy/49 in our tattered robes or cruise Hardy in our fancy, smancy new Beemer with the top down in tube tops and Don Ho print shirts throwing coupons out for keggers in our offices after class. Anyway, must be all the rich MALE professors out there as I NOTE who are playing golf, keeping their pampered wives with maids and tennis lessons...and most importantly, I can't decide how I feel about walking around town "during working hours", since I don't think anyone has every recognized me, they wouldn't under any other circumstances. I sure wish I had to use some kind of disguise like some of our obviously WELL-KNOWN faculty do. Who am I kidding, I wouldn't anyway, like the vast majority of the faculty, I DO THE WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE. I would not even dignify WHEN I work, WHERE I work, etc. to "old and tired" anymore than I would ask my M.D. or attorney the same.

The community of Hattiesburg is different than Oxford and Starksville, for that matter, than Cleveland and Columbus. They have a tradition of respecting their faculty. Oh and one other thing--THEY DON'T have Shelby Thames and never would have hired him against the will of the faculty, much less kept someone of his character who was hellbent on demoralizing the faculty and staff with such meanspiritedness. The Hattiesburg community simply doesn't respect education, that goes all the way up the line so the faculty were not completely taken by surprise when we were NOT supported when Gary and Frank were treated with such little regard. We are not valued as professionals, whether we wear our bunny slippers to the mailbox or win the Nobel. Maybe we are too young, it is a reflection of the community we serve which is primarily high school educated.

Move on to another topic or get over your jealousy and issues with academics. We really have heard all these tired old ravings. Get over it... .So if you think we are going to take what you say and "work on our public image", quoting John Lennon, "You don't need anybody to tell you who you are or what you are." We are doing just fine without any help from you. We know who we are and what we do. I have always thought just a bit of jealousy existed "out there" in the non-academic community..yes, we have alphabets after our names and we earned each letter, while everyone else was out working.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

old dog wrote:

Unfortunately, stephen judd, perception is reality. People cannot see your motives, just your actions. The fact remains that continuing along this line of behavior does nothing to help the professorate regain respect.

Further, those who do not make their living on the misery or forced taxation of others have fewer fingers pointed at them in the first place.

Actually, this is the quote I was referring to. Since you had been talking about the behavior of individuals, I assumed that "the professorate" meant the faculty as a whole, in which case "professoriate," in my opinion, would have been the preferred form. I might also cavil about the ability of a position to "regain respect" (whereas people clearly can)--but I'll pass on that one.

And if I glean through the snottiness of your last post that you have added your voice to the chorus of criticism of the Thames regime, then thanks. I look forward to seeing more of it.

And you, too, have a nice day!

Date: Jan 11, 2006

Frau Doktor wrote:

Mississippi and Hattiesburg, in particular, has historically been a "we don't need no education" type culture.

Historically, my good doctor, quite the opposite is true. Historically, few outside of Forrest, Lamar, and Jones counties chose to get their higher education in the Hub City. You may be right about Hattiesburg. I wouldn't know about that. But I know for sure that historically, Mississippians have placed a high value on higher education.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

Sophomoric Research Design wrote:

H.D. Morgan wrote:
You have asserted that " professor's (sp) habits in this regard are not significantly different from the general population". Please provide data. "I'll be waiting around.."
I made a prediction, H.D., not an assertion. Get your eyes off of that golfball and read it again: My prediction was, "I think you'll find that professor's habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral population." We're waiting for you to research the matter.

"I think you'll find professor's (sp) habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral(sp) population" is a statement on your part that requires data no more or no less than my statement. If you believe your statement and you believe that data is required for every post on this board -which I don't- then show me the numbers.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

H.D.Morgan wrote:

If you believe your statement and you believe that data is required for every post on this board -which I don't- then show me the numbers.

Many assertions made on this board have been challenged. Many posters have then presented data in support of their assertion. Others have failed to do so. Your assertion is the only one I am questioning. I ask again: Aside from anecdotal evidence, how do you know that the golf habits of university professors are significantly different from the golf habits of others? If you can't provide this information, ignore my question, drop the topic, and don't feel bad about yourself. This is not an imporant issue.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

Sophomoric Research Design wrote:

H.D.Morgan wrote: If you believe your statement and you believe that data is required for every post on this board -which I don't- then show me the numbers. Many assertions made on this board have been challenged. Many posters have then presented data in support of their assertion. Others have failed to do so. Your assertion is the only one I am questioning. I ask again: Aside from anecdotal evidence, how do you know that the golf habits of university professors are significantly different from the golf habits of others? If you can't provide this information, ignore my question, drop the topic, and don't feel bad about yourself. This is not an imporant issue.

S.R. you're probably right. Profs hit the links about the same as lawyers,doctors,etc. In all due respect,you remind me alot of Al Gore. When you get your data be sure to put it in a lock box. Are you really a college professor? Your spelling and grammar are a little slack,to put it kindly.Do you require your students when they are presenting their "data" to spell and write correctly? When I was in college,if you made a spelling or grammatical error the answer was wrong regardless of content.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

N. Webster wrote:

In all due respect,you remind me alot of Al Gore.

I remind you of Al Gore? You remind me of a member the Odd Couple. The one who was a neatnik. I must be the sloppy one because I don't see misspelled words in my post:

"Many assertions made on this board have been challenged. Many posters have then presented data in support of their assertion. Others have failed to do so. Your assertion is the only one I am questioning. I ask again: Aside from anecdotal evidence, how do you know that the golf habits of university professors are significantly different from the golf habits of others? If you can't provide this information, ignore my question, drop the topic, and don't feel bad about yourself. This is not an imporant issue."

N. Webster, I think you might be H.D. Morgan incognito.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

Yep. I see I misspelled the word "important." Mama told me I was not cut out to be a teacher.

Date: Jan 11, 2006

N. Webster wrote:

Do you require your students when they are presenting their "data" to spell and write correctly? When I was in college,if you made a spelling or grammatical error the answer was wrong regardless of content.

Mr. Webster: My analysis of S.D.'s paragraph suggests that his spelling is at least as good as that of the typical golfer. If one misspelled word bothers you . . . Wow! You should see some the term USM term papers I'v read.

Date: Jan 12, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

floppy ears, you're exactly the kind of person who causes a lot of these problems. you are too smart to have an honest discussion, so you use well-placed ellipses to obscure the true meaning my words convey. Let me be plain: if a professor's wife runs around with the Oak Grove doctors' wives circuit, puts her kids in daycare, doesn't work, has a maid, eats out all the time, and then he complains about being underpaid, then he has made some poor choices. These choices reflect poorly on all who work at USM. little old lady, nothing against golf. i play golf regularly. IF i ever play golf on a weekday, i make sure that i am inconspicuous about it, and i try to play at a course outside the hattiesburg city limits. no, this about those faculty members who treat other citizens like suckers while taking their tax money as a reward.

This has been a fascinating discussion. I am particularly interested in how one plays golf "inconspicuosly." After due deliberation I have these suggestions to offer (as well as potential hazards) to faculty who do not want to offend the general populace by being spotted on a local golf course. First, perhaps one could play only at night (hazard: difficult to see where you or the ball are going - bring plenty of golf balls!). Second, wear camouflage clothing - black for night golfers (see previous hint) or army camouflage green for those golfers who insist on playing during the day. Best days to play: during pouring rainstorms or on days when the weather remains subfreezing (hazard - not much fun). Hint four: after hitting the ball down the fairway (keep it in the short grass as they say on the Golf Channel) make a beeline for the woods and slink stealthily along until you are again near your ball (hazard - bring a machete and check for ticks after the round). Sprint to the ball, skip the practice stroke, take a hurried swing and immediately sprint for the woods again (hazard - do not attempt this unless your cardiovascular fitness is at a high level). I welcome other valuable suggestions regarding the art of Inconspicuous Golf and suggest that when fully developed we could offer an article to Golf Digest, something like "Inconspicuous Golf - Hattiesburg Style!" See you on the links (or maybe not if you follow these suggestions).

Dave Beckett

Date: Jan 12, 2006

Sorry for the typo (or misspelling if you wish to be harsh) of the word inconspicuously the first time I used it in the previous post. I really do know how to spell it, the typing of it is another matter (too many vowels in the word too close together on the keyboard). While I am in an apologetic mood I also wish to apologize to anyone and everyone in Hattiesburg for playing golf much too conspicuously all these years. Mea culpa!

Dave Beckett

Date: Jan 12, 2006

You should be especially cautious, Professor Beckett. You're one of the ones my walking friend knows by sight. Now, back to work!