Faculty Reporting Back - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 10, 2006

RE: Faculty Reporting Back

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog - I don't know where you get your info, but in my college, I don't know a single faculty member who has the life style you describe. Not one person in my department plays golf, and they can be found in their offices at 6 in the morning as well as 10 at night. Some of us work in our home offices as we have superior computer support there (and wear our jammies while there), but give students 24/7 access to us via email or phone. The only ones who are able to support the type of life you describe are those who are retired from another, better paid, career or who have family money. Even on the highest of reported faculty salaries no one can afford expensive homes and expensive cars and household help. Do the math. The scenario you describe sounds more like an urban myth.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

astonished wrote:

Old Dog - I don't know where you get your info, but in my college, I don't know a single faculty member who has the life style you describe. Not one person in my department plays golf, and they can be found in their offices at 6 in the morning as well as 10 at night. Some of us work in our home offices as we have superior computer support there (and wear our jammies while there), but give students 24/7 access to us via email or phone. The only ones who are able to support the type of life you describe are those who are retired from another, better paid, career or who have family money. Even on the highest of reported faculty salaries no one can afford expensive homes and expensive cars and household help. Do the math. The scenario you describe sounds more like an urban myth.

If you believe this, then you obviously are disconnected from reality.

However, let me take your false assertion to a conclusion: since faculty members are not overpaid, it's OK for them to take extra vacation when they feel like it? When school's not in session, it's OK not to go to work?

Date: Jan 10, 2006

H. D. Morgan wrote:

Perhaps the most striking feature of the college professor lifestyle is their obsession with the game of golf. I know several workers at local courses and they tell me that the links are packed with college faculty,particularly during the week. Acording to them,the lifeblood of weekday golf is not retirees but rather professors.

I have been a professor for 15 years. I do not play golf. I cannot remember, in that entire time, knowing a single colleague who played golf. Now administrators, playing golf with wealthy alums to try and raise funds for the school, yes . . . .but all of the professors in my area are far too busy teaching, writing, and researching (yes, on nights, weekends and during vacations) to have hobbies outside their profession.

I know I shouldn't bother responding to this, but just for the record on my Christmas "vacation" I:

Finished two articles and sent them out to journals
Began revising a third article to send out
Edited two book reviews and solicited two more reviewers
Revised a paper I'm giving in February
Drafted a proposal for a paper I hope to give next fall (and did some research to support this)
Helped plan a conference for my regional academic society (including writing a zillion e-mails, sending out student submissions for best paper award to the judging committee, getting six people to chair sessions, etc.)
Planned a new course that I've never taught before
Read and made comments on a student's paper (that he wrote for another prof. but wanted my opinion on)
Made library reserve lists of hundreds of items for my courses
Read a new book in my field
Read several articles and book chapters in my field

Also visited two sets of relatives. As you can see, I don't have any time for golf.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Sheesh. Thanks foot soldier.

How many times have we gone around and around on this individual's golf-resentment issues? I lose count.

Of course the solution is obvious: all you professors need to pick a different sport. It's ok to play tennis, swim, jog, or shoot pool. Just be sure you wait until the dead of night, seeing as how you're all instantly recognizable all over town. Don't want any of those cross looks!

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

floppy ears, you're exactly the kind of person who causes a lot of these problems. you are too smart to have an honest discussion, so you use well-placed ellipses to obscure the true meaning my words convey. Let me be plain: if a professor's wife runs around with the Oak Grove doctors' wives circuit, puts her kids in daycare, doesn't work, has a maid, eats out all the time, and then he complains about being underpaid, then he has made some poor choices. These choices reflect poorly on all who work at USM. little old lady, nothing against golf. i play golf regularly. IF i ever play golf on a weekday, i make sure that i am inconspicuous about it, and i try to play at a course outside the hattiesburg city limits. no, this about those faculty members who treat other citizens like suckers while taking their tax money as a reward.

This is like extrapolating from the few number of deserters in the military that all military people are cowards. Or that those who do their duty should somehow be punished because of the few who desert. If you can't even get people who profess to be religious to live up to a uniform ideal of behavior, why do you demand that all "professors" somehow must be judged by the behavior of the few? This is incredibly selective observation -- but then it is clear from your post that your object isn't to draw attention to the few, but to use those few to put blame on the many whom you seem to resent.

My father, and my father's father, and my were all poor dirt farmers who worked someone else's land well before my grandfather finally made enough of a stake to buy his own. Their dream for me and my generational cousins was that we should escape the life that they led. I think most of us who come from that kind of background are extremely concious of where we come from, and maybe even feel a bit guilty that our lives are so privileged compared to theirs -- thus, in my own case, the compulsion to work long hours and work well has as much to do with my own want to prove my own worth in their eyes, where ever they are. I suspect I'm not alone.

One more point: you can't have a nation without a way to finance it. We may not have the best or most equitable tax system, but taxes are necessary to provide for the common good. Mississipians may resent paying taxes -- but they sure receive a lot of tax money from outside this state (as one of the highest per capita recipients of federal tax dollars, much of which goes to support the incredible poverty in which this state finds itself). I'd venture to say that if taxes did not exist from the federal level, this state would crumble. And I know it isn't because the people in Mississippi are lazy -- just poor and educationally stil trying to catch up. This is a state with few resources that anyone wants. That leaves hiuman resources as the primary resource this state can trade -- and those resources are undereducated, underskilled, skilled in the wrong areas.

Your identification of faculty members is way off -- based on limited observation of a few whose circumstances I suspect you know little about. But that's OK -- why bother looking at the big picture when you can smear a whole class of people with the arrogance of believing that your observations are somehow applicable to everyone?

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Many of us do a substantial amount of work at home. Why? Because the computers in our office are so old that they slow us down--or in the case of the art/theater/music faculty there are no computers. Because the temperature is either ragingly hot in the winter or chillingly cold in the summer. Because the facilities have not been kept in good condition so the air quality is bad and the surroundings are just plain ugly. Because these working conditions slow us down. Because we don't want any of our university business email monitored. Because we begin working early in the morning or keep working late at night and feel more comfortable at home.

Yes, we do have flex hours. If I'm up until midnight working on an article or grading a paper, I might not go to my office until I have a committee meeting, a class, or an appointment with students. But I am ALWAYS available--by phone or email--and always see students when it is convenient for them.

There is a lot of resentment for the autonomy and the flex time that college professors have, and it manifests itself in the assertion that we don't work.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

Mississipians may resent paying taxes -- but they sure receive a lot of tax money from outside this state (as one of the highest per capita recipients of federal tax dollars, much of which goes to support the incredible poverty in which this state finds itself). I'd venture to say that if taxes did not exist from the federal level, this state would crumble.

I believe MS receives $1.75 for every $1.00 of federal tax it pays.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

This is like extrapolating from the few number of deserters in the military that all military people are cowards. Or that those who do their duty should somehow be punished because of the few who desert. If you can't even get people who profess to be religious to live up to a uniform ideal of behavior, why do you demand that all "professors" somehow must be judged by the behavior of the few? This is incredibly selective observation -- but then it is clear from your post that your object isn't to draw attention to the few, but to use those few to put blame on the many whom you seem to resent.
My father, and my father's father, and my were all poor dirt farmers who worked someone else's land well before my grandfather finally made enough of a stake to buy his own. Their dream for me and my generational cousins was that we should escape the life that they led. I think most of us who come from that kind of background are extremely concious of where we come from, and maybe even feel a bit guilty that our lives are so privileged compared to theirs -- thus, in my own case, the compulsion to work long hours and work well has as much to do with my own want to prove my own worth in their eyes, where ever they are. I suspect I'm not alone.
One more point: you can't have a nation without a way to finance it. We may not have the best or most equitable tax system, but taxes are necessary to provide for the common good. Mississipians may resent paying taxes -- but they sure receive a lot of tax money from outside this state (as one of the highest per capita recipients of federal tax dollars, much of which goes to support the incredible poverty in which this state finds itself). I'd venture to say that if taxes did not exist from the federal level, this state would crumble. And I know it isn't because the people in Mississippi are lazy -- just poor and educationally stil trying to catch up. This is a state with few resources that anyone wants. That leaves hiuman resources as the primary resource this state can trade -- and those resources are undereducated, underskilled, skilled in the wrong areas.
Your identification of faculty members is way off -- based on limited observation of a few whose circumstances I suspect you know little about. But that's OK -- why bother looking at the big picture when you can smear a whole class of people with the arrogance of believing that your observations are somehow applicable to everyone?

When you have no information with which to argue, you tell a story about how bad off your family was, how you do the peoples' work, and then turn the argument on its ear to distract from the real issue, which you obviously know nothing about. You extrapolate from your own experience rather than looking outward, yet you accuse others of doing the same. Physician, heal thyself.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

I have worked at 3 institutions of higher learning and my observation is that most faculty that I am aware of do not play golf, have little interest in golf and are not be willing to invest the time to play golf...They would rather use out of the classroom time to be with family or pursuing their scholastic fields of interest, etc...Another observatin is that agood number are interested in supporting the arts and attending athletic events, however...

Date: Jan 10, 2006

H. D. Morgan wrote:

Perhaps the most striking feature of the college professor lifestyle is their obsession with the game of golf. I know several workers at local courses and they tell me that the links are packed with college faculty,particularly during the week. Acording to them,the lifeblood of weekday golf is not retirees but rather professors.

H.D. - Either put your money where your mouth is or stop mouthing off about golf and college professors. Provide us with the data instead of your uninformed opinion. What is the percentage of accountants who play golf in comparision with the percentage of professors who play golf? Do the same thing with physicians. With bankers. With any group. And then conduct the same comparison with hunting, fishing, swimming, jogging, and poker. You choose the populations. You don't have to use some fancy schmanzy scientific method. I doubt that you're capable of doing it that way. And don't worry about matching relevant variables or the other controls normally used in such research. Do it your own sloppy way. But do it. Do it or SHUT UP.

I think you'll find that professor's habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral population. But's let's see. Let's look at the facts. More more thing: don't bother to do the statistics. Just the numbers, please. These data are probably already online someplace, or in some golfing journal. You seem to have lots of time on your hands. So get to it!

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote, response to Stephen Judd:

When you have no information with which to argue, you tell a story about how bad off your family was, how you do the peoples' work, and then turn the argument on its ear to distract from the real issue, which you obviously know nothing about. You extrapolate from your own experience rather than looking outward, yet you accuse others of doing the same. Physician, heal thyself.

Actually, O.D., Stephen has produced empirical evidence, arguably more than you have, but since you have made character an issue, he can properly refer to character in response.

I'm not sure what you're calling the "real issue," so perhaps you can define it. And you might also tell us why, if you are so concerned about faculty lifestyles, you aren't even more concerned about the lifestyles of administrators? Or perhaps you are?

JL

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Voter wrote:

I believe MS receives $1.75 for every $1.00 of federal tax it pays.

Actually $1.83 received for every $1.00 paid in. 3rd in the country after NM and AL. That will probably change now that Cochran is head of the Appropriations Committee. Now where did the last two that held that job come from - ?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html

This corresponds to about $600/man-woman-child in the state. If this windfall were to go away and we were told to pay for it as a State, Haley would have to expand the budget by 33% to keep us at the current low level of service. We are by the way, 49th in the country in generating local and state taxes per worker, just ahead of Alabama and Tennessee.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Sophomoric Research Design wrote:

H. D. Morgan wrote:
Perhaps the most striking feature of the college professor lifestyle is their obsession with the game of golf. I know several workers at local courses and they tell me that the links are packed with college faculty,particularly during the week. Acording to them,the lifeblood of weekday golf is not retirees but rather professors.

H.D. - Either put your money where your mouth is or stop mouthing off about golf and college professors. Provide us with the data instead of your uninformed opinion. What is the percentage of accountants who play golf in comparision with the percentage of professors who play golf? Do the same thing with physicians. With bankers. With any group. And then conduct the same comparison with hunting, fishing, swimming, jogging, and poker. You choose the populations. You don't have to use some fancy schmanzy scientific method. I doubt that you're capable of doing it that way. And don't worry about matching relevant variables or the other controls normally used in such research. Do it your own sloppy way. But do it. Do it or SHUT UP.
I think you'll find that professor's habits in this regard are not significantly different from the genral population. But's let's see. Let's look at the facts. More more thing: don't bother to do the statistics. Just the numbers, please. These data are probably already online someplace, or in some golfing journal. You seem to have lots of time on your hands. So get to it!

I've provided anecdotal observations from people who run golf courses.Obviously you disagree .If you want studies to support every post on this board, you will have little to read. You seem a little insecure. Do you act that way with your students?

Date: Jan 10, 2006

H.D. Morgan wrote:

I've provided anecdotal observations from people who run golf courses.Obviously you disagree .If you want studies to support every post on this board, you will have little to read. You seem a little insecure. Do you act that way with your students?

H.D., you must have left the green earlier than usual today. Now let's not bother ourselves with the other assertion. Let's direct our attention to yours. Anecdotal comments are as good as no comments at all. I'll be waiting around to see your data. And yes, I do require that my students support their assertions with other than anecdotes. Not hop to it.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

SRD, Jameela and others...I fear you are wasting your breath...some folks have their minds made up and no amount of data will disuade them.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Outside Observer wrote:

SRD, Jameela and others...I fear you are wasting your breath...some folks have their minds made up and no amount of data will disuade them.

OO, I think you're correct. For all the rhetoric, here's a little factual information: I used to live in Bent Creek, and knew the two administrators and 4-5 USM faculty members who were my neighbors. ALL the faculty were "two-earner" households, with both spouses working, and we weren't "keeping up" with the economic standards of our single-employer neighbors, who were mostly lawyers, doctors, veterinarians, new car dealers, and a federal magistrate. I moved to Bent Creek because it wasn't as expensive as Canebrake or Woodstone, neither of which my family could afford, but it was in the Oak Grove school district. Post-divorce, I had to move out of the subdivision. Of course, this won't convince the folks who believe faculty are overpaid, underworked, drive expensive cars just to "impress the neighbors," and who spend all their time on golf courses. Call me "just another wage slave," but with a bit more education (make that, "a few more college degrees") than some Lamar Countians.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Sophomoric Research Design wrote:

H.D. Morgan wrote:
I've provided anecdotal observations from people who run golf courses.Obviously you disagree .If you want studies to support every post on this board, you will have little to read. You seem a little insecure. Do you act that way with your students?
H.D., you must have left the green earlier than usual today. Now let's not bother ourselves with the other assertion. Let's direct our attention to yours. Anecdotal comments are as good as no comments at all. I'll be waiting around to see your data. And yes, I do require that my students support their assertions with other than anecdotes. Not hop to it.

You have asserted that " professor's (sp) habits in this regard are not significantly different from the general population". Please provide data. "I'll be waiting around.."

Date: Jan 10, 2006

This Mr. Morgan et. al. is not here to be convinced of anything. He is here to stir up trouble. I suggest we let him go his way happy in the knowledge that he has ruffled feathers, insulted good hard-working people, and in general been a PITA. After all those were his goals, and he has achieved them. He has been here before with this golf clap-trap, and he will be here again.
(But why always golf? One wonders.)

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Little old lady wrote:

This Mr. Morgan et. al. is not here to be convinced of anything. He is here to stir up trouble. I suggest we let him go his way happy in the knowledge that he has ruffled feathers, insulted good hard-working people, and in general been a PITA. After all those were his goals, and he has achieved them. He has been here before with this golf clap-trap, and he will be here again.
(But why always golf? One wonders.)

You may be right, madam. He does not appear to recognize the rules of argumentative engagement. In his latest post, he simply turned around someone else's comment rather than recognizing that he (or she) had the burden of proof. JL

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Jameela Lares,

There has been no empirical evidence presented by stephen judd or anyone else. There has been only anecdotal evidence presented, as in "I don't know anybody who does these things," or "I know five people who fit the profile exactly." If someone wanted to take a scientific (random) sample of USM faculty, investigate their living arrangements, etc., perform statistical tests, collect the data, and draw conclusions, then THAT would be empirical evidence. So far, the only empirics are those offered relating to tax dollars in vs. tax dollars paid, and no conclusions may be drawn as to causality (or even correlation) between those numbers and anything discussed here so far.

When "old and tired" and I started discussing the issue of USM faculty with poor tact, we didn't say "everyone." In fact "old and tired" stated that it just takes a few rotten apples to spoil the whole bunch. However, you, stephen judd, LVN, foot soldier, and others have essentially claimed that "there are no rotten apples." This basic fallacy has led you to the angry, personalized attack mode in which you are now operating.

You want the real issue? SOME USM faculty aren't smart enough to figure out that, as a public servant (Do you want to argue that we are not public servants?) you shouldn't flaunt your good fortune (lots of flex time, lots of holidays, relatively good salaries) and then expect anybody who does not enjoy those same perks to feel sorry for you when a "boss" "cracks the whip." Some of you acted amazed that the Hattiesburg community didn't rally around the faculty. I can tell you that they have no respect for faculty NOT because they don't value education (which they don't, but there is a more compelling reason...) but because they feel that professors are spoiled, glorified high school teachers who sleep until noon, play golf all the time, make tons of money, drive fancy cars, and live in the most upscale neighborhoods.

We all know this is not true GENERALLY. This isn't about golf, or housing, or cars, or even sleeping until noon. It's about a group of people who thumb their noses at the community because they have an alphabet soup after their names. Not every faculty member abuses the system. However, all it takes is a few examples to reinforce the bad image some already have. Then it starts to spread until it infects the community. I know it's not your job to do PR...just keep repeating that mantra as you wonder why pay raises do not flow easily from the legislature.

What really concerns me is the complete and utter lack of ability to critically examine a problem or an issue like this. Some read as an attack on faculty what was meant as a discussion of how individual faculty decision-making has gone awry. However, you all know better than anyone...you're smarter than anyone else.

We wouldn't be at this point in the thread IF some of you took the time to read peoples' posts and think about the issues raised before firing off an emotionally-charged response.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

To all who really care:

Here's a data point! I don't play golf during the week!!!! Besides, who gives a flip. Get off this tired point. You see what you wish to see!

Date: Jan 10, 2006

I am reminded of the story of the fisherman with two

baskets of lobsters, one with lid and the other without.

When asked why the difference, the fisherman responded

the basked without a lid contained Mississippi lobsters. Every time

one tried to get ahead, the rest pulled it back.

Why on earth we resent others who get ahead is way beyond

me.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

I wonder if faculty members at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, and Auburn have to worry about looking too prosperous to the locals, or is this unique to south Mississippi?

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Sad To Read This Thread wrote:

I am reminded of the story of the fisherman with two
baskets of lobsters, one with lid and the other without.
When asked why the difference, the fisherman responded
the basked without a lid contained Mississippi lobsters. Every time
one tried to get ahead, the rest pulled it back.
Why on earth we resent others who get ahead is way beyond
me.

If this is your analysis of the thread, then you truly are myopic.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Bobby Jones wrote:

I wonder if faculty members at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, and Auburn have to worry about looking too prosperous to the locals, or is this unique to south Mississippi?

You don't see those schools' faculties constantly in the news complaining about being overworked and underpaid.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Old Dog wrote:

Jameela Lares, There has been no empirical evidence presented by stephen judd or anyone else. There has been only anecdotal evidence presented, as in "I don't know anybody who does these things," or "I know five people who fit the profile exactly." If someone wanted to take a scientific (random) sample of USM faculty, investigate their living arrangements, etc., perform statistical tests, collect the data, and draw conclusions, then THAT would be empirical evidence. So far, the only empirics are those offered relating to tax dollars in vs. tax dollars paid, and no conclusions may be drawn as to causality (or even correlation) between those numbers and anything discussed here so far. When "old and tired" and I started discussing the issue of USM faculty with poor tact, we didn't say "everyone." In fact "old and tired" stated that it just takes a few rotten apples to spoil the whole bunch. However, you, stephen judd, LVN, foot soldier, and others have essentially claimed that "there are no rotten apples." This basic fallacy has led you to the angry, personalized attack mode in which you are now operating. You want the real issue? SOME USM faculty aren't smart enough to figure out that, as a public servant (Do you want to argue that we are not public servants?) you shouldn't flaunt your good fortune (lots of flex time, lots of holidays, relatively good salaries) and then expect anybody who does not enjoy those same perks to feel sorry for you when a "boss" "cracks the whip." Some of you acted amazed that the Hattiesburg community didn't rally around the faculty. I can tell you that they have no respect for faculty NOT because they don't value education (which they don't, but there is a more compelling reason...) but because they feel that professors are spoiled, glorified high school teachers who sleep until noon, play golf all the time, make tons of money, drive fancy cars, and live in the most upscale neighborhoods. We all know this is not true GENERALLY. This isn't about golf, or housing, or cars, or even sleeping until noon. It's about a group of people who thumb their noses at the community because they have an alphabet soup after their names. Not every faculty member abuses the system. However, all it takes is a few examples to reinforce the bad image some already have. Then it starts to spread until it infects the community. I know it's not your job to do PR...just keep repeating that mantra as you wonder why pay raises do not flow easily from the legislature. What really concerns me is the complete and utter lack of ability to critically examine a problem or an issue like this. Some read as an attack on faculty what was meant as a discussion of how individual faculty decision-making has gone awry. However, you all know better than anyone...you're smarter than anyone else. We wouldn't be at this point in the thread IF some of you took the time to read peoples' posts and think about the issues raised before firing off an emotionally-charged response.

"Perhaps the most striking feature of the college professor lifestyle is their obsession with the game of golf."

Excuse me sir, but provocative statements like this (at the top of this page, although not by you) are hardly prime examples of the dispassionate, critical and analytical observer some of those who are advancing this argument claim to be.

I believe that I understand your point, to wit . . . that some professors live so conspicuously and treat other people so with such arrogance that they they hurt the reputation of all of us. Is that a fair statement? If so . . . why didn't you simply say that instead of hauling out all of the garbage about golf, working at home, maids, faculty wives working for the Garden Club, etc.

If you'd have said that I'd have simply said I might even agree (as I believe I already have in conceeding that there may be such people.) I'd be doing this based on a simple truism - that in every community of saints there are going to be some percentage of sinners. But the truth is, my own experience in academia, in working with my collegues, simply does not allow me to admit that the kind of behavior you describe is any more widespread than in any other class or community, as I believe I indicated earlier.

What I'd have asked is what exactly you think we should do about it? . . . this being America in which I, thankfully, have the very limited ability to tell someone else how to live his or her life. Hell, I don't even know many people who live the kind of life you seem to find so common so how can I condemn something I only know about because someone whom I do not know and whose personal courage only allows him (or her) to post on this board under a nom de plume assures me is true.

This Board, while open, is also one that was started in order to provide a forum for faculty, staff, alums, and students to talk about issues of concern to our community. Anyone is welcome to participate. And anyone is welcome to state an opinion. But let's be frank -- you have essentially, like a boorish and extremely arrogant guest, walked into my home, told me I have poor taste in decor and live like a slob, and then expect me not to feel that you have abused my hospitality or attacked me personally. Don't throw the bull**** out about being personally attacked when your incredibly sleazy, over the top generalizations are exactly that -- a very personal attack on a group of people whom you seem to dislike. Of cours,e we can't know why you seem so obsessed with wining this argument . . . since unlike some of us we don't even know who you are.

Working "flex" hours isn't a perk. It is a condition of the work. Professors are not the only professionals who do this. These kinds of hours are usually a concession to someone whose job requires long hours, and is also the kind of job where in fact, the work never really ceases. My uncles could walk away from the line at the end of the day and go home and leave work behind. MOst people engaged in professions like academia, law (including the police and detectives) -- do not.

Your image of work is outdated. We live in an information society in which the life of the mind is increasingly becoming the process of work, and the output of the intellect is becoming the marketable product for more and more workers. The skills in demand are thought based -- and that will tend to mean that the work community will look more and more like the university. We haven't gotten there yet -- so we are experiencing a collision of cultures between the old and the new. It is inevitablew that in this kind of cultural and technological shift there are going to be resentments and there are going to be those who translate their resentments into rudeness, or who feel jealous of the way other live.

You seem to have trouble with this. The seething resentment that seems to unlie your argument is that the professional class despises the working class. I think this is a clear case of projection -- you may need to deal with your own hatred of those who work with the mind, and hence whose paradigm of work and the environment and condition of work does not fit yours. Or perhaps you are someone who works with the mind -- and you feel some guilt about that . . . who knows?

At any rate, I'm over this -- it is impossible to have a fair discussion with someone who hides behind the underbrush of a fictional character. You reveal nothing of yourself . . . . hence you won't lay your own credibility on the line. It is axiomatic in the academic community that making an argument begins with the credibility of the person who advances the argument, and that credibility is advanced when the person who makes the argument actually has a name and an identity.

You do not appear to be someone who needs the protection of anonymity.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

You seem to have trouble with this. The seething resentment that seems to unlie your argument is that tI think this is a clear case of projection -- you may need to deal with your own hatred of those who work with the mind, and hence whose paradigm of work and the environment and condition of work does not fit yours. Or perhaps you are someone who works with the mind -- and you feel some guilt about that . . . who knows?

I don't agree. I think it is the same ol' same ol' of an insider with a specific axe to grind against an individual or a group of individuals. More of the divide and conquer tactics that have undermined the original shared mission of the former website.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Bobby Jones wrote:

I wonder if faculty members at Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, and Auburn have to worry about looking too prosperous to the locals, or is this unique to south Mississippi?

Old Dog wrote:

You don't see those schools' faculties constantly in the news complaining about being overworked and underpaid.

The reason is because they are compensated adequately and treated with respect. OM and MSU ain't peaches and cream, but my colleagues there are keenly aware of the oppressive atmosphere here. That's why we have lost faculty to OM and MSU (criminal justice, psychology, higher ed admin, English), but ain't a one that I know has come here from there after a successful run at OM or MSU.

Anybody out there who has moved on having buyers remorse? I thought not...

A health professional with whom I play racketball (a local boy) asked me today how I like it here. I explained that I am open to better possibilities because this is the only place I know of where docs on faculty are placed in a category far below law docs and med docs (many HS teachers get more money and respect). I am in no rush to leave (my kid is a few years away from college still), but the disparaging remarks about faculty are getting old.

Market forces and quality of work life issues are (and will continue to be) why we lose our best faculty. Old Timer and Dog can raise this red herring, but the end result will be a second-rate bottom heavy faculty. One that you can righteously disparage.

Date: Jan 10, 2006

Apology. HD Morgan is the bad, bad boy (or girl), not Oldtimer.