Faculty for Higher Taxes - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 30, 2005

Faculty for Higher Taxes

Date: Dec 30, 2005

F. Pierre wrote:

A new group of stakeholders is being formed to advocate for higher sales taxes here in the city of Hattiesburg. The needs are many and we all need to invest a little more in order to accomplish our goals of a just and fair society.

This is a joke, right?

Date: Dec 30, 2005

F. Pierre wrote:

A new group of stakeholders is being formed to advocate for higher sales taxes here in the city of Hattiesburg. The needs are many and we all need to invest a little more in order to accomplish our goals of a just and fair society.

Pierre--

I think you are just trying to provoke a little fuss. Sure looks like a bunch of words that one side would readily attribute to another side. Words like "stakeholders," "the needs are many," "invest a little more," "our goals of a just and fair society." Why didn't you just throw in "comrade," too? A little bit over the top, maybe?

Who said, "Don't tax you, don't tax me. Tax that fellow behind the tree."?

Date: Dec 31, 2005

F. Pierre wrote:

A new group of stakeholders is being formed to advocate for higher sales taxes here in the city of Hattiesburg. The needs are many and we all need to invest a little more in order to accomplish our goals of a just and fair society.

There are no "needs", only wants. There are large numbers of people who want to "do good" with my time and my money. Indeed, such people never see a limit to how much they want others to pay for their pet projects. Folks who are outraged that the government may listen to their telephone call are cavalier about confiscating my money.

Date: Dec 31, 2005

Cossack wrote:

There are no "needs", only wants.

<SARCASM>Yes, we don't need fire or police protection & we certainly don't need public education at any level. These are just "wants."</SARCASM>

Don't make blanket statements, Cossack, when you're trying to argue against a specific tax increase. And if you work at the University of Southern Mississippi, take a look in the mirror tomorrow morning (it'll be a whole new year) & say, "I am on the public dole."

Date: Dec 31, 2005

The demand for nearly anything (public or private sector) is unlimited. The "wait a minute" moment is the cost versus benefits. Almost anything done in the public sector has benefits. The important question is whether it is worth the cost. A perfect example is our new $41 million student union at USM. It unquestionably has benefits (especially to the firm that constructed it , oh I'm sorry that's economic development). Are those benefits worth the cost? Throw in the vote buying factor so prevalent in politics and you get what Cossack is upset about.

BTW, watch the new Fed Chairman. Unlike his predecessor he will not comment on the efficacy of particular Federal government programs. His mantra is going to be "rigorous cost/benefit analysis". This is going to make Congress very uncomfortable.

Before you start throwing the "you can't possibly quantify this stuff" bomb, consider that throwing away C/B analysis gives the vote buyers a much clearer field. And there ain't many votes or rememdial algebra.

Feliz ano nuevo mi amigo.

Date: Jan 1, 2006

Welcome back to the board, mighty Cossack! You have been missed.

Always battle the ignorant, the deceivers, and the secret agenda artists. We are cursed with many of those here. Choose your path, then make it clear.

Date: Jan 1, 2006

And the horse you rode in on wrote:

F. Pierre wrote:
A new group of stakeholders is being formed to advocate for higher sales taxes here in the city of Hattiesburg. The needs are many and we all need to invest a little more in order to accomplish our goals of a just and fair society.

This is a joke, right?

This corresponds to what I read in the local newspaper. It's no joke and it shouldn't be. Poverty and injustice permeate the fiber of our society. If we in the academic community don't help,who will?

Date: Jan 1, 2006

Well, I won't argue that the infrastructure needs in Hburg are many and serious, and maybe we do need the sales tax. However, I would also note that when I lived in New Orleans the sales tax was 10% and I didn't see that buying any justice or fairness.

Justice and fairness come from the heart, not the pocketbook, although the heart should inform the pocketbook.

We might also recall that this benighted state is the top, or near the top, in per capita giving in the entire nation.

Date: Jan 1, 2006

Certainly not the Red Cross.

Private donations of time and money for the many needs are a wonderful thing, but further gouging of taxpayers to achieve no visible results is a drain on us all, a waste of effort, and a reduction in money available to individuals to give to charities.

The joke was not some non-thinker wrote about in a newspaper, but that some faculty, staff, or administrator thought it was a good idea. More taxes are never a solution to any problem. Once taxes are started, they seldom are repealed. More taxes combined with no raises for most of us (therefore a real income loss) is tough to absorb; why do you want to inflict more harm on us all? Have we not suffered enough these last several months?

Date: Jan 1, 2006

This corresponds to what I read in the local newspaper. It's no joke and it shouldn't be. Poverty and injustice permeate the fiber of our society. If we in the academic community don't help,who will?

When has giving politicians more money ever solved the problem of poverty and injustice? The injustice is not that taxpayers are stingy, it is that governments at all level are not producing the product that they promised when enacting taxes. We pour more and more money into public school systems and the results are declining test scores. Extensive welfare systems have done to little to decrease poverty and have caused serious harm to the social structure, especially in the African American communities. Many African American parents are forced to send their children to dangerous and non-performing schools. At the same time, many who sincerely want to see these parents helped, deny them the opportunity to receive vouchers in order to send their children to schools where they can learn. Those who call for higher taxes would do well to push for more accountability and allow more freedom of choice, especially for those who are the under class. Happy New Year.

Date: Jan 1, 2006

I wonder how high the sales tax would have to be in Hattiesburg to eliminate poverty and injustice. Someone break it to me softly.

Date: Jan 1, 2006

Promised Land wrote:

I wonder how high the sales tax would have to be in Hattiesburg to eliminate poverty and injustice. Someone break it to me softly.

Since that is impossible, even 100% would not do it. We might - might - agree on when "poverty" was eliminated, but "injustice" will be here until the end; we will all never agree on that. We cannot even agree that higher taxes are a negative and lower taxes are a positive.

Happy 2006.

Date: Jan 3, 2006

I think one mistake many make is not viewing higher taxes as an investment,rather than a burden. I believe former President Clinton was one of the few politicians who did not make this common error.

Date: Jan 3, 2006

I think one mistake many make is not viewing higher taxes as an investment,rather than a burden. I believe former President Clinton was one of the few politicians who did not make this common error.

There are three serious mistakes with the concept of viewing higher taxes as an investment. First, as noted by poster Public Finance 101 in a previous post, an investment must be evaluated on the basis of cost versus benefit. Second the parameters of the investment must be clearly delineated in terms of the assets and labor required to reach some measurable goal. Third, the order of decision making for an investment is to determine the cost of the investment, and then determine how to raise the funds. To request a tax increase on the basis of "there is poverty and injustice" is risible, and it is both bad economics and bad political science.

Date: Jan 3, 2006

F.Pierre wrote:

I think one mistake many make is not viewing higher taxes as an investment,rather than a burden. I believe former President Clinton was one of the few politicians who did not make this common error.

First, Cossack responded to this perfectly.

Second, it is clear why you selected the French name for the board.

Third, I commend you on your willingness to stay your course even when it is wrong; I do not understand the commitment to error, but at least you are not jumping from one position to another like many of the rest of your brothers and sisters.

What is next? Railing against heavy morning fog? Or do you not because you might hurt the fog's feelings?