Digital MBA Program Advances - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Digital MBA Program Advances

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Are you sure this isn't the University of Southern Louisiana? An 8 member panel had 6-4 and 5-5 vote? Were there some corpses in the room?

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Rumor in the CoB halls has it that you get 10 (yes 10) votes in an 8-person (yes 8) committee when Harold and Barry show up (neither is on the committee) and vote yes for the digital MBA classes. Talk about an unfairly stacked deck . . .

Date: Nov 30, 2005

FFG wrote:

Rumor in the CoB halls has it that you get 10 (yes 10) votes in an 8-person (yes 8) committee when Harold and Barry show up (neither is on the committee) and vote yes for the digital MBA classes. Talk about an unfairly stacked deck . . .

FFG, it appears you are correct. Here is the committee list:

Committee Members – 2005-06

GRADUATE PROGRAMS COMMITTEE

Laurie Babin, Co-Chair

Beth LaFleur, Co-Chair

Stephen Bushardt

John Clark

Stan Clark

Francis Daniel

Chang Hsieh

David Sharp

The fact that Barry and Doty showed up and voted is part 2. Remember, the secret ad hoc committee was part 1.

Where are all the Doty defenders from outside COB? Wanna come out and play?

Date: Nov 30, 2005

If this is indeed the case, why did the committee co-chairs not step up to the plate (do their job) and prevent Harold and Barry from voting?

Date: Nov 30, 2005

FFG wrote:

If this is indeed the case, why did the committee co-chairs not step up to the plate (do their job) and prevent Harold and Barry from voting?

you've obviously never tried to disagree with HD. it's sort of like talking to a wall with a built in insult function.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

I understand that one committee member, not the chairs, did question Doty's right to vote. What's the story with that?

Date: Nov 30, 2005

frayed in the middle wrote:

I understand that one committee member, not the chairs, did question Doty's right to vote. What's the story with that?

Ask your favorite committee member about that, as well as the dean's parting shot to the committee when the vote didn't quite go his way.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Last Word, it's not nice to tease

Date: Nov 30, 2005

secret ad hoc committees + voting irregularities = strategic human resource management.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

frayed in the middle wrote:

I understand that one committee member, not the chairs, did question Doty's right to vote. What's the story with that?

frayed, have you heard that Doty is trying to help Barry land a Dean job? That story has been circulating around the CoB. Now there are two CoB people looking for Dean positions elsewhere.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

FFG wrote:

Rumor in the CoB halls has it that you get 10 (yes 10) votes in an 8-person (yes 8) committee when Harold and Barry show up (neither is on the committee) and vote yes for the digital MBA classes. Talk about an unfairly stacked deck . . .

FFG, why didn't Doty also take Grimes with him and break the ties on all of the other votes?

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Private Lens, I had not heard the story about Barry and a dean's job. Harold does not seem to be able to help himself get a new dean's job, much less anyone else.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

Almost half the committee is untenured. Oh boy.

Date: Nov 30, 2005

We've known all along that Doty was not a good Dean. This is just more evidence of that.

Date: Dec 1, 2005

Maybe I'm old-fashioned- maybe even kind of conservative,but I think that curriculum committees should vote and that vote becomes the recommendation to the dean. Seems rather strange that the dean should vote on the very recommendation that he is later supposed to consider.

Amy Young

Date: Dec 1, 2005

Well said Amy. Don't forget that he also dragged another administrator in there with him. There is a story circulating that some of his "booze account" money is being spread around the building, just like ole time politics.

Date: Dec 1, 2005

In time of trouble, hd becomes Monty Hall: Let's Make A Deal. Need funding for a meeting? Database? A change in teaching schedule for next semester or next year? Need (unwarranted?) support for promotion or tenure? Or the ever-popular change in annual evaluation numbers. Come one, come all . . . until I have the votes I need.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

It turns out rumors in the CoB halls were not quite correct. Harold and Francis Daniel (the MBA program director) are both ex officio members of the CoB Graduate Program Committee and both showed up at the meeting and voted on the digital MBA classes. A review of Robert's Rules of Order indicates that it is technically correct for ex officio members to vote, even if they have never done so in the past. Barry was also at the meeting and voted in the election even though he is not listed as a CoB Graduate Program Committee member in the committee list sent out by the CoB earlier this semester (Wowser sent the list earlier in this thread). There seems to be some confusion among CoB faculty members about exactly who is on the committee and how long they have been there. There was also a rumor in play that someone questioned Harold's right to vote in the election. Apparently, this was not the case. Nobody said anything . . .

Date: Dec 3, 2005

FFG is telling the tale told to him. If Doty was voted on to every committee at some meeting, no one remembers it. If committee memberships were revised after the last list sent by the associate dean, then it is either a clerical error (undoubtedly their story) or intentional. This does not explain Barry Babin's presence at the meeting, and it especially does not explain his vote. His "volunteering" for the committee after it was established does not put him on the committee. Others have volunteered for a committee and not been placed on it. Additionally, while Robert's may allow someone in the dean's position to vote, historically no one ever has. While no dean ever has acknowledged that the CoB existed prior to their deanship, this is a very bad time - and all the more damning - to invoke Robert's Rules to try to rig the game you are losing, and one that the CoB faculty clearly do not want.

The issue: Doty wants this for himself. Period. He wants it for a resume item to spin in interviews, to try to appease Thames, and/or simply to once again aggravate the CoB faculty who have not caved in to his every silly whim. He is acting like a spoiled brat who is not getting his way. He is trying every emotion ploy, bullying tactic, and leverage game he can. What more do you need to know when the only known allies are those up for tenure and/or promotion, new administrators, or their spouses?

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Here's a new analysis of the CoB Graduate Programs Committee at the time of the vote this past week:

GRADUATE PROGRAMS COMMITTEE

Laurie Babin, Co-Chair (wife of Barry)

Beth LaFleur, Co-Chair (untenured; tenure folder currently sitting on Doty's desk)

Barry Babin ("Volunteered" for committee post; Chair of Mkt/Mgt, works for Doty)

Stephen Bushardt

John Clark (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk)

Stan Clark

Francis Daniel (Director of CoB Graduate Programs; works for Doty)

Harold Doty (Dean of the CoB; this committee is his advisory body, and he sits on it w/ vote)

Chang Hsieh

David Sharp (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk)

Departmental Representation:

Accounting and MIS: 2 (S. Clark and Hsieh)

Economics and Finance: 2 (J. Clark and Sharp)

Marketing/Management: 6 (B. Babin, L. Babin, Bushardt, Daniel, Doty, LaFleur)

Date: Dec 3, 2005

cooked books wrote:

Here's a new analysis of the CoB Graduate Programs Committee at the time of the vote this past week: GRADUATE PROGRAMS COMMITTEE Laurie Babin, Co-Chair (wife of Barry) Beth LaFleur, Co-Chair (untenured; tenure folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Barry Babin ("Volunteered" for committee post; Chair of Mkt/Mgt, works for Doty) Stephen Bushardt John Clark (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Stan Clark Francis Daniel (Director of CoB Graduate Programs; works for Doty) Harold Doty (Dean of the CoB; this committee is his advisory body, and he sits on it w/ vote) Chang Hsieh David Sharp (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Departmental Representation: Accounting and MIS: 2 (S. Clark and Hsieh) Economics and Finance: 2 (J. Clark and Sharp) Marketing/Management: 6 (B. Babin, L. Babin, Bushardt, Daniel, Doty, LaFleur)

How do you figure Bushardt voted?

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Isn't Beth LeFleur Hotel Restaurant Tourism?

Date: Dec 3, 2005

cooked books wrote:

Here's a new analysis of the CoB Graduate Programs Committee at the time of the vote this past week: GRADUATE PROGRAMS COMMITTEE Laurie Babin, Co-Chair (wife of Barry) Beth LaFleur, Co-Chair (untenured; tenure folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Barry Babin ("Volunteered" for committee post; Chair of Mkt/Mgt, works for Doty) Stephen Bushardt John Clark (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Stan Clark Francis Daniel (Director of CoB Graduate Programs; works for Doty) Harold Doty (Dean of the CoB; this committee is his advisory body, and he sits on it w/ vote) Chang Hsieh David Sharp (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Departmental Representation: Accounting and MIS: 2 (S. Clark and Hsieh) Economics and Finance: 2 (J. Clark and Sharp) Marketing/Management: 6 (B. Babin, L. Babin, Bushardt, Daniel, Doty, LaFleur)

While the current graduate committee is appointed by the Dean of CoB, there is no reason why it must continue to be so. If an individual faculty member perceives the current method of allowing the Dean to appoint committee members is inadequate then he/she needs to introduce a motion at the faculty meeting scheduled for December 9 of next week. The motion can specify representation by department, call for the election of committee members and specify the dates for the election to take place. The current system reflects a lack of interests in shared governances by the faculty which appears to have work well with Dean’s Green, Black and Gunther. Maybe it is time for a change..

While” cooked books” appears to be somewhat critical of the committee, it is rather significant with a vote of 5 to 5 that some untenured faculty, individuals up for promotion or administrative appointees would risk so much personally for the good of CoB. Any effort by the administration to punish these junior faculty for exercising their responsibility should be met with a motion for a no confidence vote in the Dean. While I would not support a vote of no confidence in the Dean of CoB at this time, it is good to know that we have the option and for him to understand that we have the option.

As for the current proposed course changes coming from the graduate committee in CoB, one would hope they would not be perceived by the faculty as a referendum on the Dean. While he may perceive everything is about him, the course changes are about how to best to serve our students and how to use our limited resources to best serve the people of the state of Mississippi. Issues about what central administration or the Dean will do to the college are not germane to our decisions on curriculum, as they will do what they are going to do and we need to focus on issues of quality education for our students.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Well, Bob, that is what the CoB faculty is trying to do by voting down this idea. It would already have a negative recommendation from the Graduate Committee but for the vote rigging. Many hope the faculty will have the fortitude to vote as s/he believes on Friday at the faculty meeting.

I think each faculty member should have a chance to vote as s/he wants to do so. I do not think anyone, including the dean, should have multiple votes on the same topic. It should be as with tenure and promotion decisions. Here Doty voted in the Graduate Committee meeting, surely plans to vote in the faculty meeeting Friday, and will undoubtedly write a recommendation to be forwarded to the Graduate Council. Influence is expected, arm-twisting is normal, but multiple votes by anyone on this issue - dean or Graduate Committee members - is misguided. Also misguided is calling for another Graduate Committee vote on Wednesday so as to get a different/better result for the dean. I wish the Committee luck in facing the re-vote. The CoB, and many others at USM, are watching your ethics, fortitude, and heart. Please remember that this will guide how others treat you not just on this issue, but in every aspect for the rest of your time at USM. In case you were wondering, that includes handing a proxy to anyone else and turning your back on this issue. People on this board have used the phrase many times and it applies here as well: No Quarter.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

astonished wrote:

Isn't Beth LeFleur Hotel Restaurant Tourism?

No, Marketing. Up for tenure this year.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

old time book cooker wrote:

cooked books wrote:
Here's a new analysis of the CoB Graduate Programs Committee at the time of the vote this past week: GRADUATE PROGRAMS COMMITTEE Laurie Babin, Co-Chair (wife of Barry) Beth LaFleur, Co-Chair (untenured; tenure folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Barry Babin ("Volunteered" for committee post; Chair of Mkt/Mgt, works for Doty) Stephen Bushardt John Clark (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Stan Clark Francis Daniel (Director of CoB Graduate Programs; works for Doty) Harold Doty (Dean of the CoB; this committee is his advisory body, and he sits on it w/ vote) Chang Hsieh David Sharp (untenured; tenure and promotion folder currently sitting on Doty's desk) Departmental Representation: Accounting and MIS: 2 (S. Clark and Hsieh) Economics and Finance: 2 (J. Clark and Sharp) Marketing/Management: 6 (B. Babin, L. Babin, Bushardt, Daniel, Doty, LaFleur)

How do you figure Bushardt voted?

You never know. He is always quite . . . . flexible,

Date: Dec 3, 2005

How do you figure Bushardt voted?

You never know. He is always quite . . . . flexible

Well put....

Date: Dec 3, 2005

I have been an advocate of dropping the MBA at USM all together (which is mostly very watered down undergrad work!). With the limited resources we do have, and the very marginal value of an MBA from Southern for students, I think it would be best to build the best undergraduate program in the state - where students would identify Southern as the public school with personal attention in matters of business education in MS. I would go so far as to "cap" enrollment, which many of the top, big public biz schools do. This is a long-term quality strategy and it is also a way to build true distinctiveness into business education. What then could be overhauled in a truly innovative way is the currciulum and content of courses.

This will never happen in the current environment of course, but I think in many ways would be the best move.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Drop the MBA wrote:

I have been an advocate of dropping the MBA at USM all together (which is mostly very watered down undergrad work!). With the limited resources we do have, and the very marginal value of an MBA from Southern for students, I think it would be best to build the best undergraduate program in the state - where students would identify Southern as the public school with personal attention in matters of business education in MS. I would go so far as to "cap" enrollment, which many of the top, big public biz schools do. This is a long-term quality strategy and it is also a way to build true distinctiveness into business education. What then could be overhauled in a truly innovative way is the currciulum and content of courses.
This will never happen in the current environment of course, but I think in many ways would be the best move.

It would be in many ways, if we could really work the undergraduates as they need to be worked. This would lead to good jobs for most students.

You are right this will not happen any time soon. Until then, how about we ramp up the current MBA, quit watering it down, and stop letting so many known slackers in the classroom "teach" in it. That too will not happen.