Thames-Giannini Press Conference - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Thames-Giannini Press Conference

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Big Bowl game!!!!! Gazillions of $$$$'s??????????

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Answer man wrote:

Big Bowl game!!!!! Gazillions of $$$$'s??????????

Not likely; USM typically loses money going to any of the 4 bowls outside of the Liberty.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

There's a few muffled rumblings coming out of the AD this week. First, there appears to be a dwindling opportunity for the football team to go "bowling" this year. Second, the team's marginal record (6-5) is a far cry from the 9-2 demand Thames placed on Bower at the start of the season.

There is a rumor circulating that Bower may get bumped to an AD-level position and that a new football coach may be named as early as next Friday (the 9th of Dec.).

Names I have heard already are Neuheisel, Sherrill, and Hatten.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

The One Man Gang wrote:

Names I have heard already are Neuheisel, Sherrill, and Hatten.

Figures.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=1897457

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Why doesn't Shelby just coach the football team? He obviously knows more about everything than anybody else. Ask anybody who's been in his presence more than five minutes.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Bower may go, but he's not waiting around. He's already talking to Mazzone about a position here.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

another note wrote:

Bower may go, but he's not waiting around. He's already talking to Mazzone about a position here.

Who or what is Mazzone?

Date: Nov 28, 2005

it's a type of italian meatball sub. no really, mazzone is a coach at Ole Miss who has apparently been fired. think he was the offensive coordinator.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

Actually Mazzone is the offensive coordinator at auburn

Date: Nov 28, 2005

sorry i actually mean NC State
Noel Mazzone
COACHING EXPERIENCE: College - Offensive coordinator at NC State (2003-present); Running backs/Special Teams Coordinator at Oregon State (2002); Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks coach at Auburn (1999-2001); Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks coach at Mississippi (1994-98); Quarterbacks coach at Minnesota (1992-94); Quarterbacks coach at Texas Christian (1987-91); Quarterbacks and receivers coach at Colorado State (1982-86); Graduate assistant at New Mexico (1980-81); High School - Assistant coach at Boulder (Colo.) High School (1981).

Date: Nov 28, 2005

cyc46 wrote:

sorry i actually mean NC State
Noel Mazzone
COACHING EXPERIENCE: College - Offensive coordinator at NC State (2003-present); Running backs/Special Teams Coordinator at Oregon State (2002); Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks coach at Auburn (1999-2001); Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks coach at Mississippi (1994-98); Quarterbacks coach at Minnesota (1992-94); Quarterbacks coach at Texas Christian (1987-91); Quarterbacks and receivers coach at Colorado State (1982-86); Graduate assistant at New Mexico (1980-81); High School - Assistant coach at Boulder (Colo.) High School (1981).

not sure how old this info is, but noel mazzone is at ole miss and will be fired (offically) in the next few days.....per clairon ledger yesterday and today

-------

surely even sft wouldnt hire jackie sherrill.....

Date: Nov 28, 2005

yeap I stand corrected. So appears even if Bower is talking to Mazzone about a position his job skills are about as good as his coaching skills.

Date: Nov 28, 2005

upper deck wrote:

surely even sft wouldnt hire jackie sherrill.....

Do you recall the story about the bull?

Date: Nov 28, 2005

PITA piper wrote:

Do you recall the story about the bull?

Leave our Nugget alone!

Date: Nov 28, 2005

PITA piper wrote:

upper deck wrote:
surely even sft wouldnt hire jackie sherrill.....
Do you recall the story about the bull?

apparently the bull was not the only animal to have eqpt removed at MSU....jackie should have been fired 3 years earlier......bulldogs are still paying for jackie's deeds

its hard to believe the adminstration at MSU allowed jackie's antics, thus the bull and the ad must have lost something

Date: Nov 28, 2005

gonelo wrote:

Answer man wrote: Big Bowl game!!!!! Gazillions of $$$$'s?????????? Not likely; USM typically loses money going to any of the 4 bowls outside of the Liberty.

To the point of a bowl deficit outside of the Liberty, Conference USA has said the league will help cover the expenses associated with the bowl game in Hawaii.

Regarding Noel Mazzone at Ole Miss, head coach Ed Orgeron said in a news conference that Mazzone would be employed at Ole Miss next year but would not be on the coaching staff (pretty easy to read between the lines on that statement).

My guess is any press conference from the AD at this point will be to talk about bowl possibilities and to put a positive spin on yet another winning season for the Golden Eagles (albeit a 6-5 finish). This season Mississippi State and Ole Miss share the honor of being the cellar-dwellers in the Southeastern Conference, and while USM is no longer the perennial favorite in Conference USA, a winning season and a possible post-season bowl berth both look pretty good to prospective recruits.

I will be surprised, very surprised, if Jeff Bower is "reassigned" within the AD.

Date: Dec 2, 2005

say what you will about Rick Neuheisel and the gambling thing up at Washington, but he did a damn good job up there coaching wise (33-15 in a 4 year period) and even the NCAA said HE DID NOTHING WRONG. He didn't bet on football, it was simply a March madness betting pool in the office, a lot of people across the country (upper, middle and lower class) do that.

Fact is that CUSA is becoming loaded with coaches who are quite capable of outcoaching Jeff Bower (O'Leary, Price, West, Kragthorpe, etc.) Remember that Memphis is 3-1 or 4-1 against USM since Tommy West took over. If anything, Bower will stay (for a year or something) but be forced to overhaul his staff.

Date: Dec 2, 2005

Curt Yeomans wrote:

Fact is that CUSA is becoming loaded with coaches who are quite capable of outcoaching Jeff Bower (O'Leary, Price, West, Kragthorpe, etc.) Remember that Memphis is 3-1 or 4-1 against USM since Tommy West took over. If anything, Bower will stay (for a year or something) but be forced to overhaul his staff.

One might also offer that the fact is that every other team in CUSA is located at an institution that has not been on academic probation & has a larger athletic budget than USM.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

and then one could argue that USM was way ahead of every school including UL in terms of recruting and prestige at the beginning of conference USA and Bower got caught from behind. Then he allowed poor recruiting for 3 years. Spin it all you want that athletic budget isnt what is holding USM back its Bowers poor coaching ability.

Also UL didnt average as well as we didnt until they decided it was time to get serious about football. Brought in a good head coach John L Smith and installed a fun to watch offense. They attendance went through the roof. Do you think Papa's John just showed up one day and said hey let me help you build a new stadium. No the AD had to work for it, and they wanted to support a winner. Until Bower leaves you will see the same 28k at football games. Those 28k are pretty much our fan base. I would bet that once Bower leaves and a new coach comes in and spreads some excitement attendance would increase by atleast 3k instantly.

People are tired of watch ole Bower wear that stupid looking visor and run the same 5 offensive plays. If i can call the play in the stands the other team sure as hell can. For those of you who dont believe in what I am saying we have a example right there on campus. Look at the excitement baseball garners. We average around the top 25 in attendance in that sport. Wanna know why. Because there is excitement around the team all the time and that comes directly from the coaching staff and the fans impression of their ability. Plus the great atompshere. Compared to going to the Pete to going to the Rock and sometimes it feels like your going to a funeral when you watch our football team.

Some of these schools with bigger athletic budgets just didnt decided overnight they wanted to spend 31 mil on sports. For us to get better at revenue we are gonna have to improve our product. Lets face it Jeff used to be Budweiser now he is more like Pabst's Blue Ribbon beer.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

cyc46 wrote:

Then he allowed poor recruiting for 3 years.

Strange how some people get all out of kilter and want to fire the coach when athletic recruiting is not to their liking (as evidenced by win-loss records), but they don't seem to give a fritter when academic recruiting goes afoul (as evidenced by SAC scores, etc.).

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Jax wrote:

SAC scores

SAT scores

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Cy -- I agree on the Bower/offense front. For years I have gone to the games and sat there and hit nearly all of the upcoming offensive plays on the head. If I can do that you have to assume coaches for other teams do as well. Favorite plays? The wide receiver split screen that must have worked once in 1982 so they call it every fifth play. Also the inside run without a lead blocker that allows the middle linebacker just to stand there and stop it for no gain. It must have worked once in 1985. Run every sixth play. Another word on Bower -- though I respect him as a person and think that he has done nearly as much as can be expected here -- I have NEVER seen him make gametime adjustments to another team's scheme and thus outcoach the opponent on the sideline. Teams it seems always adjust to us at halftime. We, on the other hand, often look like deer caught in the headllights after halftime -- running our same five plays and dumbfounded that the enemy is doing something different!

Date: Dec 3, 2005

Ripper wrote:

Cy -- I agree on the Bower/offense front. For years I have gone to the games and sat there and hit nearly all of the upcoming offensive plays on the head. If I can do that you have to assume coaches for other teams do as well. Favorite plays? The wide receiver split screen that must have worked once in 1982 so they call it every fifth play. Also the inside run without a lead blocker that allows the middle linebacker just to stand there and stop it for no gain. It must have worked once in 1985. Run every sixth play. Another word on Bower -- though I respect him as a person and think that he has done nearly as much as can be expected here -- I have NEVER seen him make gametime adjustments to another team's scheme and thus outcoach the opponent on the sideline. Teams it seems always adjust to us at halftime. We, on the other hand, often look like deer caught in the headllights after halftime -- running our same five plays and dumbfounded that the enemy is doing something different!

Remember when M.K. Turk was cited by some magazine or newspaper for being the worst bench coach in the country? He could recruit but could never make adjustments during a game.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

cyc46 wrote:

and then one could argue that USM was way ahead of every school including UL in terms of recruting and prestige at the beginning of conference USA and Bower got caught from behind. Then he allowed poor recruiting for 3 years. Spin it all you want that athletic budget isnt what is holding USM back its Bowers poor coaching ability. Also UL didnt average as well as we didnt until they decided it was time to get serious about football. Brought in a good head coach John L Smith and installed a fun to watch offense. They attendance went through the roof. Do you think Papa's John just showed up one day and said hey let me help you build a new stadium. No the AD had to work for it, and they wanted to support a winner. Until Bower leaves you will see the same 28k at football games. Those 28k are pretty much our fan base. I would bet that once Bower leaves and a new coach comes in and spreads some excitement attendance would increase by atleast 3k instantly. People are tired of watch ole Bower wear that stupid looking visor and run the same 5 offensive plays. If i can call the play in the stands the other team sure as hell can. For those of you who dont believe in what I am saying we have a example right there on campus. Look at the excitement baseball garners. We average around the top 25 in attendance in that sport. Wanna know why. Because there is excitement around the team all the time and that comes directly from the coaching staff and the fans impression of their ability. Plus the great atompshere. Compared to going to the Pete to going to the Rock and sometimes it feels like your going to a funeral when you watch our football team. Some of these schools with bigger athletic budgets just didnt decided overnight they wanted to spend 31 mil on sports. For us to get better at revenue we are gonna have to improve our product. Lets face it Jeff used to be Budweiser now he is more like Pabst's Blue Ribbon beer.

Louisville is the 16th largest city in the United States ("the largest metropolitan area in the state of Kentucky.") It has a student population of 22,000. UCF is the LARGEST school in the florida system (47,000 students) dwarfing even FSU, Florida and Miami. What you are seeing here is the beginning of a new power in Florida that wil probably outstrip the traditional powers there. Tulsa, although a small university (about 4500 students) is privately funded and in a city of about 550,000. These are some factors that at least affect (although they do not completely determine) size of recruting pool, ability to ddraw from the top of the recruiting pool, and potential fan attendance. When I jumped on the Louisville and the Tulsa website, the hilighted programs were academic -- check out the faq that Tulsa posts.

The truth is that it takes more than a coach to draw talent. Even football players want to come to schools where there is a large population of young people, lots to do, and a cmpus that has a lively life that isn't confined to athletics or parties after 10 pm.

The experiment with Larry E will be interesting . . . to see if a coach by power of personality and coaching ability alone can build a program with a long range promise of limited resources as far as the eye can see.

USM athletics, like virtually every other department at USM, struggles for resources because of the kind of urban center it is in, the fact that it is one of three (and the "poor stepchild" to boot) major universities in a poor state with a limited population.

Although it may be a great goal for fans, I have yet to see anyone present a case that getting to the "next level" in athletics will help the academic programs. I think you can make an equal case for going the other way . . . a university that grows its academic programs and produces students who go on to great success who then share those resources back to the university may one day have the resources and growth to support a great athletic program.

The case is there to be made either way -- but this university community has never had the debate and gotten everyone (or a majority) on board one way or another. Instead, the power brokers have determined the direction of the university. Rather than trying to get everyone on board and ensuring the the university as a whole is moving together . . . they are bulling over anyone who seems to be in the way. You can't rah rah your way to a great athletic team -- you have to get people to buy in and that hasn't happened.

But then why would it? We are never asked to buy into any decision here. The way in which the decision about outsourcing physical plant is a perfect example. The way to handle this would have been for Gregg and the President and Rusty to meet with the employees in a big meeting and present their plans and field the questions and take the hits. They need to calm people's fears by getting out of their office and putting themselves where they can be seen and questioned. That is leadership. That is how you get people to buy in. They need to be assured that you as the manager have their interests in mind as you make these decisions -- and that can only be done face to face. Even Lee Iococoa, when he downsized Chysler, went sirectly to the employees and told them what was going on and why. No one was happy -- but at least people got a chnace to talk to the man and gauge his honesty.

That is leadership. We don't have it here.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

stephen judd wrote:

The truth is that it takes more than a coach to draw talent

Building a better academic mousetrap is the best way to attract the better students. Building a better academic mousetrap is also the best way to attract better athletes. Those who support USM athletics at the expense of USM academics would do well to understand that principle. It works.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

stephen judd wrote:

cyc46 wrote:
and then one could argue that USM was way ahead of every school including UL in terms of recruting and prestige at the beginning of conference USA and Bower got caught from behind. Then he allowed poor recruiting for 3 years. Spin it all you want that athletic budget isnt what is holding USM back its Bowers poor coaching ability. Also UL didnt average as well as we didnt until they decided it was time to get serious about football. Brought in a good head coach John L Smith and installed a fun to watch offense. They attendance went through the roof. Do you think Papa's John just showed up one day and said hey let me help you build a new stadium. No the AD had to work for it, and they wanted to support a winner. Until Bower leaves you will see the same 28k at football games. Those 28k are pretty much our fan base. I would bet that once Bower leaves and a new coach comes in and spreads some excitement attendance would increase by atleast 3k instantly. People are tired of watch ole Bower wear that stupid looking visor and run the same 5 offensive plays. If i can call the play in the stands the other team sure as hell can. For those of you who dont believe in what I am saying we have a example right there on campus. Look at the excitement baseball garners. We average around the top 25 in attendance in that sport. Wanna know why. Because there is excitement around the team all the time and that comes directly from the coaching staff and the fans impression of their ability. Plus the great atompshere. Compared to going to the Pete to going to the Rock and sometimes it feels like your going to a funeral when you watch our football team. Some of these schools with bigger athletic budgets just didnt decided overnight they wanted to spend 31 mil on sports. For us to get better at revenue we are gonna have to improve our product. Lets face it Jeff used to be Budweiser now he is more like Pabst's Blue Ribbon beer.

Louisville is the 16th largest city in the United States ("the largest metropolitan area in the state of Kentucky.") It has a student population of 22,000. UCF is the LARGEST school in the florida system (47,000 students) dwarfing even FSU, Florida and Miami. What you are seeing here is the beginning of a new power in Florida that wil probably outstrip the traditional powers there. Tulsa, although a small university (about 4500 students) is privately funded and in a city of about 550,000. These are some factors that at least affect (although they do not completely determine) size of recruting pool, ability to ddraw from the top of the recruiting pool, and potential fan attendance. When I jumped on the Louisville and the Tulsa website, the hilighted programs were academic -- check out the faq that Tulsa posts.
The truth is that it takes more than a coach to draw talent. Even football players want to come to schools where there is a large population of young people, lots to do, and a cmpus that has a lively life that isn't confined to athletics or parties after 10 pm.
The experiment with Larry E will be interesting . . . to see if a coach by power of personality and coaching ability alone can build a program with a long range promise of limited resources as far as the eye can see.
USM athletics, like virtually every other department at USM, struggles for resources because of the kind of urban center it is in, the fact that it is one of three (and the "poor stepchild" to boot) major universities in a poor state with a limited population.
Although it may be a great goal for fans, I have yet to see anyone present a case that getting to the "next level" in athletics will help the academic programs. I think you can make an equal case for going the other way . . . a university that grows its academic programs and produces students who go on to great success who then share those resources back to the university may one day have the resources and growth to support a great athletic program.
The case is there to be made either way -- but this university community has never had the debate and gotten everyone (or a majority) on board one way or another. Instead, the power brokers have determined the direction of the university. Rather than trying to get everyone on board and ensuring the the university as a whole is moving together . . . they are bulling over anyone who seems to be in the way. You can't rah rah your way to a great athletic team -- you have to get people to buy in and that hasn't happened.
But then why would it? We are never asked to buy into any decision here. The way in which the decision about outsourcing physical plant is a perfect example. The way to handle this would have been for Gregg and the President and Rusty to meet with the employees in a big meeting and present their plans and field the questions and take the hits. They need to calm people's fears by getting out of their office and putting themselves where they can be seen and questioned. That is leadership. That is how you get people to buy in. They need to be assured that you as the manager have their interests in mind as you make these decisions -- and that can only be done face to face. Even Lee Iococoa, when he downsized Chysler, went sirectly to the employees and told them what was going on and why. No one was happy -- but at least people got a chnace to talk to the man and gauge his honesty.
That is leadership. We don't have it here.

Miami is NOT a part of the Florida State Universities System - it is a private university. Having the most students neither insures nor prevents UCF from becoming an athletic powerhouse. One does not follow the other.

Date: Dec 3, 2005

cyc46 wrote:

Do you think Papa's John just showed up one day and said hey let me help you build a new stadium. No the AD had to work for it, and they wanted to support a winner.

Papa John's Stadium is also used to host major high school football games. They let the city of Louisville use it, not sure how much they charge the city though.

Date: Dec 4, 2005

Point of Order wrote:

Miami is NOT a part of the Florida State Universities System - it is a private university. Having the most students neither insures nor prevents UCF from becoming an athletic powerhouse. One does not follow the other.

I think SJ's point was that UCF competes successfully for students (as well as other resources) within the area heavily recruited and cultivated by the schools he mentioned; not that UM and UCF were part of the same state administrative system.

Of course, the raw number of students neither assures nor prevents any sort of success, academic or athletic. Assurance and prevention are absolutes. It is more a matter of percentages and probability. Student enrollment is often a bellwether of success. I figure that is the reason SFT is so hellbent on getting USM's numbers up to 20,000.