Frances or Aubrey?

Third Witch wrote:

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Surely no successor president will allow DT to become a Dean?

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There are several scenarios that could lead to this outcome. Allow me to provide some political commentary. First, keep in mind that Dr. D. Thames has strong supporters in two out of the three largest departments in the college (ELR and CISE), including the current associate dean and the chair of ELR. If Dr. Lucas becomes the next President, also keep in mind that she has ties to Clyde ("Bud") Ginn (perhaps the most powerful and feared person behind the scenes at USM at the moment), who is closely allied with the Thames family and the political machine in Jackson. Many big dollar contributors to academics as well as sports (who tend to be local products) would support Dr. D. Thames as Dean. Whether Dr. Lucas would be influenced by these associations is open to speculation. But I see no evidence that the good old boy and girl system at USM is on the wane--and the next President will either be drawn from it, or will have a heck of a time managing it. In sum, having Dr. D. Thames as our next Dean is hardly our of the question.   

stinky cheese man wrote:

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and bud ginn is kin to aubrey lucas's wife.

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And an ELR patron. I have been told be two highly placed officials in the current administration that Dr. Ginn was "very angry" with me (I never found out exactly why). I suspect that this is one of the reasons why events unfolded to place a new associate dean in the college (who is associated with ELR and who is close friend of Dr. Ginn).  

Martray was in Psychology.

Red Headed Stepchild wrote:

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Mitch wrote:  our next Dean   Dr. Mitch: The P in COEP stands for Psychology. P is a very large and significant part of COEP. I don't understand why someone whose degree is from a department of psychology is never given serious consideration for the deanship of COEP. Strange but true.

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Not strange at all. The education folks in the college do not understand psychology, and view it as a drain on college resources. From their perspective, the primary purpose of the college is to train K-12 teachers and principals. I think part of the problem is the misplacement of this unit within COEP. There have been some past moves to place psychology elsewhere, but the odd way the colleges at USM are constructed makes this difficult. To be frank, COEP should be a COE (it doesn't help either E or P to keep this up). What to do with psychology? Because we do not have a college of A&S, perhaps the formation of a college of Social and Behavioral Sciences would make sense. Would the current deans give up the appropriate departments to do this? (e.g., anthropology/sociology; poli sci; geography; social work; psychology; CFS, econ, and so on). Doubtful.  

Oh, one more thing about Martray: BECAUSE is degree was in psychology AND because much of his career was spent in colleges of education dealing with those related issues, Carl was in a very unique position to fully understand psychology AND education. With all due respect to COEP other deans, that was not the case. Carl was THE BEST dean COEP ever had, again, with all due respect to the others.

Edward

Mitch wrote:

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What to do with psychology? Because we do not have a college of A&S, perhaps the formation of a college of Social and Behavioral Sciences would make sense.

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Mitch, during the 10+ years I was head of the deparment of psychology at Virginia Tech, it was in the College of Arts and Sciences. About two years ago, A&S at Virginia Tech was separated into two colleges. At that time, Psychology chose to move to the College of Science and was given its own spacious and well equipped building facing the quadrangle. I was at the dedication ceremony and it was very clear that psychology was welcomed into the College of Science with open arms.The Virginia Tech president gave the dedication address. When I was chair of the department of psychology at USM in the '80s, psychology had a fleeting opportunity to move to either of two existing colleges. I was even instructed to discuss the matter with the departmental faculty as well as with the deans of two of the existing colleges. Psychology received very positive responses, and I thought it was on the verge of a move. But I was then informed that if psychology relocated, COEP would then be too small.

 

 

Yes, school psychology is often housed in departments other than psychology (e.g., Department of Educational Psychology; or Department of Counseling Psychology and School Psychology). And, by virtue of our subject matter and history, school psychology does have ties with education.

However, that being said, some very strong school psychology programs ARE housed in psychology departments. We, in our USM school psychology program, are most happy and comfortable being in a psychology department and wouldn't want it any other way. And I think the strength of our program and faculty productivity speaks for itself. There's probably only about 8 or 10 APA accredited school psychology programs that are in psychology deparmtents....a few that come to mind are Tulane, LSU, South Carolina, Syracuse, Hofstra, Utah State, and of course, USM. But, some other very strong school psychology programs are housed in departments other than psychology....this has to do with our history and evolution (oops, can I use that word here without starting something??......

Dan

 

 

 

Dan Tingstrom wrote:

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Yes, school psychology is often housed in departments other than psychology (e.g., Department of Educational Psychology; or Department of Counseling Psychology and School Psychology). And, by virtue of our subject matter and history, school psychology does have ties with education. However, that being said, some very strong school psychology programs ARE housed in psychology departments. We, in our USM school psychology program, are most happy and comfortable being in a psychology department and wouldn't want it any other way. And I think the strength of our program and faculty productivity speaks for itself. There's probably only about 8 or 10 APA accredited school psychology programs that are in psychology deparmtents....a few that come to mind are Tulane, LSU, South Carolina, Syracuse, Hofstra, Utah State, and of course, USM. But, some other very strong school psychology programs are housed in departments other than psychology....this has to do with our history and evolution (oops, can I use that word here without starting something??...... Dan      

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Yes, and the school psych program at USM is outstanding and a source of pride for the department (maybe this had something to do with Dan's leadership--accompanied by Joe Olmi, Ron Edwards, Lee Hildman, Heather Turner, and others). Our counseling Ph.D. program is nationally ranked. Clinical and experimental have a cadre of superb junior and mid career faculty researchers. Our department has evolved (sorry) in the past decade to be a cohesive unit with A LOT of cross program collaboration and a common vision, a common core curriculum, and a mindset that we watch out for each other's interests and we will fight as a team against invaders. When I came to USM, there were bitter turf wars still being fought in the department, a lot of sneaky "end arounds," and it was far from the place it is now. The quality and quantity of scholarship we produce is as good as, or better than, many of the schools Dan mentioned. Pretty cool.   

Pardon moi, it is not de rigueur to spell de rigueur de rigeur.

Mitch wrote:

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stinky cheese man wrote: and bud ginn is kin to aubrey lucas's wife. And an ELR patron. I have been told be two highly placed officials in the current administration that Dr. Ginn was "very angry" with me (I never found out exactly why). I suspect that this is one of the reasons why events unfolded to place a new associate dean in the college (who is associated with ELR and who is close friend of Dr. Ginn).  

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Mitch is right;  do not underestimate Bud Ginn.  He is very influential both with SFT and with Joachim on the coast.  Not a man to be admired.

A few details would be helpful.

Nits wrote:

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A word in edgewise wrote: Pardon moi, it is not de rigueur to spell de rigueur de rigeur. Well, pardonne-moi, Word, (actually, excuse-moi would be more appropriate)--but be sure your own nits are in order before you start nitpicking.

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Don't get yourself in a snit there nits.  Given that I was correcting myself, I believe a little leeway is order.

I've read with interest the exchange about psychology's "proper" place at the U. The thoughtful exchange between Dan Tingstrom and Mitch Berman reminds me that re-organization would have been better accomplished if deans and faculty had been consulted. Would the process have been slower? Probably. But not necessarily much slower. Would it have resulted in a similar number of colleges? Probably. Seems to me that there is a fairly broadly-held sentiment that a College of Arts and Sciences (which would have included some or all of the current psychology programs) might have been possible, though likely fine arts and (maybe) nursing, too, would have retained their independence. Shoot fire, some bright lass might have even proposed moving the fetterless to and fro going International Dev. program under the Graduate School umbrella and making it truly interdisciplinary. Or perhaps turning it into a program that merited location in COB. Alas . . . old fights.