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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> DO NOT communicate?
Post Info TOPIC: DO NOT communicate?
scandalized

Date:
DO NOT communicate?
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Evans
To: Dr. Jay Grimes
Cc: Betty Boney ; Dr. Shelby Thames ; academic council ; Dr. Joan Exline
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:14 AM
Subject: [Acadcouncil] Re: curriculum prerequisite preparative courses

Jay,
You have been silent and have not replied to my earlier request for assistance in determining how to handle the 124 hour degree plans. You also cancelled the last meeting where we would have discussed more of this. I have taken from your actions in regard to the 124 hour plans that you want our Council to handle this on our own.
In an earlier email to University you have said we must implement the 124 hour degree requirement by fall 2006 even though the Board minutes say that this must be accomplished by fall 2007. We, as a council, have been working diligently to expedite the approval of 124 hour degree plans by this December so that first you and then Dr. Thames could give final approval to those plans for implementation in the fall of 2006. This December date was necessary so that it could be in the new undergraduate bulletin. At the last Academic Council question, Dean Pierce, informed us of his understanding that prerequisite courses were exempt from the 124 hour degree plan. The Council had not heard about this. The council made a motion, seconded and passed the motion for me to seek clarification from the College Board and from you. I did not ask them for that charge but I was charged with seeking clarification.
Joan Exline was at our Council meeting. After the motion was made and passed she did not say to the Council you can not do that. Joan and I had a brief conversation after the meeting. She did not tell me that I had to check with you before I could contact the College Board staff.
Past Council's, on their own, have corresponded with the Board staff to seek clarifications and that is just what I have done. I have done it openly. I notified you of what had been done so you would not be blindsided by the Board staff if they called to talk to you. Our council meeting was open. The minutes of the meeting are open. You or your representative are always welcome at the meetings.
Furthermore, my opinion is that the Academic Council has the right to correspond with the Board staff without consulting you first. I know in the past the board staff has sought us out without going to the administration first. When they contact me, and they will as mandated by board policy, am I supposed to tell them "sorry I can't talk to you our administration forbids it."

Sincerely,
Jeffrey Evans
Chair, Academic Council




----- Original Message -----

From: Dr. Jay Grimes
To: 'Jeffrey Evans'
Cc: Dr. Shelby Thames ; Dr. Joan Exline ; Betty Boney
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: curriculum prerequisite preparative courses

Please DO NOT correspond with the Board office without my permission.



D. Jay Grimes, Ph.D.
Provost and Vice President for Academic Affairs
The University of Southern Mississippi
Hattiesburg Office: (601) 266-5002
Cell: (228) 806-7700
jay.grimes@usm.edu

From: Jeffrey Evans [mailto:jeffrey.evans@usm.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:12 AM
To: academic council
Cc: Dr. Jay Grimes
Subject: Fw: curriculum prerequisite preparative courses



Academic Council Members,



I found the wording that Dr. Pierce referred to in the last Academic Council meeting in regard to prerequisite courses and the 124 hour requirement. It is in the current Board Polices and Bylaws. The url for the policies and bylaws is listed further below and the policies regarding the 124 hour requirement are stated on pages 77-78.



The statement from the board policies about prerequisites is:



"Developmental and curriculum prerequisite preparative courses do not count as part of the 124 credit hour requirement."



As our council asked me to do, I have a request in to the College Board staff for further clarification of what a curriculum prerequisite preparative course can be. Their reply should help guide us in our deliberations. In addition I will ask for Dr. Grimes view of the Board's policy. I will notify you as soon as I hear back.



College Board Policies and Bylaws



http://www.ihl.state.ms.us/admin/downloads/policiesandbylaws.pdf



Sincerely,

Jeffrey Evans

Chair, Academic Council



cc. Jay Grimes

_______________________________________________
Acadcouncil mailing list
Acadcouncil@usm.edu
https://mail.usm.edu/mailman/listinfo/acadcouncil

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Angeline

Date:
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Well, some things never change for this Administration, huh?  If Grimes would do his job, assuming he knows his job, then this would have never happened.  These incompetents who run the Administration cannot be replaced soon enough.

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stephen judd

Date:
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The statement cited by dean Pierce clearly does NOT refer to CORE courses in that CORE courses are not developmental.
 
However, it is possible to interpret that (for example) that a Bio 110 course for majors might possibly be a pre-requisite course if all bio majors are required to take it previous to other bio coursework (in other words as a pre-req).  
 
In that sense I think it possible that some number of hours in a specific discipline might be able to be exempted as re-reqs even though they are core classes. So in that sense, BIO 110 (and presumably 111) might be exempted from the 124 hours rule by being declared prequisites for the bio major while still serving as part of the 38-hour core requirement.
 

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Victorian Lady

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USM was founded in 1910. Here it is 2005 and it still can't seem to get the simplest of procedural matters straight.



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Amy Young

Date:
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I think that the order from Dr. Grimes not to communicate with the IHL board is inappropriate. He has evidently failed to respond to requests for information. USM is a public institution and it is not as if Academic Council was asking for classified information, either from the provost or the IHL. The order not to communicate strikes me as yet another attempt to try to control information but also to form a buffer between the faculty and the board.

It seems like the administration fears any communication between faculty and anyone.

This relates to being totally excluded in the recent visit of the president of SACS. The SGA president communicated with her, but no faculty were invited even to meet and greet!

But most importantly, if Academic Council cannot get enough information to facilitate the moving to 124 credit-hr degrees, what will happen to the curriculum at the university?

Amy Young

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coastliner

Date:
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I hope we do not get caught up in the SMALL THINGS.

We need to look at the overall picture

Don" t Sweat the small stuff... 128 vs. 124...what is that percentage?

So....remember our real goal.....and we all know what it is.

We need to be looking at the larger picture. What is our furture? What we we need to consider is whether the sale or lease of the GP campus is the best approach.

It is without question, the Gulf Park questiion could be solved by the state or federal government taking the GP campus and making into green space....something that is really needed on the coast.

The best alternative is still to sell or lease the the GP campus...and establish a Univeristies Center.. out on I-10 at Woolmarket, ....with all state and national institutions deleivering on a needs basis to the the STILL beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast.



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Red Herring

Date:
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This thread is not about 4 credits.



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stephen judd

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coastliner wrote:

I hope we do not get caught up in the SMALL THINGS. We need to look at the overall picture Don" t Sweat the small stuff... 128 vs. 124...what is that percentage? So....remember our real goal.....and we all know what it is. We need to be looking at the larger picture. What is our furture? What we we need to consider is whether the sale or lease of the GP campus is the best approach. It is without question, the Gulf Park questiion could be solved by the state or federal government taking the GP campus and making into green space....something that is really needed on the coast. The best alternative is still to sell or lease the the GP campus...and establish a Univeristies Center.. out on I-10 at Woolmarket, ....with all state and national institutions deleivering on a needs basis to the the STILL beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast.

Actually, the small stuff is exactly what we need to sweat -- the small details of academic life and how we perform them are exactly what defines academia.


It is the administration that, in fact, implies through its actions that the BIG picture is far more important than the details. In fact, the devil is eactly in the details -- paying attention to the details is what ensures institutional integrity.


Amy, I'm in agreement with you that Academic Council is raising an appropriate question. I think it is very clear that there is a great deal of nervousness not only about faculty contact with the IHL, but also with the potential ramifications if Meredith and Company get wind of anything that looks academically sleezy. I'm sure Grimes is quite aware that the Board's commissars are quite sensitive to any attempt to get around the boundaries it is establishing -- it is NOT a good thing that USM seems to be perpetually trying to crawl under the fence, so to speak. I don't necessarily agree with the Board's reasoning on some of these new limits it is creating, but we keep looking like a cur dog trying to compete at a dog show.


When I came here, I was really proud that this was not only a roll up your shirtsleeves university, but I felt as thought the people who worked here understood and cared about institutional integrity and honored academic process by placing a high value on honesty in that process. In light of the several scandals we have been through in the past three years that have greatly undermined those values, I am concerned that anything we do which is not completely above board will draw the wrong kind of attention.


 



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coastliner

Date:
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number 1

look to our new president and who he or she is going to be. i am sitlll betiting on the milsaps connection.

number 2

one of the greatest challlenges for higher ed in MS is, What are we going to do with that damn coast bunch?

Katrina could not beat us down....we are here and to be dealt with.



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Abdullah the Butcher

Date:
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coastliner wrote:
number 1

look to our new president and who he or she is going to be. i am sitlll betiting on the milsaps connection.

number 2

one of the greatest challlenges for higher ed in MS is, What are we going to do with that damn coast bunch?

Katrina could not beat us down....we are here and to be dealt with.




ROFLMAO.

Your schtick is wearing thin, coastliner. The coast campus will be rebuilt with whatever funds are made available. You will still offer only a fraction of the main campus. You will still be an arm of USM...a branch campus...a vestigal organ that just hasn't totally evolved away yet.

Hattiesburg enrollment is up after Katrina. Hattiesburg population is up after Katrina. The coast still struggles to get started with the rebuilding process, and the coast campus' prospects for success decline with each passing day. Once every USM degree is offered online, there will be no need for the coast campus or some of its faculty. I think you fall in the expendable category.

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Customer Service Representative

Date:
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Abdullah the Butcher wrote:

Once every USM degree is offered online, there will be no need for the coast campus or some of its faculty
If every USM degree is offered online, there will be no need for the Hattiesburg campus either. Online offerings could be offered from D'Lo or Bangladesh just as well as it could be offered from the Hub City.

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Googler

Date:
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scandalized wrote:

In an earlier email to University you have said we must implement the 124 hour degree requirement by fall 2006 even though the Board minutes say that this must be accomplished by fall 2007.

The policy says "in the fall 2007 semester," not "by fall 2007."


504.0101 HOURS TO DEGREE


This policy takes effect for all undergraduate students


first enrolled in the fall 2007 semester and thereafter.


(BT Minutes, 7/2004)

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LVN

Date:
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I have a great idea. You guys could communicate with me, tell me whatever it is, and then I could communicate that on to the IHL. As I am a private citizen, Dr. Grimes can't tell any of you not to talk to me, and certainly can't tell me not to talk to the IHL.

Ridiculous? Absolutely. Just as ridiculous as telling any faculty member that they need permission to contact any public official. These people get scarier and scarier.

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Fieldhand

Date:
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LVN wrote:

I have a great idea. You guys could communicate with me, tell me whatever it is, and then I could communicate that on to the IHL. As I am a private citizen, Dr. Grimes can't tell any of you not to talk to me, and certainly can't tell me not to talk to the IHL. Ridiculous? Absolutely. Just as ridiculous as telling any faculty member that they need permission to contact any public official. These people get scarier and scarier.
Dos you think anybody can go to de big house and talks to de man?  WoooWe you sore not been on dis her plantation long. Has ya?

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Fourth Estate

Date:
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LVN wrote:

I have a great idea. You guys could communicate with me, tell me whatever it is, and then I could communicate that on to the IHL. As I am a private citizen, Dr. Grimes can't tell any of you not to talk to me, and certainly can't tell me not to talk to the IHL. Ridiculous? Absolutely. Just as ridiculous as telling any faculty member that they need permission to contact any public official. These people get scarier and scarier.
nm

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