Still think it was a good idea to open the gulf campus? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Nov 7, 2005

RE: Still think it was a good idea to open the gulf campus?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

lostit, I lost everything I owned in Camille. I was luckier this time, but still had significant damage to my home and am still camped out with relatives. I lived in New Orleans for a long time and have dear friends in Chalmette. I can have any attitude I want to.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

to Gulf Park alum: I am aware of the Gulf Park Trustee clause regarding the GP campus being used of educational purposes. The trustees can change their minds or some minor educational setting might remain on the GP campus to fulfill that requirement. Just look at the Jones Park situation in Gulfport. There are precedents that have been set and there are ways the state could lease or sell the Gulf Park campus.

Sell or lease the GP campus, plus the acreage in Pass Christian (H. Hill), reap the benefits and invest in the property near I-10 (Woolmarket exit) that would be more accesible to all coast residents. Build a new Universities Center, with public and private institutions from across the state and nation leasing space to offer degree programs, establish research centers, and provide service to the Gulf South.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Coastliner, you have raised this issue persistently. Would you please direct readers to successfully operated multi-university centers that would serve as a model for the concept you are championing?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

lostit wrote:

the faculty and staff of the USM coast campus, many of whom I know would be personally devastated if the campus were not rebuilt in its current location. Also, I believe that I am one of those Mississippi tax payers and I would be happy to pay for the new campus. Maybe you don't understand because it's not YOUR community and YOUR campus that was destroyed.

Given the fact that Southern Miss has a string of makeshift sites up and down the coast I wouldn't think there would be an objection to a new beauitiful consolidated campus eing constructed in a safer location near I-10. What you suggest is very much like fourth or fifth generation landowners saying "let's not sell the farm because great, great, great, great, grandpa plowed it 100 years ago."

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Sentimental Me wrote:

Given the fact that Southern Miss has a string of makeshift sites up and down the coast I wouldn't think there would be an objection to a new beauitiful consolidated campus being constructed in a safer location near I-10. What you suggest is very much like fourth or fifth generation landowners saying "let's not sell the farm because great, great, great, great, grandpa plowed it 100 years ago."

I agree wholehearedly. Rather than spend a pittance of money rebuilding the campus on a site that is likely to be hit again, let's puts a reasonable amount of money into the thing and build one that will sustain hurricanes even if it costs more.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

As a citizen of Long Beach, the main issue I have heard concerning whether USM reopens the Gulf Park Campus or relocates somewhere else in Harrison County has to do with insurance. It is my understanding that the insurance company which has been underwriting coverage of the Gulf Park Campus has told USM that it will no longer do so. And with out someone to insure the buildings, the federal government will not contribute funds toward the rebuilding/repair of uninsured buildings, thus USM's need to consider relocating the campus.

It is also my understanding the Gulf Park Campus is in large part on 16th section land (do not know this as a fact) and therefore not in a position to sell it to condo developers for large sums of money.

While many in Long Beach would like to see it grow into a “college town” the impact to Long Beach on moving the campus would likely be minimal as it does not pay taxes to the City.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Coast resident is, sadly, right on the money. I think anyone who thinks that the Gulf Park campus will be rebuilt is deluding themselves. Like so much of the coast's landmarks, its gone, and it isn't coming back. This is the second time the campus has been destroyed in 36 years; Camille did in the old Gulf Park College for women.

I love the coast, and Gulf Park was one of its brightest gems. One of my favorite memories is pulling out of the campus on hwy 90 after a night class and seeing the lights of the shrimp boats out on the dark horizon. It pains me to write this, but I can't see a university leader realistically investing in such a location.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Learning in Retirement wrote:

Coastliner, you have raised this issue persistently. Would you please direct readers to successfully operated multi-university centers that would serve as a model for the concept you are championing?

There is one in Houston.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Every community does not need a four-year school. Our community colleges serve very nicely. So why should a four-year college exist only 70 miles from another four-year college?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Cozy and Close wrote:

Every community does not need a four-year school. Our community colleges serve very nicely. So why should a four-year college exist only 70 miles from another four-year college?

Power and politics, man, power and politics.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

If the sole goal of having a public university on the coast is that of making affordable higher education available to the coast residents, wouldn't it be more economical for the state to supplement the difference between the higher Tulane/Wm. Carey tuition and the lower USM tuition, and let Tulane and Wm. Carey do the job? Coast residents could choose an academic program at Tulane or at Wm. Carey and the state would make up the higher tuition difference. The state would have no buildings and grounds to maintain, no faculty or staff to pay, and no bookstore, cafeteria, library, or other ancillary service to provide. All the state would have to pay would be the tuition difference. The overall savings would be well worth it. Wouldn't you coastal residents prefer that?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

thanks Invictus. you can put this on your CV as research. also, don't forget to put this on your Faculty Activity Report....if you are a member of the faculty.

so take a look at the Houston model and others....they are out there.

we coastians have had some other things (the big K) on our minds for a number of weeks. we are now ready to move ahead. there are other alternatives other than USM being in charge of the destiny for the higher education needs for the Gulf Coast.

so, sell or lease the GP campus and the HH property in PC...reinvest...start over with a new vision with what would be best for the gulf coast.

a Universities Center, bringing the resources of many in state and out of state institurions, seems like an alternative that needs to be explored.

are we too parochial to consider something else?

ebay was new. microsoft....ipods...digital video...all are relatively new on the horizion.

mississippians should be jumping at the opportunity to deliver higher educational experiences for a major population center on the Gulf Coast, at a new and reduced rate....

the plan...sell or lease the Gulf Park Campus...secure a new site....build facilities that would support a needs assessment driven higher education delivery system for the Gulf Coast....teaching, research, and service.

there are new ways of doing things. mississippians have not always been on the forefront of doing things in a new way.

a Universities Center concept, located close to I-10, would be a memorial to Katrina and to the recovery that is taking place.

USM H would then be relieved to rebuild its campus in the berg.

explore it. build it and they will come...all kinds of institutions...for teaching, research, and service....to an area that needs some help.

think in a new box.....

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Does the coast in the end need a campus?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

I'll be fascinated to find out who "coastliner" really is. Obviously new to the board, or he would know more about Invictus. Any ideas?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

to little old lady

i am whom i am...or as woody hayes said...who i am....

but, the real message is to examine some new ideas...are you too old for that?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

coastliner wrote:

a Universities Center, bringing the resources of many in state and out of state institurions, seems like an alternative

coastliner, let's assume your wildest dreams have become true. Pretend there is a Universities Center on the coast built to your specifications. The location is one of your choosing. The programs and administration have been hand picked by you (with or without appropriate consultation). Let's further assume that Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and the University of Southern Mississippi are part of that consortium, each offering fully accredited degree programs. You have a choice to receive your degree from any of these three institutions (the state already prescribes identical admissions standards which we'll assume remain the same). I have two questions for you: (1) From which of those three universities would you prefer that your degree come from? (2) Would this model be the death knoll for USM on the coast?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Coast Resident wrote:

As a citizen of Long Beach, the main issue I have heard concerning whether USM reopens the Gulf Park Campus or relocates somewhere else in Harrison County has to do with insurance. It is my understanding that the insurance company which has been underwriting coverage of the Gulf Park Campus has told USM that it will no longer do so.

The only insurance was FEMA flood insurance. Unless FEMA maps change, I don't see this as a problem. There is also a risk-pool from IHL, but again, that does not seem to be germane to this rumor which, at best, is probably just conjecture...

It is also my understanding the Gulf Park Campus is in large part on 16th section land (do not know this as a fact) and therefore not in a position to sell it to condo developers for large sums of money.

Not so. One small parcel (currently not used by the University) is 16th section. Rest was private property (owned formerly by Gulf Park private finishing school for women, then sold to state, then "deeded" to USM by the IHL when the campus opened over 30 years ago. Smaller parcels were later purchased by USM from private landowners who sold homes, etc.

While many in Long Beach would like to see it grow into a “college town” the impact to Long Beach on moving the campus would likely be minimal as it does not pay taxes to the City.

A very short-sighted view and one, thankfully, most leaders with whom I've spoken in the area disagree. The lack of property tax revenue is of minimal impact relative to the large amount of campus-related or generated sales tax revenues, plus property taxes generated as a result of the campus being there when faculty, staff, and students purchase homes or rent in apartments nearby when they would otherwise live elsewhere.

No one seems yet to have mentioned the very important fact that the City government of LongBeach, plus city of Gulfport, plus Harrison County, all contributed (I believe total was $300k) UPFRONT money to the construction of the classroom and library buildings at Gulf Park.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

One in Tulsa as well.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Cozy and Close wrote:
So why should a four-year college exist only 70 miles from another four-year college?

I dunno. Why don't you ask the IHL board why North Mississippi needs DSU, MVSU, MUW, MSU & UM all located within an hour & change of each other?

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Aladdin's Lamp wrote:

I have two questions for you: (1) From which of those three universities would you prefer that your degree come from? (2) Would this model be the death knoll for USM on the coast?

Of course, coastliner's mileage may vary, but here's my take:

(1) The institution from which a given student would receive his/her degree would depend on the student's major. The universities center concept precludes duplication of programs, so a student majoring in, say, English would get a degree from the institution that was responsible for the English program. Presumably, a student majoring in forestry or engineering would get a degree from MSU. I could see JSU making a very solid case for taking over the criminal justice program on the Coast...

(2) This model would not be the death knell for USM on the Coast. In fact, it might put USM in the position of having to bolster the programs it now has at USM-GC or risk having to give them up to one of its "sister insitutitons." Frankly, I can't see UM or MSU wanting to put a lot of resources into programs that USM already has simply for logistical reasons.

Date: Nov 7, 2005

Coast Resident wrote:

it is my understanding that the insurance company which has been underwriting coverage of the Gulf Park Campus has told USM that it will no longer do so. And with out someone to insure the buildings, the federal government will not contribute funds toward the rebuilding/repair of uninsured buildings, thus USM's need to consider relocating the campus.

There are many staff and faculty members on the coast who have a "right to know" discussions on the future of USM's coast campus. You mention that the insurance will no longer underwrite coverage. It sounds like discussions have been taking place behind closed doors in smoke filled rooms. Why not let those most involved (e.g., faculty, staff, students) in on those discussions? I'm not suggesting that they attend such discussions, but they darn well should be accurately informed of the content of those discussions.

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Invictus wrote:

Cozy and Close wrote:So why should a four-year college exist only 70 miles from another four-year college? I dunno. Why don't you ask the IHL board why North Mississippi needs DSU, MVSU, MUW, MSU & UM all located within an hour & change of each other?

Maybe a new campus should be constructed in Magnoia, Mississippi. We would then have South Mississippi's "Research Triangle" to compete with our Northern neighbors: Hattiesburg, Long Beach, and Magnolia

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Cozy and Close wrote:

Every community does not need a four-year school. Our community colleges serve very nicely. So why should a four-year college exist only 70 miles from another four-year college?

This is the type of logic that gets Mississipians criticized for a lack of intellectualism (to put it nicely). Not all students have such low aspirations as to find that a community college meets all of their educational needs. Also, have you ever been to a city such as New York, Boston, or even New Orleans for that matter? These cities have universities literally right next door to each other. Further, many people are speaking as if having a university campus is somehow financially de-stabilizing for a community, when in reality universities feed a city's economy in many ways, not only through faculty, staff, and students buying and renting property, but also by bringing in federal and state grant money to create and fund new programs for individuals in the community. I thought this was a message board for faculty members, correct? Don't you realize what an opportunity we have as faculty to enrich our communities through research and other programs?

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Three's Company wrote:

Maybe a new campus should be constructed in Magnoia, Mississippi. We would then have South Mississippi's "Research Triangle" to compete with our Northern neighbors: Hattiesburg, Long Beach, and Magnolia

I thought that was the purpose of the USM-D'Lo campus.

Date: Nov 8, 2005

lostit wrote:
Close wrote: Every community does not need a four-year school. Our community
have you ever been to a city such as New York, Boston, or even New Orleans for that matter? These cities have universities literally right next door to each other.

Those universities sitting next door to each other are private universities........even Louisiana is not stupid enough to put its state universities side-by-side. Loyola and Tulane are adjacent to each other but they are not state schools. And yes, lostit, I've occasionally wandered out of the boondocks to see them tall buildings.

Date: Nov 8, 2005

A few approximate distances for your consideration...

Cleveland -> Oxford: 100 mi
Cleveland -> Starkville: 130 mi
Itta Bena -> Oxford: 100 mi
Columbus -> Starkville: 25 mi
Lorman -> Hattiesburg: 170 mi
Jackson -> Hattiesburg: 90 mi
Long Beach -> Hattiesburg: 75 mi
Gautier -> Hattiesburg: 100 mi

I don't see the Gulf Coast as being any "closer & cozier" to Hattiesburg than any of the "North Mississippi All Stars" are to each other. What I do see is a situation where North Mississippians have more geographic access to higher education than do South Mississippians. And if you factor in per capita access, the difference is astounding.

One other point: Universities employ a lot of people. And despite the fact that university professors in this state are grievously underpaid, they generally make better salaries than, say, sawmill workers. The higher density of state universities in North Mississippi also translates into a larger share of state salaries. Again, figure that on a per capita population basis & the inequities take on a much broader scope.

Given population distribution in the state, income levels & industrialization, it seems to me that South Mississippians pay a lot of taxes to support the "close & cozy" institutions north of Highway 80, but when anyone suggests that South Mississippi might deserve more access to higher education, we're reminded that "Mississippi already has too many universities."

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Invictus wrote:

A few approximate distances for your consideration...

Cleveland -> Oxford: 100 mi
Cleveland -> Starkville: 130 mi
Itta Bena -> Oxford: 100 mi
Columbus -> Starkville: 25 mi
Lorman -> Hattiesburg: 170 mi
Jackson -> Hattiesburg: 90 mi
Long Beach -> Hattiesburg: 75 mi
Gautier -> Hattiesburg: 100 mi

I don't see the Gulf Coast as being any "closer & cozier" to Hattiesburg than any of the "North Mississippi All Stars" are to each other. What I do see is a situation where North Mississippians have more geographic access to higher education than do South Mississippians. And if you factor in per capita access, the difference is astounding.

One other point: Universities employ a lot of people. And despite the fact that university professors in this state are grievously underpaid, they generally make better salaries than, say, sawmill workers. The higher density of state universities in North Mississippi also translates into a larger share of state salaries. Again, figure that on a per capita population basis & the inequities take on a much broader scope.

Given population distribution in the state, income levels & industrialization, it seems to me that South Mississippians pay a lot of taxes to support the "close & cozy" institutions north of Highway 80, but when anyone suggests that South Mississippi might deserve more access to higher education, we're reminded that "Mississippi already has too many universities."

Invictus,

The definition of insanity is repeating the same activity over and over again but expecting a different result.

It was a mistake to locate MSU, Ole Miss, the Valley, Delta State, etc., so close together. However, investment in physical plant is expensive, so these decisions will not be reversed.

We should not make the same mistake again.

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Yea, that's it Mississippi. You’ll need to put an educational institution in every town. Yea! And call them universities. Yea, that’ll work. You can get everyone educated; just give them all diplomas. Yea, that'll work fine. I hope you don't expect the folks in Tylertown to drive all the way to a university. We need a university there too. I can see it now, “The Tylertown Tycoons”! Economic Development at its best. Don’t forget, the nation needs you in 50th place as a perfect example of what not to do.

Date: Nov 8, 2005

Bulldog Rick wrote:

The definition of insanity is repeating the same activity over and over again but expecting a different result.

The definition of insanity would have to include locating the engineering school in Oktibbeha County, the buckle of Mississippi's industrial belt, doncha think, "Bulldog?"