H.A.-USM on Lowest Tier - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 19, 2005

H.A.-USM on Lowest Tier

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Now IF USM should ever move back to 3rd tier....lets remember Joan's comments

Date: Aug 19, 2005

The Exline quotes in today's Hattiesburg American are weird! I guess peer review means nothing! Who does she think our peers are? I suppose she thinks they are unfair idiots or something. Instead, she needs to realize that USM is not highly regarded by people who really know and understand higher education.

When you don't like your reviews, blame the reviewer.

Now I will continue to enjoy the remainder of my summer.

Amy Young

Date: Aug 19, 2005

I have lived in Hattiesburg for nearly 40 years and have known many hundreds of faculty members,administrators,and students. Based on these relationships,I think the level 4 ranking is accurate. The one-time level 3 rating was probably a mistake.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Exline's comments from the on-line version of this Hattiesburg American article are puzzling, and hard to believe:

"While being highly ranked is always nice, Southern Miss faculty and staff are focusing on many other performance indicators not included in the magazine's methodology," Exline said. "Examples include excellence in teaching, funded research projects, contributions to economic development, operating efficiency, student achievements and learning outcomes."

Excellence in teaching? If losing the bulk of your experienced tenured faculty in a 3-year period, and replacing them with new Assistant Professors marks excellence in teaching, then why aren't other American universities following suit?

Economic development? That straw-man argument keeps reappearing, but the reality is to the Thames henchcrew, "economic development" means abolition of fundamental research and the establishment of a contract-oriented "service economy" professoriate.

Operating efficiency? Has anyone been able to monitor the expansion of the administration, concurrent with the decrease in line-item faculty? Or is this more of the same old argument that "nine colleges into five" meant efficiency. How many times can they spend the ostensible $2 million in "savings" before somebody actually has to account for the money?

Learning outcomes? Let's see now, the "online student evaluations of teaching" were an unmitigated disaster, so what could Joan be referring to?

SO glad to be out of there, and my sympathies to my former associates still trapped in "Prison Camp Shelby."

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Amy Young wrote:

weird!

I seem to recall that when USM dropped to fourth tier last year, word from the administration was that USM was pleased to be ranked with schools like Michigan and Alabama. When we did no better this year, are we now being told that a reason we didn't do very good is because our peers judged us as not very good? Ever seen a cat trying to find its tail?

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Hattiesburg resident wrote:

I have lived in Hattiesburg for nearly 40 years and have known many hundreds of faculty members,administrators,and students. Based on these relationships,I think the level 4 ranking is accurate. The one-time level 3 rating was probably a mistake.

It really bothers me that people in these parts don’t seem to recognize when a claim is highly implausible.

Remember when Robin Robinson (or whatever here name is) claimed that since assuming her IHL post she had received 75 letters regarding the Thames regime, all of which praised him?

And some regular contributors to this site maintain that the 85% graduation rate for our football players is due to selective recruiting of superior students.

And now someone asks us to believe that he or she has known “many hundreds” of USM professors, administrators and students.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

If the poster means " many hundreds'" in a collective sense,that is very feasible in 40 years time-a couple of dozen a year or less. There are probably nearly 100,000 different people who were part of the university community during that time.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

I don't know any of those lazy turds at USM, but I'm darn sure sending my kid to anywhere but USM.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Oak Grove resident wrote:

I don't know any of those lazy turds at USM, but I'm darn sure sending my kid to anywhere but USM.

I teach at USM and so am one of your neighbors and a "lazy turd." Let me tell ya - it ain't the faculty who are lazy, incompetent, behind-the-times, and anti-USM - its the Administration and the old Dome Gnome hisself who is.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Another Oak Grove Resident wrote:

Oak Grove resident wrote:
I don't know any of those lazy turds at USM, but I'm darn sure sending my kid to anywhere but USM.
I teach at USM and so am one of your neighbors and a "lazy turd." Let me tell ya - it ain't the faculty who are lazy, incompetent, behind-the-times, and anti-USM - its the Administration and the old Dome Gnome hisself who is.

As someone said weeks ago on this board, SFT has done what he set out to do: demonize the faculty who saw from the start that he would do every bit as bad a job as he has done.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

You can have your double-wide back. We want a real school to set up shop here.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

I second this comment. Everyone hopes that one day USM will once again have a real leader at the university.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

D'Lo resident wrote:

You can have your double-wide back. We want a real school to set up shop here.

Dear Sir:

I beg your pardon. We've barely been open for a year and we've only awarded about a thousand degrees, but we're doing just fine. If we'd had time to get our paperwork in to those folks at U.S. News, I'm absolutely certain USM at D'Lo would be ranked right up there with the best in Mississippi. As soon as I find me a Provost all these reports will get done on time. Just watch for us next year. We'll make you proud.

One more thing. We don't appreciate that remark about our double-wide administration building. It was professionally decorated by Mrs. Johnson herself, featuring the USM color scheme. I'm especially proud of our black and gold shag carpeting. Anyway, we all have to start somewhere and it's only temporary, until we raise enough capital to construct a little bitty version of the USM dome, along with our new stadium and sky boxes. It'll be located right here on scenic Highway 49, soon as we're able to buy the old D'Lo truckstop.

I've got Miss Emma and LVN working on the fund raising committee right now. I'll tell you, those ladies are whip-smart, and they really know how to get things done. We may be breaking ground by Thanksgiving. Stop by and see us any time. My door is always open.

Sincerely yours,

W.J. Johnson, Professor of Economic Development and Chancellor, USM at D'Lo

Date: Aug 19, 2005

W.J. Johnson wrote:

D'Lo resident wrote: You can have your double-wide back. We want a real school to set up shop here. Dear Sir: I beg your pardon. We've barely been open for a year and we've only awarded about a thousand degrees, but we're doing just fine. If we'd had time to get our paperwork in to those folks at U.S. News, I'm absolutely certain USM at D'Lo would be ranked right up there with the best in Mississippi. As soon as I find me a Provost all these reports will get done on time. Just watch for us next year. We'll make you proud. One more thing. We don't appreciate that remark about our double-wide administration building. It was professionally decorated by Mrs. Johnson herself, featuring the USM color scheme. I'm especially proud of our black and gold shag carpeting. Anyway, we all have to start somewhere and it's only temporary, until we raise enough capital to construct a little bitty version of the USM dome, along with our new stadium and sky boxes. It'll be located right here on scenic Highway 49, soon as we're able to buy the old D'Lo truckstop. I've got Miss Emma and LVN working on the fund raising committee right now. I'll tell you, those ladies are whip-smart, and they really know how to get things done. We may be breaking ground by Thanksgiving. Stop by and see us any time. My door is always open. Sincerely yours, W.J. Johnson, Professor of Economic Development and Chancellor, USM at D'Lo

Dr. Johnson,

Thank you, as always, for your efforts. You can't go wrong with Miss Emma and LVN. Hoooooooooooo-doggie, them gals knows how to raise some funds!

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Jethro wrote:

Dr. Johnson, Thank you, as always, for your efforts. You can't go wrong with Miss Emma and LVN. Hoooooooooooo-doggie, them gals knows how to raise some funds!

After they finish the mission in D'Lo, Emma and LVN should be dispatched to Hattiesburg to do something about USM's lame excuse for an endowment. They could probably hold a series of weekend car washes and double it in a month. Less than 1/3 the endowment of William Carey College, sheesh.

Date: Aug 19, 2005

I do not wash cars. Even my own very often

However, what's this about the D'Lo campus being decorated by Mrs. Johnson? Wasn't our own Mlle. de Guerre supposed to be the Provost/Decorator or some such title? Mr. Johnson, I warn you -- it's dangerous to trifle with ladies' areas of responsibilites!! You should be sure there is room for you to hide under your desk if things turn ugly. However, it seems, that rather than myself, our Miss Angleterre would make a top-notch administrator. After all, she keeps up with Mlle. and not everyone could!

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Staistician wrote:

If the poster means " many hundreds'" in a collective sense,that is very feasible in 40 years time-a couple of dozen a year or less. There are probably nearly 100,000 different people who were part of the university community during that time.

"Staistician",

I assume from their choice of name that “Hattiesburg Resident” is neither a professor nor administrator. Given this, it is highly improbable that this person has cultivated “relationships” with many hundreds of students, even over a period of 40 years. Likewise, having “relationships” with many hundreds of administrators or professors is highly unlikely. Remember that “Hattiesburg Resident” is claiming relationships adequate for the formation of strong opinions about USM, so I assume he is not talking about brief and casual relationships.

Now by your own reckoning, this guy has been forging relationships with USM professors, administrators, and students at the rate of 24 or so a year. (If it has only been 10 or so a year, that doesn’t add up to many hundreds.) And he’s gotten to know these people well enough to surmise that USM should never have been placed in the third tier according to the USN&WR criteria?

You know, if “Hattiesburg Resident” had merely claimed to know “many” USM students, administrators, and professors, and based on knowing these folks decided USM is fourth rate, I would not have bothered to respond. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, particularly an opinion based on experience. But this joker is making an absurd claim to give his opinion weight, and I do find this objectionable.

Now when you reflect on it, do you still think his claim is plausible?

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

Now when you reflect on it, do you still think his claim is plausible?

The specific claim he made was "I think the level 4 ranking is accurate. The one-time level 3 rating was probably a mistake." Do I think his claim is plausible? My answer to your question is "Yep. I sure do."

Date: Aug 19, 2005

Hattiesburg Resident claims that

(1) He has lived in Hattiesburg for nearly 40 years;
(2) He has known "many hundreds" of faculty members, administrators, and students.

We can't know if (1) is true. (2) is almost certainly false, and this is the claim to which I object.

That we are in tier 4 in the USN&WR rankings is simply a matter of fact. He says nothing to support his speculation that our inclusion in "level 3" at one time was a mistake.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Considering that the University of Mississippi & Mississippi State University are Tier 3 and that those institutions are not on SACS probation, enjoy considerably more external funding, have a history of preferential treatment (right or wrong) by the governing board & both currently have competent "upper-level" administrations, I would conclude that USM is lucky as hell to be in the 4th Tier.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Just a question for someone much more knowledgable than me. What has happened to MU and MSUs peer review scores over the last several years? Is there any discernible trend?

As an aside, I was pretty surpised to see JSU in the 4th tier. I'm wondering what caused that. Has JSU really gotten better? Not knocking them in any sense, just curious.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Q&A wrote:

I was pretty surpised to see JSU in the 4th tier. I'm wondering what caused that. Has JSU really gotten better?

There is no 5th tier.

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Do you mean that we are at the bottom of all of the colleges and universitites in the entire country?

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Geesh! wrote:
Do you mean that we are at the bottom of all of the colleges and universitites in the entire country?

Not exactly. There are plenty of colleges & universities that aren't ranked at all. But among those that are, yeah, USM's pretty much at the bottom of the vat. Since the 4th tier is not ranked internally, there is no quantitative difference between USM & JSU.

Date: Aug 22, 2005

plus, we're in the fourth tier of what USNWR calls "national universities." they also rate masters universities (only offer masters as their highest degrees ) and universities that don't give graduate degrees.

yep, we're no different than JSU, or San Diego State, or Southern Illinois University-Carbondale, or University of South Florida, or Kent State University.

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Let me kiss your tier away.

Date: Aug 22, 2005

stinky cheese man wrote:

plus, we're in the fourth tier of what USNWR calls "national universities." they also rate masters universities (only offer masters as their highest degrees ) and universities that don't give graduate degrees.

yep, we're no different than JSU, or San Diego State, or Southern Illinois University-Carbondale, or University of South Florida, or Kent State University.

Actually, those schools look pretty attractive right now....

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Disk Q wrote:

Actually, those schools look pretty attractive right now....

Took the words right out my mouth. I have friends at some of these schools. 5 years ago they would have preferred to be here. My how the tables have turned.

Date: Aug 22, 2005

Fire Down Below wrote:

Q&A wrote: There is no 5th tier.

Now, now. We shouldn't let this stop us! We can be 1st into the 5th quartile of the country's university. Without peer! Southern Miss to the bottom!