Interim Coast Provost Named - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 19, 2005

RE: Interim Coast Provost Named

Date: Aug 19, 2005

hey center line....

sorry about the red herring reference..

the coast does not need institutions offering classes...

they need multiple intitutions offering needed degrees......Educenter Gulf Coast!!!!!!!!!!!at a much more cost effective basis than any institution in the state is now delivering.

center line, we do not need a pogey boat spill with this one......how could multiple institutions delivering needed degree programs not be than the present arrangement????????

Any suggestions for the advisory committee....still taking names.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

and age really does not make any difference. look at your president....look at Reagan...

Well, info was just...providing info.

And one is flabbergasted at these two examples at least: SFT, who has demonstrably destroyed the reputation of a good public institution and RR, who (some of us think) was showing signs of Alzheimer's even before his second term. [I will pass on a discussion of the role of an ailing Pope vs. that of a university administrator facing serious challenges.]

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

the coast does not need institutions offering classes... they need multiple intitutions offering needed degrees......Educenter Gulf Coast!!!!!!!!!!!

With all due respect, what you are describing sounds more like an automobile row than a univesity. Independent dealers would hawk their own brand and compete for customers. Tulane and William Carey are already there and doing very well. If show windows of Mississippi State, Ole Miss and the other state schools are also established down there USM might turn into the used car lot.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

the coast does not need institutions offering classes... they need multiple intitutions offering needed degrees......Educenter Gulf Coast!!!!!!!!!!!

If the multiple institution model that you say is needed on the coast actually came to fruition, which school would students choose to award their degree? Which would you choose? Would USM be the school of choice?

Date: Aug 20, 2005

hey cafeteria model...

each institution would award their own degrees...students could take courses from many institutions and transfer to the institution of their choice on the multi-instiitution campus to be built at the Wool Market exit on I-10......appropriate policies and procedures would control duplication of offerings....MGCCC would have a major role in offerings for years 1 and 2....in state and out of state institutions, both public and private would be sought based on the needs and the demand for degree programs....and graduate education would be receive major emphasis.......education is too important for anyone to have a monopoly....and then stymie and suffocate a major population center, as usm has done for 30 years.....

it's time for a change.....

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

hey cafeteria model... each institution would award their own degrees...students could take courses from many institutions and transfer to the institution of their choice on the multi-instiitution campus to be built at the Wool Market exit on I-10......appropriate policies and procedures would control duplication of offerings....MGCCC would have a major role in offerings for years 1 and 2....in state and out of state institutions, both public and private would be sought based on the needs and the demand for degree programs....and graduate education would be receive major emphasis.......education is too important for anyone to have a monopoly....and then stymie and suffocate a major population center, as usm has done for 30 years..... it's time for a change.....

You mean like the huge and opulent multi institution McCampuses in some of the oil rich emirates and kingdoms of the Persian Gulf? Go for it coastliner. We all know that us mean ole folks in the 'patch are just itching to keep you rich oil folks on the Gulf down.

Hey, I'm really curious about this. What's with the random number generated ellipses?

Date: Aug 20, 2005

Coastliner, you wrote, among other things,

"in state and out of state institutions, both public and private would be sought based on the needs and the demand for degree programs....and graduate education would be receive major emphasis."

I'm wondering if you could clarify your statement. Do you mean that university programs should be exquisitely responsive to passing market pressures? Successful programs, and particularly graduate programs, take a long time to grow and maintain.

Jameela

Date: Aug 20, 2005

Jamella,

No new undergraduate or graduate programs would not be developed. The point of delivery would change. The degree programs already exist at other institutions.

For example, well established degree programs, such as: engineering from Miss. State, Law from Cumberland, journalism from U. of Texas, Hotel and Resturant Mgt from UNLV, Space Degree Programs from UH ....could all be delivered in another setting.....at the Wool Market exit on I-10, at NSTL, at USMGP, and at the Beau Rivage.

I am not saying these are the degree programs that are needed. I am saying that could be determined, based on need and interest, and the cooperative agreement could be made by IHL with a myraid of institutions.

There are many institutions that are willing to be innovative and responsive. Again, the degree programs already exist. ....only the delivery point would change for the cooperating institutions.

.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

Thanks for the clarification, Coastliner. Hmm. I don't see something like that being feasible. Universities can't be administered on best-case scenarios, and the proposal, although sufficiently bold and innovative, also sounds like a scheduling nightmare. The number of institutions would multiply exponentially the number of things that could and would go wrong.

Just my two stodgy cents.

JL

Date: Aug 20, 2005

my head is spinning....i thought you only wanted state universities represented

your model has reached out to surrounding states (nevada?)

i am curious about law degrees supplied by cumerland?? in your view is that a law school on the level of ..... say ole miss?

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

hey cafeteria model... each institution would award their own degrees...students could take courses from many institutions and transfer to the institution of their choice on the multi-instiitution campus to be built at the Wool Market exit on I-10......

What a great idea you have! I'll go for it. It would be like buying a shopping mall gift certificate that could be redeemed at any store in the mall. I'll take my courses at USM and then transfer them to Tulane. Actually, your idea is a little bit odd.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

Pick-and-Choose wrote:

Actually, your idea is a little bit odd.

It's a lot bit odd.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

I was going to comment that the proposal of Coastliner would omit all science and engineering courses that require labs. Silly me, I just found out that engineering labs are already being taught online. Yes, folks, they have online labs where the professor runs the apparatus and generates the data. Students only analyze the data, but never actually touch equipment, calibrate equipment and learn from all of the problems real world experiments generate. And they say we are giving students a university education.

With China coming on strong, I give our technology advantage 20-30 years tops. We are killing the "goose that laid the golden egg".

Date: Aug 20, 2005

Scientist wrote:

I was going to comment that the proposal of Coastliner would omit all science and engineering courses that require labs. Silly me, I just found out that engineering labs are already being taught online. Yes, folks, they have online labs where the professor runs the apparatus and generates the data. Students only analyze the data, but never actually touch equipment, calibrate equipment and learn from all of the problems real world experiments generate. And they say we are giving students a university education.

With China coming on strong, I give our technology advantage 20-30 years tops. We are killing the "goose that laid the golden egg".

No wonder you had such a hard time with those Intelligent Design folks, Scientist. If you are right it will only get worse.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

some good observations folks. i certainly don't have all the answere....but i do know there is a better solution out there for the Gulf Coast.

the instiitutions that i listed were examples only. if there was any way of getting the Cumberland Law School into a cooperative agreement...it should be done. Check them out....they are far more prestigious than the Rebel bunch.

Effficiency, no football, or other athletic programs....none of the other high cost things that go along with a regular univeristy campus....the taxpayers get a break...we have streamlined delivery...using facilities such as NSTL and the casiino faciilities, the natural gulf for mariine science, and bring in top rated degree programs from public and private instiitutions from across the nation.

sell the usmgp campus to the condo developers.....build a new modern state of the art EDUCENTER near I-10 at the Woolmarket esit.....somebody of importance should have some land to sell in that vicinity.....maybe?

tell me why this would not be better for the coast and for Mississippi than what we are presently NOT doing.

i am far more civil on Saturday night than at other times during the week. i apologize to SJ for the comment....in another post...

Date: Aug 20, 2005

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/lawindex_brief.php

couldnt get the above hot, but you can google and get info

ole miss #85(2nd tier)

cumberland no ranking for 3rd tier

cuberland is a fine law school i am sure, just as jackson school of law, i mean mississippi college is a good law school. i am puzzled why you mention samford(cumberland). why not loyola, heck of a lot closer to woolmarket exit than b'ham...

speaking of woolmarket exit you mention "near i-10 at woolmarket exit" in almost every post.....is that the center of the mississippi gulf coast?

i find the concept of woomarket university very interesting, while most people are of the opinion we have about 4 public universities too many, you seem to feel we need to add expense of a university row

Date: Aug 20, 2005

If the multiple institution model that you say is needed on the coast actually came to fruition, which school would students choose to award their degree? Which would you choose? Would USM be the school of choice?

A variation of this was offered in the late 90s when there was a Masters degree in business offered by all the accredited b schools in the state over the interactive video network. An extensive effort was made to survey businesses and prospective students across the state with regard to their needs, and the curriculum designed accordingly. All schools taught courses, but students could choose the institution that would award the degree. Guess which institutions student primarily choose? Ole Miss and MSU !

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

No new undergraduate or graduate programs would not be developed. The point of delivery would change.

coastliner,

I'd like to comment on your use of the term "point of delivery" in your coast education propsoal. Education is not content delivery. Your use of that terminology suggests a misunderstanding of the importance of a community of scholars and and student interaction outside the formal classroom. That is also the fallacy of online education. Scientist has described the pitiful manner with which online science courses are sometimes managed online.

Date: Aug 20, 2005

coastliner wrote:

bring in top rated degree programs from public and private instiitutions from across the nation. sell the usmgp campus to the condo developers.....build a new modern state of the art EDUCENTER near I-10 at the Woolmarket esit.....

Even if your idea was feasible, coastliner, why would Mississippi ever select the gulf coast for such an endeavor? Jackson is the higher education center of the state, as well as the geographical center. Millsaps, Jackson State, Mississippi College, the Mississippi College Law School, the University Medical Center, and two community colleges are in and around Jackson. I doubt that they would want any part of such a consortium or they would have already banned together.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

jackson already has the institutiions.....the coast really has "none" except the community college....so therefore there is a need for a new center on the coast....so its citizens can finally be served......the reason the Ridgeland Rd. center was not successful was tha there were already institutions in Jackson....not the same on the coast....

Date: Aug 21, 2005

If the Coast has "none" (no higher ed opportunity, that is) why does USM offer over 30 UG degrees, 15 masters and 3 doctoral programs? Why is it serving over 2200 students with over 80 full time, resident, mostly tenured or tenure track faculty? Classes (face to face, not online) are offered from about 10 or 11 am until 9 pm M-Thur and some Fridays and Saturdays. Two new degrees have been approved for the campus to begin 2006. What's so terrible about what we are doing at the Coast? Sure, USM could do more, but the Coast campus has grown its faculty from about 40 to the current 80+ members in less than three years. That sounds like a plan to me.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

coastliner wrote:

jackson already has the institutiions.....the coast really has "none" except the community college....

coastliner, the coast is the site of more than the community college. There's a school called The University of Southern Mississippi with a campus in Long Beach and locations elsewhere on the coast. William Carey is there too. And don't forget Tulane that's there also. If you don't like any of those, there is The University of South Alabama not very far down the road. I think they might still give instate tuition rates to residents from some of our coast counties. I can't recall its name, but I think I read about an online operation that has its base of operations on the coast. The coast residents have more higher education opportunities than is found at any Mississippi location with the possible exception of Jackson.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

maybe too little too late....for usm

the ihl should sell the usm gulf coast campus to the condo developers....the present facilities could be "redesigned" into luxury condos and additional luxury high rise condos could be buillt.....the small auditorium could be used as a cultural and educational center....the libray could become a community library for the condo dwellers and the coast community.....this would satisfy the old Gulf Park College stiipulation that the site be used for 'educational purposes...several hundred condos could be located on this site.....the tax base would be enhanced for Long Beach and Harrison County...

Selling the usmgp site would give the ihl substantial funds to start the new "Educenter" at the Woolmarket exit on I-10....a center with numerous colleges and universities, public anc private, from in-state and out of state, entering into cooperative agreements with the ihl to provide needed degree programs on the

tie the Huckelberry Hill property into the land sale for condos....waterfront access would be an ideal place for developing a nature oriented luxury condo community...

Date: Aug 21, 2005

coastliner wrote:

No new undergraduate or graduate programs would not be developed. The point of delivery would change. The degree programs already exist at other institutions. For example, well established degree programs, such as: engineering from Miss. State, Law from Cumberland, journalism from U. of Texas, Hotel and Resturant Mgt from UNLV, Space Degree Programs from UH ....could all be delivered in another setting.....at the Wool Market exit on I-10, at NSTL.....There are many institutions that are willing to be innovative and responsive. Again, the degree programs already exist. ....only the delivery point would change for the cooperating institutions. .

There are dozens of institutions that already offer online degree programs. Their progams are available to anybody that has a computer. It takes only a small office to coordinate those programs. What's the advantage of the coast serving as its locus? It's like a call center. When one contacts a call center and speaks to a customer service representative it is virtually impossible to tell if the customer service representative talking to you is located in Itta Bena, Indianapolis, or India.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Then the MSSM, Master of Science in Systems Management, was allowed to have a slow death by the IHL board and all the universities in the system. The reason? Money. The graduate directors in the colleges of business at the various participating universities were to rotate administrative oversight so no one university would be required to have on a permanent basis the tasks of sending out brochures, handling admission applications, textbooks, etc. After one year the individual universities began to whine that the program was too costly for them to absorb the additional costs of brochures, etc. for a year. [I will let others identify the costs and how real this issue was]. After two years MSU stepped up and absorbed the program into one of their existing graduate programs (or so I heard at the time). I have yet to understand what costs each university was complaining about; however I did hear that once the IHL initiated program was setup and running the IHL board commitment to fund the program did shift to the individual universities to be absorbed at the university level (one faculty member for one course per year). Don't you just love the cooperation of all within this state?

Date: Aug 21, 2005

We at MSU are very aware of thngs that need to be done in the AG bizness in the state...we need to get all our hogs and cows statewide, including the coast, in the best shape for 2005.....please help us in this endeavor....

Date: Aug 21, 2005

msu replier wrote:

we need to get all our hogs and cows statewide, including the coast, in the best shape for 2005.....please help us in this endeavor....

We've already got your Kudzu. Y'all keep them hogs and pigs fenced in.

Date: Aug 21, 2005

Disk Q wrote:

Again, those who defend this hire are conveniently ignoring the lack of credentials.

Will the new associate provost have faculty status? Will she be an instant associate professor out of the box?

Date: Aug 22, 2005

I find it strange that the education people would have a teaching position vacant one week before classes begin. Did they advertise? It appears to me that her school superintendent position was a troubled one. Was USM unable to find a person with more "Provost like" credentials? Was the position created specifically for her? That's a normal question one might ask when any position is filled by someone with Hattiesburg ties and a local degree.