and the beat goes on.... - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 1, 2005

and the beat goes on....

Date: Aug 1, 2005

The Hattiesburg American is already lining up to coronate Thames, should his SACS response go over well in Atlanta.

The paper should be crowning the faculty for its work on this under horrific circumstances. Let's hope it sees the truth.

Date: Aug 1, 2005

I wonder if what the HA "sees" and what it's allowed to print are the same at all. Let's not forget that newspapers live and die by advertising. Just pick up an issue and see who's footing the bill over there.

Date: Aug 1, 2005

walt wrote:

Now that the new IHL Commissioner has been named, and his salary outed, the anti--ed establishment in MS is back at work, questionning Meredith's Georgia past and criticizing his (below-the-competition) salary. All is a day's work, I suppose. The SACS report is done, and full of "truths" we all trust. The next 45-60 days are, arguably, the most important in the Thames presidency. If SACS reports are successful, the push for renewal by Klumb and his gang will be on full steam. The Hattiesburg American is already lining up to coronate Thames, should his SACS response go over well in Atlanta. Now, we hear from another poster on this board about plans for revving up the old Warren Paving group for the final push. I've spent some time this Summer writing about Thames' victories, major and minor. Consider the departure of Robert Campbell from this site a minor one. The next two fights are bigger --- the SACS story above and the 2006 USNWR rankings, due out in just about 3 weeks.

If you are referring Ronnie Agnew's piece in 7/31 C/L, you must be a little confused.

Ronnie is NOT anti education, I would say to the contrary.

Most of us were aware of Meredith's past(Georgia) and you can expect pretty much the same when he lands in Jackson. The IHL in its usual dysfunctional manner made a big deal of a pay cut for Tom, but acutally "a pay cut is better than zero pay"

I think you can safely bet Tom will either push USM to the bottom(could be a little tricky, for several reasons) or in order to try and restore his good name, he will be hell on any infaction at any state university. If he takes the latter course, SFT won't be here until the cofffe is cold

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Having had some prior experience with TM in another state, let me say that I fully expect him to establish the pecking order in Mississippi Higher education: (1) Ole Miss, (2) Mississippi State, (3(T)) USM and Jackson State, and (5) Alcorn, Delta State, et. al.

Meredith is of the "conspiracy theory" mold through-and-through. He will make it his mission to raise UM and MSU to 2nd tier, regardless of what it costs USM. Only then will he consider allowing USM to elevate to 3rd tier status.

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Doubting Thomas wrote:

Having had some prior experience with TM in another state, let me say that I fully expect him to establish the pecking order in Mississippi Higher education: (1) Ole Miss, (2) Mississippi State, (3(T)) USM and Jackson State, and (5) Alcorn, Delta State, et. al.

Meredith is of the "conspiracy theory" mold through-and-through. He will make it his mission to raise UM and MSU to 2nd tier, regardless of what it costs USM. Only then will he consider allowing USM to elevate to 3rd tier status.

I don't think he has to establish this pecking order. It already exists. It has existed as long as long as Mississippi has had more than one university. (And although it pains me to say it, there are compelling arguments for the "pecking order.") Meredith will simply protect the status quo. I don't think he would've been hired otherwise.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

Invictus wrote:

I don't think he has to establish this pecking order. It already exists. It has existed as long as long as Mississippi has had more than one university. (And although it pains me to say it, there are compelling arguments for the "pecking order.") Meredith will simply protect the status quo. I don't think he would've been hired otherwise.

The order I mentioned is and has always been a whole lot more de facto than it is de jure. While there are some written policies that lead to the ordering, I believe Meredith has been brought in to cement this system, including facilitating written policies and practices that will legitimize this ranking system. I look for an "action plan," "strategic plan," or some other such document to surface that describes the vision for higher ed in MS...and it won't include taking USM "to the top." Once the document is in place, then things can really start to happen. Meredith can point to the document and say, "I'm just following the approved plan." I don't think the IHL could have gotten away with hiring an uncredentialed boob to do this job --- they needed someone with a suitable resume to carry it out.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

someone reminded me that when Meredith was on the IHL staff he proposed a plan that would consolidate programs of various types on particular campuses. UM would get liberal arts programs, MSU would get science and engineering, we would get the arts and education. don't remember how other programs would be allocated (i'm sure UM would get law). with tight budgets could be a popular with the board.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

I know this has been mentioned before, but for many years Ole Miss had its own special trustee position on the IHL board. So the pecking order wasn't just de facto. This, of course, preceded our present-day fixation on strategic plans, but the intent was the same.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

stinky cheese man wrote:

someone reminded me that when Meredith was on the IHL staff he proposed a plan that would consolidate programs of various types on particular campuses. UM would get liberal arts programs, MSU would get science and engineering, we would get the arts and education.

If IHL actually tried to implement this type of plan today, all of the universities and community colleges would get to offer a casino management program, and it would undoubtedly be offered as an online program also.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

I believe Meredith will seek to elevate UM and MSU to a higher tier status. This only makes sense. USM can hope for stability in administration and transparency in decision making, but it will need to become comfortable with its place, which shouldn't be too hard with the exodus of faculty and staff, newbies won't know the difference. I hate to say it, if I were running higher ed, I would also shoot to get at least one school very well known and respected. It's just not ever going to be USM. Once things settle down, USM can be a solid and pleasent school again, a better fit for some students. This isn't bad, it's always been the way it is.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

MGD wrote:

I believe Meredith will seek to elevate UM and MSU to a higher tier status. This only makes sense. USM can hope for stability in administration and transparency in decision making, but it will need to become comfortable with its place, which shouldn't be too hard with the exodus of faculty and staff, newbies won't know the difference. I hate to say it, if I were running higher ed, I would also shoot to get at least one school very well known and respected. It's just not ever going to be USM. Once things settle down, USM can be a solid and pleasent school again, a better fit for some students. This isn't bad, it's always been the way it is.

In that sense, the great Thames experiment will have succeeded, and USM will be forever changed. Klumb and his group won in the end.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

MGD wrote:

It's just not ever going to be USM. Once things settle down, USM can be a solid and pleasent school again, a better fit for some students.

With all respect, MGD, I couldn't disagree more. A university and a department should be encouraged and allowed to be all it can be. There are many universities that were slouch schools at one time, but they are now high in the hierarchy in their respective states. I'm sure we can all name several of them off the top of our heads. Earmarking one school, or even one or a few disciplines, for excellence is very shorsighted. Excellence begins at the departmental level. If a department recruits an outstanding faculty it will achieve excellence and national recognition. If all or most departments recruit an outstanding faculty, the university itself will achieve excellence and national recognition. It all has to do with level of aspiration and effective recruiting. A governing board should not be permitted to tell a school "You will remain at or near the bottom of the pack." The taxpayers of South Mississippi deserve far more than merely having a "pleasant school" in their midst. USM held the "pleasant" status for many decades and look where it got you. It got you little or no respect from the IHL or from other significant bodies. It doesn't have to be that way.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

This is off-topic, but I just wanted you to know, Rodney, how much you are missed. I hope you're getting more respect in your new location; you certainly deserve it.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

I agree with Rodney. And for one brief shining moment, we all felt excellence was within reach. With all its problems, USM was a good place to be. The future seemed to be ours.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

It seems like we've cussed & discussed this topic about a gazillion times before on this board. After much (depressing) thought, I think I've arrived at what the IHL board really sees as USM's mission. USM is the educational Wal-Mart of Mississippi. It provides a relatively cheap, convenient set of degree programs for people who don't want to shop at the upscale stores, so to speak. This also has implications for how the employees are handled...

Date: Aug 2, 2005

Invictus wrote:

I think I've arrived at what the IHL board really sees as USM's mission. USM is the educational Wal-Mart of Mississippi. It provides a relatively cheap, convenient set of degree programs for people who don't want to shop at the upscale stores

You are right, Invictus. Your statement and mine are not mutually exclusive by any means. The IHL has conveniently placed weak leaders at the top for many years. When one of the lower administators and their productive faculty members developed a high level of aspiration for their discipline, they were out like a light. If it weren't for that type of administrative mentality, the recollection of former senator that ". . . for one brief shining moment, we all felt excellence was within reach" could still be true today. That is why the presidential search will be so important. If the IHL selects a candidate whose aspiration for the university is no greater than that of the college board or of previous administrations, USM will be dead in the water. As The future that former senator described can still be ours. But not if the IHL continues to make maladaptive decisions for the university.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

USM is the educational Wal-Mart of Mississippi. It provides a relatively cheap, convenient set of degree programs for people who don't want to shop at the upscale stores, so to speak. There's one big difference-the people at Wal-Mart work for their pay. You don't see them crowding the golf courses and hitting the casinos all during the week.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

Plebian wrote:

USM is the educational Wal-Mart of Mississippi. It provides a relatively cheap, convenient set of degree programs for people who don't want to shop at the upscale stores, so to speak. There's one big difference-the people at Wal-Mart work for their pay. You don't see them crowding the golf courses and hitting the casinos all during the week.

I don't see USM employees crowding the golf courses & hitting the casinos all during the week, because I'm at work. What are you doing, Plebian? Living off the public dole?

But leaving aside the obvious (that Plebian is trolling) for the moment, it is arguable that Wal-Mart employees aren't paid for their work. Wal-Mart is legendary for keeping employees just under the workload at which they'd have to receive benefits. It's exactly the same philosophy that has the majority of sections in a department taught by adjuncts.

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with USM providing affordable, convenient education opportunities for the people of South Mississippi. It's been doing that for decades. But there is something wrong when the entire management model becomes Wal-Martized.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

Invictus wrote:
USM is the educational Wal-Mart of Mississippi. It provides a relatively cheap, convenient set of degree programs for people who don't want to shop at the upscale stores, so to speak. This also has implications for how the employees are handled...

Yeah, if the IHL models USM on Wal-MArt, we employees are in a world of trouble, folks. It means we can expect to be supplanted by cheap foreign labor, much of it provided by illegal immigrants, or have our jobs outsourced to places like Kerala, India. It means we can expect to be paid so little that Human Resources will conduct workshops in how to apply for food stamps and federal housing assistance, that the AAUP (looks like a union to me, Sam) will have its officers and members fired, that women will not only hit the glass ceiling but just generally have to get used to sexual harassment and bias as a fact of life. It means that most of the day to day work of the place will be done by part-timers who get neither benefits nor respect. And it means that a huge amount of company revenue will be spent convincing the public that we're really the best thing since sliced bread.

But hey, what goes around, come around, right? In other words if the Wal-Mart model works like gangbusters in the so-called real world, who's to say it's not time to try it at work places that are traditionally a little more, well, genteel. Think about this the next time you hand over some of your long green to Wal-Mart: you just gave your nod of approval to a system that wants to take away your benefits, your security, your dignity.

What's going on at USM ain't that bad yet, for sure. But you're fooling yourselves if you think that the way Shelboo and the Paving Company Posse treat academics isn't part of the Wal-Marting of the entire fugging world . . .

Date: Aug 2, 2005

reformatting what off the plantation wrote:

It means we can expect to be supplanted by cheap foreign labor...

It means we can expect to be paid so little that Human Resources will conduct workshops in how to apply for food stamps and federal housing assistance...

...that the AAUP (looks like a union to me, Sam) will have its officers and members fired...

...that women will not only hit the glass ceiling but just generally have to get used to sexual harassment and bias as a fact of life.

...most of the day to day work of the place will be done by part-timers who get neither benefits nor respect.

...a huge amount of company revenue will be spent convincing the public that we're really the best thing since sliced bread.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

off the plantation wrote:

Yeah, if the IHL models USM on Wal-MArt, we employees are in a world of trouble, folks. It means we can expect to be supplanted by cheap foreign labor, much of it provided by illegal immigrants, or have our jobs outsourced to places like Kerala, India. It means we can expect to be paid so little that Human Resources will conduct workshops in how to apply for food stamps and federal housing assistance, that the AAUP (looks like a union to me, Sam) will have its officers and members fired, that women will not only hit the glass ceiling but just generally have to get used to sexual harassment and bias as a fact of life. It means that most of the day to day work of the place will be done by part-timers who get neither benefits nor respect. And it means that a huge amount of company revenue will be spent convincing the public that we're really the best thing since sliced bread.
But hey, what goes around, come around, right? In other words if the Wal-Mart model works like gangbusters in the so-called real world, who's to say it's not time to try it at work places that are traditionally a little more, well, genteel. Think about this the next time you hand over some of your long green to Wal-Mart: you just gave your nod of approval to a system that wants to take away your benefits, your security, your dignity.
What's going on at USM ain't that bad yet, for sure. But you're fooling yourselves if you think that the way Shelboo and the Paving Company Posse treat academics isn't part of the Wal-Marting of the entire fugging world . . .

You got this figgered out, OtP. The only way to combat this $hit is to educate people and get them to VOTE!! But something seems to be haywire in the system.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

off the plantation wrote:

Yeah, if the IHL models USM on Wal-MArt, we employees are in a world of trouble, folks. It means we can expect to be supplanted by cheap foreign labor, much of it provided by illegal immigrants, or have our jobs outsourced to places like Kerala, India. It means we can expect to be paid so little that Human Resources will conduct workshops in how to apply for food stamps and federal housing assistance, that the AAUP (looks like a union to me, Sam) will have its officers and members fired, that women will not only hit the glass ceiling but just generally have to get used to sexual harassment and bias as a fact of life. It means that most of the day to day work of the place will be done by part-timers who get neither benefits nor respect. And it means that a huge amount of company revenue will be spent convincing the public that we're really the best thing since sliced bread. But hey, what goes around, come around, right? In other words if the Wal-Mart model works like gangbusters in the so-called real world, who's to say it's not time to try it at work places that are traditionally a little more, well, genteel. Think about this the next time you hand over some of your long green to Wal-Mart: you just gave your nod of approval to a system that wants to take away your benefits, your security, your dignity. What's going on at USM ain't that bad yet, for sure. But you're fooling yourselves if you think that the way Shelboo and the Paving Company Posse treat academics isn't part of the Wal-Marting of the entire fugging world . . .

The lead article by Dennis Cauchon on page 5A of today's USA Today points out that Wal-Mart workers pay $2u73 a month for the company's family medical coverage and get fewer benefits than Medicaid. Many workers choose Medicaid over insurance offered by their employers because, in addition to offering more benefits, it is less expensive.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

WalM-Arts & Sciences wrote:

Wal-Mart workers pay $2u73 a month for the company's family medical coverage

$273 a month

Date: Aug 2, 2005

And there you have the reasons neither I nor my family members shop there, nor do we own their stock. Just waiting for the new Target. In the meantime I buy my blue hair rinse at Corner Market.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

And my Pepsi products.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

LIttle old lady wrote:

Just waiting for the new Target.

Sears and K-Mart are merging. Maybe that will provide another alternative to Wal-Mart.

Date: Aug 2, 2005

MergerMania wrote:

LIttle old lady wrote:
Just waiting for the new Target.
Sears and K-Mart are merging. Maybe that will provide another alternative to Wal-Mart.

S-Mart? Then, when they start running sweat shops in Malaysia, we can call them "S-Mart Asses," to cop a phrase from DT.

Or will Southern Miss jump on the bandwagon first & become "USMart?"

Date: Aug 3, 2005

If you're looking to Target for a better alternative, you may find that it's not much better than Wal-Mart. Target sells foreign-made products. Target employs a lot of part-timers (no benefits). Target does not have the poor public record of treatment of employees, but it does have a poor record of supporting community and charitable organizations (e.g., The Salvation Army wasn't allowed to even place kettles outside of Target stores last year, much less have bell ringers.). Plus, Target is a foreign-owned company.

The best solution is to find a locally-owned business and determine where it stands on the SFT/faculty issue.

Date: Aug 3, 2005

Doubting Thomas wrote:

Target is a foreign-owned company..

Of course Mississippi welcomes Nissan with open arms, just as Alabama welcomed Mercedes and Tennessee welcomed Toyota.