CL, 7/31/05: K-12 vs. Hi Ed - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 31, 2005

CL, 7/31/05: K-12 vs. Hi Ed

Date: Jul 31, 2005

The issue I have with the concept of a "free public education" is that it is not and has never been free. Historically, there was a real cost to education. Children who attended school had to forego much of the agricultural work that the country's economy was built on -- which is why we have the academic year structured as it is. Families had to make sacrifices to let their kids attend school, even if the books and teachers were "free" to them. Along with these costs came accountability: grades, discipline, attendance, conduct.

Nowadays, there is no cost to attending school. What else would these kids be doing? Playing video games? Causing trouble? Nowadays, school is free daycare with free meals and free babysitters. The "touchy-feely" crowd has removed discipline from schools and turned them into mini third-world countries.

Every dollar the state puts toward this sham of a system is just one more dollar flushed down the drain. The only solution is to take control out of the hands of the politicians and put it back in the hands of the educators AND tell parents to expect that bad behavior and bad attitudes will result in CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.

Date: Jul 31, 2005

I have to say that I agree with most of what DT says here, although I kinda suspect s/he posted it to see what kind of "groupthink" rise he could get out of this message board.

That said, I think I'll go listen to some Bela Fleck...

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Invictus wrote:

I have to say that I agree with most of what DT says here, although I kinda suspect s/he posted it to see what kind of "groupthink" rise he could get out of this message board.

That said, I think I'll go listen to some Bela Fleck...

Invictus! CORPORAL PUNISHMENT!!?? Oh, please. I hope after some sleep you will re-think this post.

That said, who is Bela Fleck--any kin to Bela Bartok?

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Voter wrote:

Invictus wrote:
I have to say that I agree with most of what DT says here, although I kinda suspect s/he posted it to see what kind of "groupthink" rise he could get out of this message board.

That said, I think I'll go listen to some Bela Fleck...

Invictus! CORPORAL PUNISHMENT!!?? Oh, please. I hope after some sleep you will re-think this post.

That said, who is Bela Fleck--any kin to Bela Bartok?

Invictus,

Just stating my true opinion.

DT

Voter,

Google this: "Bela Fleck and the Flecktones" and enjoy the banjo-driven music you find.

DT

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Voter wrote:

Invictus! CORPORAL PUNISHMENT!!?? Oh, please. I hope after some sleep you will re-think this post.

That said, who is Bela Fleck--any kin to Bela Bartok?

Yes, I favor corporal punishment for certain offenses, just as I favor capital punishment of other offenses. For example, students who stick gum under their desks should be given 15 minutes on the rack. Students who "lip off" to teachers should be given 10 lashes with a cat o'nine tails. Thumbscrews, bamboo shoots, all those techniques have their places in public education.

Reflecting on my own misspent youth, I recall being "paddled" exactly once at school Seventh grade. I limped home, my father called the teacher & found out why I'd been paddled & I then discovered that my parents weren't limited by the "three lick rule." (I didn't dress out in gym for a week, so something good came of it.) My crime? Using profanity in the school yard. These days, a parent would file charges against the teacher, or if the parent acted as mine did, the kid would file charges against the parent.

Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
Cause I’m in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I’ll lay your soul to waste
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name

Date: Aug 1, 2005

Invictus wrote:

Yes, I favor corporal punishment for certain offenses, just as I favor capital punishment of other offenses.

Even discounting the subsequent hyperbole, it seems obvious that you mean both of these statements. Oh, well, it's the summer slump--so here goes:

a. Violence begets violence.

b. (cf. a.) There is no rational defense of the death penalty--just ask Don Cabana, who has thrown the switch on a couple of death row inmates.

Physical punishment inflicted upon an insecure adolescent (especially a male) is an almost sure-fire way to unleash resentment, humiliation, and hatred which can smoulder and intensify over years until it finally erupts (often as violence) onto any convenient target--perhaps even the person who administered the "punishment" in the first place.
Use of physical punishment at school strikes me as an act of desperation on the part of the administration;it really functions as a training device (albeit inadvertent) for criminal violence, even terrorism.

So, Invictus, given your retrograde posture on these matters, I will certainly read your other posts with a more critical eye. Hey, it's never too late to repent--consider it.