Psychology question - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Psychology question

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Poor recruiting.

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Outside Observer wrote:

Does USM still have a phd in I/O Psych? If not, why ?

This program is still on the books, but admissions to it have been suspended. I believe I posted about this at length on another thread. This was a decision made at the department level. The department does have thriving doctoral programs in experimental, school, clinical, and counseling, and these graduates do very well. Can I ask why you are interested in this?

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Just curious. I remember that there was such a program in years past and wondered what happened to it. It would seem to me to be a popular program.

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Outside Observer wrote:

Just curious. I remember that there was such a program in years past and wondered what happened to it. It would seem to me to be a popular program.

From the perspective of student applicants? Perhaps. But I can tell you that my home program, clinical psychology, receives far more highly qualified students each year interested in the doctoral degree in psychology than I/O ever did. Over the past five years, completed (not partial) applications for clinical have ranged from about 80-100 for 5-9 spots. I/O received a fraction of that. Average credentials for a class of admitted students in clinical were usually a hair better than I/O (though there students were darn good on average also).

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Actually, the demise of the I/O program (or temporary suspension of admissions), or however you want to couch it, had nothing to do with the number of student applicants nor the quality of students in the program. It had to do with the difficulty of recruiting and retaining faculty for that program, among other issues.

I/O faculty tend to be able to command higher salaries even within psychology. Many times I/O programs are run jointly between Psychology departments and schools of business. And, unless I/O faculty are offered salaries that are consistent with the current market for I/O faculty at other universities, they can be difficult to recruit and retain, as they have many other options available to them in business and industry making substantially higher salaries.

Edward

Date: Jul 20, 2005

Check out Clemson's COB site for a perfect example. Psychology is in the COB. A tad unusual but not without some advantages. RC should be able to fill in the details.

Date: Jul 21, 2005

avery wrote:

Check out Clemson's COB site for a perfect example. Psychology is in the COB.

Take another look and you'll see that Clemson's Psychology Department is in the College of Business and Behavioral Science, along with some some other traditionally Liberal Arts and Sciences disciplines such as Political Science, Sociology, etc.

Date: Jul 21, 2005

Edward wrote:

Actually, the demise of the I/O program (or temporary suspension of admissions), or however you want to couch it, had nothing to do with the number of student applicants nor the quality of students in the program. It had to do with the difficulty of recruiting and retaining faculty for that program, among other issues. I/O faculty tend to be able to command higher salaries even within psychology. Many times I/O programs are run jointly between Psychology departments and schools of business. And, unless I/O faculty are offered salaries that are consistent with the current market for I/O faculty at other universities, they can be difficult to recruit and retain, as they have many other options available to them in business and industry making substantially higher salaries. Edward

Difficulty recruiting, yes, but not for the reasons you cite (I'd rather not point fingers at the dearly departed on this board). We lost quite a few I/O good candidates who went to other institutions for comparable salaries and prospered. I think the "market" salary argument is overblown based on those experiences and data from APA salary surveys (it is a factor, but a small factor). The I/O faculty who left USM went on to other academic positions, not into industry. They received bumps in salary, but of no greater magnitude than psychologists in other disciplines who left USM for other positions over the years.

From my experience, I/O folks can range from those who professionally identify with psychology, and those who identify with business. The model will drive the type of research they do, and fit with a department. The training director was the latter rather than the former.

Many really top end research oriented I/O love (though they won't admit it to keep the market myth going) being a tenured faculty. They get the stability and perks of an academic position, while raking in big consulting bucks (often making more than hacks who work strictly for a corporation). In industry, I/O folks are often the first to be downsized in an economic recession, and private consulting can dry up quickly. So many of the best and brightest do end up in academics (look at Texas A&M's program).

Date: Jul 21, 2005

Ok, so if wasn't a problem with recruiting and retaining faculty, AND if it wasn't due to numbers or quality of student applicants, then what WAS the reason for the demise of the I/O program?

Edward

Date: Jul 21, 2005

Mitch wrote:

Difficulty recruiting, yes, but not for the reasons you cite (I'd rather not point fingers at the dearly departed on this board).

Are you saying the outgoing I/O faculty impaired recruiting as they were leaving?

Date: Jul 21, 2005

Edward wrote:

Ok, so if wasn't a problem with recruiting and retaining faculty, AND if it wasn't due to numbers or quality of student applicants, then what WAS the reason for the demise of the I/O program? Edward

Perhaps I was not clear. It was a problem with recruiting and retaining faculty. My position is that market forces specific to I/O were not the primary reason for this.

Date: Jul 21, 2005

Ma Bell wrote:

Mitch wrote: Difficulty recruiting, yes, but not for the reasons you cite (I'd rather not point fingers at the dearly departed on this board).

Are you saying the outgoing I/O faculty impaired recruiting as they were leaving?

No comment.

Date: Jul 25, 2005

I believe both Tennessee's and Georgia Tech's I/O programs are in Business Schools. They used to be long ago when I was applying to programs.

Also, the most recent TIP (July 2005) examined the research productivity of I/O programs. It only listed 60 programs and USM was not one of them.

Date: Jul 27, 2005

Hell, yeah! Let's move I/O into the b-school! That will give me a few more "management" types for my already oversized management department!

hd

Date: Jul 27, 2005

Doty Bird Extinct?? wrote:

Hell, yeah! Let's move I/O into the b-school!

A psych program should be in a psych department. A better idea would to let one of the other universities like Mississippi State have it.

Date: Jul 27, 2005

UM and MSU can have all the programs they want, I only want that hot new Casino Management degree. Smokin, sizzlin...this will save USM from total irrlevancy. My money's on gold and black. All of it. Not.