Doty around still - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Doty around still

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Interesting twist dIPstick - Thames, Grimes, and Malone wanted an Executive MBA in a market that wouldn't support one - but you know that.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Word is that some of the new young faculty are saying that they were misled during their interview/visit process by CoB administrators and faculty. Had they known how bad things were, they would be elsewhere. This is a dangerous situation USM has put itself in.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Welcome Back to the Hellhole wrote:

Interesting twist dIPstick - Thames, Grimes, and Malone wanted an Executive MBA in a market that wouldn't support one - but you know that.

As a point of fact, Doty wants this hybrid MBA really badly. He once again has a "Syracuse Model" in mind.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

bad penny wrote:

Word is that some of the new young faculty are saying that they were misled during their interview/visit process by CoB administrators and faculty. Had they known how bad things were, they would be elsewhere. This is a dangerous situation USM has put itself in.

Your post is interesting. I retain a lawyer who is almost completely specialized in higher education legal issues. He has advised me to steer clear of the hiring process at USM right now (i.e., during the SFT mire) because of the possibility of things you mention above. He said that I should slip into candidates' research presentations (if I must) and exit immediately after.

My department hired someone last year who I didn't speak to until he arrived on campus this past year as a new assistant prof. Just following my lawyer's advice, and glad I did.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

USM Profs beware wrote:

I retain a lawyer who is almost completely specialized in higher education legal issues. He has advised me to steer clear of the hiring process at USM right now (i.e., during the SFT mire) because of the possibility of things you mention above....He said that I should slip into candidates' research presentations (if I must) and exit immediately after.

Are you suggesting that just listening to a job candidate's interview presentation could put you at risk?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Or maybe you're saying listen but don't talk.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

One call, that's all wrote:

Are you suggesting that just listening to a job candidate's interview presentation could put you at risk?

I think the poster was suggesting that if a person encourages a candidate to come under false pretenses the person might subsequently be liable. Thus it is better not to say anything to the candidate that might later be actionable.

We have a LOT of lawyers down here where I live, so I can ask around to see what they think.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

This is an honest question: Why is an executive mba program considered a bad thing in the COB. All the big schools have them. Or is the adminstration proposing something different?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

All the big schools can attract executives from a city, region, or across the country. Companies will usually pay.

Does south Mississippi have that many executives who would want this degree? Would their companies pay for it? No and no. Do they want a USM degree? No. Tulane can do it, not USM. It's not feasible. Someone is trying to pad a resume.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Doesn't MSU have a completely online MBA program? Why would the IHL support creating another one? Would anyone consider an MBA from USM more valuable than one from MSU?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

CoB Tactician wrote:

Doesn't MSU have a completely online MBA program? Why would the IHL support creating another one? Would anyone consider an MBA from USM more valuable than one from MSU?

Yes. No good reason. hell no.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

B-School Blues wrote:

All the big schools can attract executives from a city, region, or across the country. Companies will usually pay.
Does south Mississippi have that many executives who would want this degree? Would their companies pay for it? No and no. Do they want a USM degree? No. Tulane can do it, not USM. It's not feasible. Someone is trying to pad a resume.

Actually, the market for an "executive MBA" would be pretty much national. And the real factor in the minds of those who populate that market is not "name recognition" of the institution or "credibility of the program." It is "how much does it cost," both in terms of tuition & time required. What the target market really wants is a low-tuition program that requires minimal work. Lots of "life experience credit" would be way cool, too.

USM could roll out the "correct design" for such a program & have a real "gold mine." At least that's what certain portions of the administration envision. I'm not sure that's exactly what Doty has in mind, but I guaran-dam-tee you that's what SFT has in mind.

So, how about an "executive master's" in polymer science? Weekend & flex-term classes. Dispense with chemistry prequisites. These are managers we're training, right?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Actually, Vict, there might be a market for something like that. I have an inlaw with a grad degree in a science, which has led him to management in food production. He recently made the comment to me that he really needed a business degree too. He's no longer active in the lab, but is in management over several plants. I assume this is the sort of person the x-mba would target??

Date: Jul 5, 2005

CoB Tactician wrote:

Would anyone consider an MBA from USM more valuable than one from MSU?

A more fundamental question is why does anybody choose USM over UM and MSU for any degree. With the exception of a few programs, the answer is they know it will be easier.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Vic-

A market may be national theoretically, but I doubt too many people would want a degree from Southern Mississippi. We can barely stock our current MBA program with any quality whatsoever--and it is a cake walk.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Here's the issue with Executive MBA programs: They serve a purpose. However, what particular purpose the student has in mind determines what type of ExMBA program they pursue. For a true pursuer of knowledge, an ExMBA with a residence component from a good quality university will be critical. For military personnel and others who need the degree to get a raise (regardless of knowledge gained), it's more of a "check the box" thing, so it doesn't matter what school grants the degree.

Tulane already has an ExMBA program that is working well given Tulane's name recognition, but it costs a lot. USM would want to be the "low cost" provider of ExMBAs. Translated: USM wants to capture the military and government market from teh Coast, Stennis, etc., where these people can start at USM and finish even if they get transferred to another assignment.

Many members of the CoB faculty have a problem with the idea of being used to fend off Tulane for the sake of making money. The MBA programs in place are woefully understaffed and undefunded. There is no administrative budget to speak of, and almost nothing is available to be spent on advertising. The ExMBA idea is the equivalent of buying a new car on credit when you can't make your mortgage payment. The ExMBA would be run entirely on the discretionary effort of CoB faculty or as part of an increased load. If by some chance an out-of-load stipend were available, it would be well below market wages.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

So I would get to (in effect) prep a new course with a new delivery format (some face-to-face, some internet) for little or no pay? Addtionally, I would get no course release and would actually get an increase in teaching load so that Doty, Shelby, and company could make more money and have more bragging points for their vitae and PR materials?

Where can I sign up?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Invictus wrote:

the real factor in the minds of those who populate that market . . is "how much does it cost," both in terms of tuition & time required. What the target market really wants is a low-tuition program that requires minimal work.

Does the college of education still has the masters program attainable in only two summers?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Jack by nimble, Jack by quick wrote:

Does the college of education still has the masters program attainable in only two summers?

How embarrasing, Jack. That's as embarrasing as being asked if you've stopped beating your spouse.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

There is a very deliberate attempt to "muddy the waters" surrounding CoB's proposed hybrid delivery format MBA. The dome wanted an executive MBA and the business school said no to that. Shelby's minions, outside the CoB, tried to do an end-run around the business school last fall/winter before the gulf library fiasco was exposed. The business faculty is very clear about the differences between an Executive MBA, on-line buy a degree program, and a quality hybrid program. The current campaign is directed at obfuscating the differences in a poorly disguised attack on Doty.

Try this example. The MFA is a well-established degree, understood in the ARTS. An arts department knows what a quality MFA program entails and holds dominion over how to offer it. Assume that polymer scientists from a different college tried to secretly design an MFA program and call it a "Professional MFA" because they thought it had more marketing zip. That's what happened to the CoB.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Muddy Waters wrote:

The dome wanted an executive MBA and the business school said no to that.

If the business school said no, that should have been the end of it. I've never heard of a university where the administration takes the lead in proposing new programs in a particular discipline New program ideas and proposals begin at the departmental level. A deparment or college whose discipline is usurped should protest vigorously and in unison. The more I view this board, the more dirty linen I see.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Muddy Waters wrote:

There is a very deliberate attempt to "muddy the waters" surrounding CoB's proposed hybrid delivery format MBA. The dome wanted an executive MBA and the business school said no to that. Shelby's minions, outside the CoB, tried to do an end-run around the business school last fall/winter before the gulf library fiasco was exposed. The business faculty is very clear about the differences between an Executive MBA, on-line buy a degree program, and a quality hybrid program. The current campaign is directed at obfuscating the differences in a poorly disguised attack on Doty.

Try this example. The MFA is a well-established degree, understood in the ARTS. An arts department knows what a quality MFA program entails and holds dominion over how to offer it. Assume that polymer scientists from a different college tried to secretly design an MFA program and call it a "Professional MFA" because they thought it had more marketing zip. That's what happened to the CoB.

Here again is an attempt to justify an unnecessary program through misdirection.

I've seen the proposed hybrid MBA model (through my grad council rep via a COB grad council rep), and it's not anything that I would want to be a part of. The hybrid MBA is simply another name for an online/Executive MBA. It's partially face-to-face and partially online. Given the problems with USM's online (distance) programs, it should be clear that adding another program to the current offerings is a bad idea. Security/assessment/learning are suspect.

Why does USM NEED to offer an online MBA? Why can't USM offer a quality MBA face-to-face only? Scaling back operations would do USM a world of good overall.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Laundromat wrote:

Muddy Waters wrote:
The dome wanted an executive MBA and the business school said no to that.
If the business school said no, that should have been the end of it. I've never heard of a university where the administration takes the lead in proposing new programs in a particular discipline New program ideas and proposals begin at the departmental level. A deparment or college whose discipline is usurped should protest vigorously and in unison. The more I view this board, the more dirty linen I see.

Because Doty wants to check the "started a hybrid MBA program" box on his vita so that he can get a better job and get the hell out of USM. Then the COB faculty will be left to clean up the mess.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Doty's problems in the CoB began long before proposing the hybrid MBA program. He began kicking faculty in the crotch at the beginning of his first full semester on board. After gathering all of the vitae in the college, he began holding one-on-one interviews with faculty. As the interviews took place and faculty began sharing their "stories" about them around water coolers, it became evident that HD had not really looked at the vitae at all. And, why would he? He was a 40 year old that knew everything about the world of academics there was to know. He had gone to UT-Austin and chaired at Syracuse (Hell, he thought he could change Thames if he had to).

He was critical to a fault of most faculty in the college. The favor mongers got a head start and avoided much of this, but listening to them was much of his downfall (as always). The saga continues, but now with an ill-conceived hybrid graduate program. As another poster points out above, it will succeed --- if at all --- only through discretionary effort. Unfortunately, that is all but pissed away by now. His latest round of evaluating staff has doomed support from that quarter.

All he has left is the ferrel cats. Last I heard they are pro-Thames.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

There have been stories on this board about new chairs in the COB. Did Doty appoint them with or without faculty consent/votes?

Date: Jul 5, 2005

You don't really believe that there would be open selection of chairs in the CoB do you? A few were contacted by HD. I heard that when the new econ. chair was selected even the assoc. dean didn't know about it until the announcement was made. Now some econ. faculty are moving offices to get further under the radar when the new chair comes back from vacation.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Some b-school posters have been saying for some time that Doty isn't what he seems to those outside the college.

In his first months, he conducted one on one meetings with faculty, ostensibly to discuss their vitas. As has already been posted, he used this opportunity to tell faculty how bad they suck and how great he is.

Then, he perpetuated some fairly recent cronyism by allowing the status quo of the college political climate to continue. Think "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours."

He threw the university community a curve with his response to the "Black Friday" memo from Grimes, but, as has been supported many times, that was simply a political move to save his own skin and not some heroic gesture to support academic freedom.

He has consistently pushed agenda items that serve no long-term purpose but that fill out lines on his vita. He has placed many layers of separation between himself and b-school students and has no meaningful interaction with said students. He has never taught an undergraduate class at USM.

For those who are interested in finding the truth, think of a tenured b-school faculty member that you have known for some time. Then ask them if the Doty rumors are true. Ask about his personality, his "management style," and his general behavior. Unless you ask one of his five or six flunkies, I believe you'll get answers that will support what has been said here.

Doty wants a hybrid MBA because it represents a big line on the vita and may be obtained through compromise with SFT (read: he didn't bow to SFT and made SFT compromise).

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Doty is not a real dean, that is for sure. He's in way over his head. I saw it coming when he took the job. Now it's too late for many. The place is a dirty as ever.

Date: Jul 5, 2005

Voice in the Darkness wrote:

He has never taught an undergraduate class at USM.

Voice, I thought he taught a 300-level strategy course. Are you sure your info is correct?