Hankins and "no, not now" - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 28, 2005

Hankins and "no, not now"

Date: Jun 29, 2005

RE: Hankins and "no, not now"

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Seeker,

Ole Miss is 42-10-2 all-time versus Memphis. That works out to be an approximate 80% winning % that the Rebs hold against the Tigers. Not what I'd call a "Memphis Dominance".

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Give me the score the last two years? I think you'll see a 0% winning percentage. And I don't expect you to beat them this year either. Tommy West is no push over and he has your number.

Not even Eli could muster a win against the Tigers as a Senior. Keep remembering the 60's it'll ease the pain.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

It must be awful to be the third-best football program in the state. Let's compare our all-time records against, say, Alabama. If ya'll have more than 5 all-time wins, I'll kiss your ass.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Sumrall Rebel wrote:

It must be awful to be the third-best football program in the state. Let's compare our all-time records against, say, Alabama. If ya'll have more than 5 all-time wins, I'll kiss your ass.

Pucker up, I hope you have some chapstick.

USM is 6-32-2 against Bama, with all games played on the road.

Head to head USM is 6-18 vs. UMiss. But, since 1970 when USM begin giving the same number of football scholarships as UMiss the record evens to 6-8. In the last ten games played between the schools USM holds a 5-5 record against UMiss.

On the other hand UMiss is 9-41 against Alabama with half of those games being played at home. On the Road UMiss is 3-22 against Bama

Looks like you come out on the short end of the stick again.

Information provided by the College Football Data Warehouse:

College Football Data Warehouse

You have been served.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Seeker wrote:

If ya'll have more than 5 all-time wins, I'll kiss your ass.

Pucker up, I hope you have some chapstick.

Chapstick? Seeker, you're very, very confused.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Sumrall Rebel wrote:

... If ya'll have more than 5 all-time wins, I'll kiss your ass.

Now down in Louisiana de saying is, "I'll kiss ya *ss on de corner of Bourbon n Canal and give ya a half hour to draw a crowd". Of course dat was some serious betting, ya. Seeker may want an hour to get a crowd.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Seeker wrote:

Sumrall Rebel wrote: It must be awful to be the third-best football program in the state. Let's compare our all-time records against, say, Alabama. If ya'll have more than 5 all-time wins, I'll kiss your ass. Pucker up, I hope you have some chapstick. USM is 6-32-2 against Bama, with all games played on the road. Head to head USM is 6-18 vs. UMiss. But, since 1970 when USM begin giving the same number of football scholarships as UMiss the record evens to 6-8. In the last ten games played between the schools USM holds a 5-5 record against UMiss. On the other hand UMiss is 9-41 against Alabama with half of those games being played at home. On the Road UMiss is 3-22 against Bama Looks like you come out on the short end of the stick again. Information provided by the College Football Data Warehouse: College Football Data Warehouse You have been served.

Seeker, only 19 of those 50 games between UM and UA were played in the State of Mississippi.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Sumrall Rebel wrote:

Seeker, Ole Miss is 42-10-2 all-time versus Memphis. That works out to be an approximate 80% winning % that the Rebs hold against the Tigers. Not what I'd call a "Memphis Dominance".

SR, you had Seeker at "hello." USM is only 36-18-1 against Memphis, not nearly as good as your team's 42-10-2 (over about the same span of games).

Date: Jun 29, 2005

Jerry Maguire wrote:

Sumrall Rebel wrote:
Seeker, Ole Miss is 42-10-2 all-time versus Memphis. That works out to be an approximate 80% winning % that the Rebs hold against the Tigers. Not what I'd call a "Memphis Dominance".
SR, you had Seeker at "hello." USM is only 36-18-1 against Memphis, not nearly as good as your team's 42-10-2 (over about the same span of games).

Yes I was mistaken on that point. But, after researching the subject more closely, it appears that UMiss has won only one game on the road against Alabama in the history of the series, how pathetic is that? They beat Bama 22-12 in Tuscaloosa in 1988.

How sad is that....Bring up USM's record against Bama when you have won only one game on the road in 32 tries.

Date: Jun 29, 2005

This is such a painful topic for me. I wish we could quietly close the discussion and slip away. Thanks.

LVN (B.A., Univ of Memphis)

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Seeker,

I have to remind myself that you, like most USM fans, like to define the rules of the game so that it only shows what you want it to show. You say that Memphis has dominance over Ole Miss. I say that Ole Miss is 42-10-2 (approx. win. pct. = 79%) all-time against the Tigers and 7-3 (approx. win pct. = 64%) in games played since 1990. Hardly what I'd call dominance by Memphis, but I'll let the other posters decide.

You say: forget about history.
I ask myself: Why are USM fans so quick to dismiss history and tradition?
The answer is simple: Because USM has no football history or tradition to fall back on.

And don't start about those D-II years...we're talking about the big leagues here. USM fans want to scratch everything that happened prior to the last 15 years because they know that before Brett Favre, they were nothing. Their highest NFL draft pick was a punter. But USM fans look around and say "we need some traditions" and then they make them up. "To the top", "Nasty Bunch", "the Rock", and "Nitchampburg" are all made-up "traditions" that were concocted in an effort to legitimize their low-rent football program. USM has some football coach nicknamed "Bear", which I find interesting because when I hear "Bear", I think of Alabama, not USM. Can't you guys even come up with an original nickname over there? Traditions are earned on the field over time, not thought up in the AD's office as part of a marketing scheme. But then again, I wouldn't expect Seeker to know anything about that. Since he's reportedly less than 30, he has no idea what went on before 1975.

USM fans, when faced with arguments such as those above, often resort to the "well, at least we're not a bunch of racists" card. Let me tell you something: We may have the Flag, "Dixie", and Colonel Rebel, but USM has a far worse history. Seeker, did you know that when USM was known as the Mississippi Southern "Southerners" that their mascot was "General Nat"--Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest?? Just in case you didn't know, your former mascot was a representation of the founder of the Ku Klux Klan. You ought to be real proud of that fact. Really.

Winning some Conference USA titles does not a "storied program" make. I find it interesting that USM doesn't get invites to join a better conference. Louisville did. I wonder why Southern didn't. Maybe it's the substandard facilities. Perhaps it's the second-rate campus. How about the academic turmoil? Or the total lack of ability to sell out that glorified high school stadium?

The fact is that USM will never be Ole Miss.
USM will never be the flagship school in the state.
USM will never be in the SEC or an equivalent conference.
USM will never be able to compete consistently with the big boys.
USM will never challenge for the D-I national championship.
USM will never have "The Grove" no matter how many knock-offs you try (like "The District").
USM will never be more than a teacher's college in the eyes of the state of Mississippi.

I feel a swell of pride when I see those Ole Miss commercials at halftime of TV games. You know, the ones narrated by Morgan Freeman. The ones that showcase the beautiful campus, the traditions, the mystique that is Ole Miss.

One more question: When was the last time USM played a regular-season game on CBS or ABC or on any network besides ESPN/ESPN2 at night on a Thursday? I guess it's fitting: I love to watch a good JayVee game on a Thursday night...then I can go watch Oak Grove play on Friday.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Sumrall Rebel

You are correct, UMiss has all the traditions, all the history, all the advantages. But, what gripes you the most is that on a national level you are still considered no better than Southern Miss. The only time the team has been competitive in the past 50 years is when someone named Manning wa playing.

When you watch those USM games on Thursday, how do you feel when the announcers point out that UMiss is scared to play USM? Is that something else that makes you swell with pride?

Also, did you actually attend UMiss. My guess is that you didn't.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Seeker, didn't Memphis beat USM last year?

Date: Jun 30, 2005

As I reread my post, I was thinking I should develop a thought or two a little more.

Where did USM's coaches come from?

From USM: Slay (1912), Green (1937-1942, 1946-1948), Underwood (1969-1974), and Bower (1991-present)

From Mississippi State: Williams (1913), Dillie (1914-1916),

From Ole Miss: Anderson (1919), O'Mara (1920), Austin (1921-1923), Lumpkin (1930), Vann (1949-1968),

From Alabama: Hubert (1931-1936)

Unsure: Bobo (1924-1927), Collins (1975-1981), Carmody (1982-1987), Hallman (1988-1990)

Other: Saunders (1928-1929) played 2 years at Mississippi State, 1 year at Georgia Tech, and 1 year at Auburn

Looks like USM football owes a lot to Ole Miss, since we've provided you a coach for almost 30% of your football seasons. "Pie" Vann, your most storied coach, came from Oxford.

Now, to your new post:

Viewed the same nationally? By whom? By USM fans? Yes. By anyone who knows about football? Not a chance. That's more of your little man syndrome. Perhaps USM finishes higher in the rankings because they don't play the schedule Ole Miss does. The tough part of USM's schedule is filled with teams that major conference programs use as homecoming fodder.

Scared to play USM? That's a laugh. If the University of Mississippi plays USM, it's a lose-lose for Ole Miss. If Ole Miss wins, they lose; they're supposed to beat USM. If Ole Miss loses, then they lose because they're never supposed to get beat by USM. That "you're scared to play us" line is the old stand-by for little schools who want a crack at the big boys. Maybe USM had some success in the past few meetings, but again, over time, Ole Miss will prevail the vast majority of the time. Oh, yeah, that's right, you just twist history to fit your argument.

Another thought: you can just make up rivalries whenever you want, just like you did with Tulane and the "Battle for the Bell." USM/Marshall can become the "Fight for the Fiddle" as the two hillbilly schools face off. Maybe you could rename the USM/Houston game the "Showdown for the Sandwich" and the winner could walk away with a Subway Party Sub to eat on the bus ride home. Or possibly you could just rename the USM/Alabama game "Annual Loss".

When USM fans recall the greatest wins in USM history, they talk about beating Ole Miss, State, Alabama, Auburn, etc., in REGULAR SEASON GAMES. When Those schools' fans talk about greatest games, they talk about national championships, undefeated seasons, major bowl victories (back when not even every top 25 team got into a bowl), etc. That's the difference between Ole Miss and USM.

You say that Ole Miss is a has-been program. I say USM is a never-was and never-will-be program.

USM has two players that they revere: Guy and Favre, a punter and a vicodin-addicted television crybaby who is washed up and too dumb to realize it. At least Guy went out while he was still respectable.

By the way, are you proud of how Derrick Nix was handled by USM coaches and doctors? I wonder how he really feels about USM late at night when he's all alone and in pain from the abuse he suffered.

Did I attend the University of Mississippi? Yes, I did. I was there from 1959-1962 (BA in English) and law school (JD) from 1963-1965. Oh, yeah, that's right--that all doesn't matter because it happened before Bower became coach at USM.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Sumrall Rebel wrote:

Did I attend the University of Mississippi? Yes, I did. I was there from 1959-1962 (BA in English) and law school (JD) from 1963-1965. Oh, yeah, that's right--that all doesn't matter because it happened before Bower became coach at USM.

Man, you really devoted some time to this recitation of facts. I won't argue with anything you've said, other than the gratuitous slam at Favre. It really pains me to read such posts, not because they're unfounded or illegitimate, but because Mississippi is so small, so poor, and so maligned by people who've never set foot inside the state line that we should be engaging in mutual support rather than internicine warfare. I attended my first Ole Miss commencement when I was 1 year old. My Mom and all her brothers, and their wives and children are all Ole Miss alums. My Dad and his brothers all graduated from Mississippi Southern College. I didn't attend either school. Within our family there exists a mutual respect for each university, and a tacit acknowledgement that USM will never be Ole Miss, but rather something else of equal value. That's all I've got to say. If you're OM class of '62, and OM law '65, then you went to school with my aunt and uncle, and I probably have met you at some OM booster event. I root for the Rebels, the Bulldogs, and the Golden Eagles. So should we all. I'd urge that we adopt a more conciliatory, less bellicose approach to these sports debates, in hopes that it will fuel the intra-state cameraderie we so desparately need.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Look at USM's last wins over out-of-state SEC opponents:

2000: Alabama (losing team)

1996: Georgia (losing team)

1994: LSU (losing team)

1991: Auburn (losing team)

USM's 1990 wins over both Alabama and Auburn were the last in the category above against winning teams. But, AU went only 8-3-1 in 1990 and then fell into a 2-year funk with institutional control problems. That 1990 UA team went 7-5.

USM's win over Nebraska looks like nothing now, given that UN lost a bunch of games last year.

What about Bower's bowl wins. Last year's win over North Texas in the NO Bowl is not a bragging point. Beating TCU in Mobile in 2000 looks like a regular season conference win now. The 1997 Liberty Bowl win over Pitt was important for the program, but the opponent finished something like 6-6. The biggest win appears to be the 1999 Liberty Bowl over Colorado State.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

UM-USM Schizoid wrote:

I attended my first Ole Miss commencement when I was 1 year old. My Mom and all her brothers, and their wives and children are all Ole Miss alums. My Dad and his brothers all graduated from Mississippi Southern College. I didn't attend either school. Within our family there exists a mutual respect for each university, and a tacit acknowledgement that USM will never be Ole Miss, but rather something else of equal value...... I root for the Rebels, the Bulldogs, and the Golden Eagles. So should we all. I'd urge that we adopt a more conciliatory, less bellicose approach to these sports debates, in hopes that it will fuel the intra-state cameraderie we so desparately need.

UM-USM Schizoid,

There is much to be learned from your excellent comments about the need for mutual respect among the colleges. Millsaps College and Mississippi College are only a relatively short distance apart, but we don't see the athletic bickering there which occurs among some of Mississippi's public universities. The intra-state cameradie of which you speak is admirably reflected between those two schools. Their relationship on and off the field is of a friendly and collegial nature. It's been that way for decades.

Date: Jun 30, 2005

Henry Clay wrote:

UM-USM Schizoid,
There is much to be learned from your excellent comments about the need for mutual respect among the colleges. Millsaps College and Mississippi College are only a relatively short distance apart, but we don't see the athletic bickering there which occurs among some of Mississippi's public universities. The intra-state cameradie of which you speak is admirably reflected between those two schools. Their relationship on and off the field is of a friendly and collegial nature. It's been that way for decades.

That's because Millsaps and MC both know their roles and keep their mouths shut. If USM would be what it is supposed to be and not try to be the top research school in the state, you wouldn't have these types of problems.