CL, 6/23/05: Black Issues in Higher Ed/USM rank - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 23, 2005

CL, 6/23/05: Black Issues in Higher Ed/USM rank

Date: Jun 23, 2005

"Mississippi's national rankings for its Bagley College of Engineering persuaded MSU sophomore biological engineering major . . . to pick the Starkville school over Georgia Tech . . . . "

Mississippi State is a fine school and I'd be proud to be a Bulldog and to have an undergraduate degree from there, but it is not ranked above Georgia Tech in engineering in the 2006 USNews. Georgia Tech's graduate engineering school is ranked #4 overall (tied with the University of Illinois) out of the 50 graduate schools of engineering in the USNews rankings. GT is ranked #4 nationally in aerospace-aeronautical engineering, #3 in biomedical-bioengineering, #5 in civil, #6 in computer engineering (tied with Cal Tech and the University of Michigan), #6 in electrical engineering (tied with the university of Michigan), #8 in environmental-environmental health enginering (tied with Carnegie-Mellon, Cornell, and the University of Michigan), and #1 in industrial-manufacturing engineering, and #7 in mechanical engineering. But rankings are not everything when selecting an undergraduate school, and I'd much prefer to spend my four undergraduate years at MSU than at GT. But Mississippi's public universities must give prospective students the correct information. USM is not the only guilty party.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

I didn't read that quote as "Mississippi State is ranked higher than Georgia Tech." I read it as "Mississippi's premier engineering program is nationally ranked, which helps keep students at home [even if the alternative is a more highly ranked school]."

Date: Jun 23, 2005

All-In-One wrote:

I didn't read that quote as "Mississippi State is ranked higher than Georgia Tech." I read it as "Mississippi's premier engineering program is nationally ranked, which helps keep students at home [even if the alternative is a more highly ranked school]."

I didn't read it quite like you did. Where is MSU's engineering program nationally ranked? I hope you're right, but ranked where and by whom?

Date: Jun 23, 2005

North of U.S. 20 wrote:

All-In-One wrote:
I didn't read that quote as "Mississippi State is ranked higher than Georgia Tech." I read it as "Mississippi's premier engineering program is nationally ranked, which helps keep students at home [even if the alternative is a more highly ranked school]."
I didn't read it quite like you did. Where is MSU's engineering program nationally ranked? I hope you're right, but ranked where and by whom?

Mississippi State Rankings 1

Online Engineering

Black Students

Date: Jun 23, 2005

North of U.S. 20 wrote:

All-In-One wrote: I didn't read that quote as "Mississippi State is ranked higher than Georgia Tech." I read it as "Mississippi's premier engineering program is nationally ranked, which helps keep students at home [even if the alternative is a more highly ranked school]." I didn't read it quite like you did. Where is MSU's engineering program nationally ranked? I hope you're right, but ranked where and by whom?

I'd like to know if any academic program at any of Mississippi's taxpayer supported universities is nationally ranked at the present time. That information should be at our fingertips.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Quotron wrote:

Mississippi State Rankings 1 [url=http://press.arrivenet.com/edu/article.php/653527.html]

Thanks, Quotron. Now we're getting somewhere:

"STARKVILLE, Miss.--Mississippi State now ranks 24th among the nation’s universities in engineering research and development expenditures, according to a new report from the National Science Foundation."

Any other takers?

Date: Jun 23, 2005

"...13 percent black enrollment, up from about 8 percent when Khayat became chancellor in 1995"

Has Ole Miss's sports program grown that much?

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Bulldog fan wrote:

Has Ole Miss's sports program grown that much?

I don't think that sports rankings are what we are talking about, Bulldog fan. You've got the wrong board

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Middle of Nowhere wrote:

Quotron wrote:
Mississippi State Rankings 1 [url=http://press.arrivenet.com/edu/article.php/653527.html]
Thanks, Quotron. Now we're getting somewhere:
"STARKVILLE, Miss.--Mississippi State now ranks 24th among the nation’s universities in engineering research and development expenditures, according to a new report from the National Science Foundation."
Any other takers?

I thought we were talking about quality of programs, not how much they are given to spend. As other posters have suggested elsewhere on this board, in Mississippi quality=money.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

I thought we were talking about quality of programs, not how much they are given to spend. As other posters have suggested elsewhere on this board, in Mississippi quality=money.

No, we were talking about being "nationally ranked." Nobody put any caveats on what the ranking criterion had to be. This just shows that MSU isn't lying when it claims to be "nationally ranked."

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Quotron wrote:

Nobody put any caveats on what the ranking criterion had to be. This just shows that MSU isn't lying when it claims to be "nationally ranked."

I concede, Quotron. But then I have always been a vocal supporter of MSU. Isn't it interesting that nobody questions MSU data in the way USM data is questioned? It's all about trust.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

North of U.S. I-20 wrote:

Quotron wrote: Nobody put any caveats on what the ranking criterion had to be. This just shows that MSU isn't lying when it claims to be "nationally ranked." I concede, Quotron. But then I have always been a vocal supporter of MSU. Isn't it interesting that nobody questions MSU data in the way USM data is questioned? It's all about trust.

I think the greater problem with the Thames era claims is more related to a lack of data than to bogus. I don't believe this is by accident. He's able to boast of achievements and rankings without providing any verifiable documentation, thus foreclosing the possibility of anyone impeaching his data. One cannot question what ain't there to be scrutinized.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Fact Checker wrote:

I think the greater problem with the Thames era claims is more related to a lack of data than to bogus...

Should have read "than to bogus data." Sorry, too quick on the trigger with the enter key.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Fact Checker wrote:

One cannot question what ain't there to be scrutinized.

What color is the interior of a watermelon before it is cut open? We know what color or lack of color it should be from a theoretical viewpoint, but who's to know for sure? And so it is with USM.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Educated Guess wrote: What color is the interior of a watermelon before it is cut open? We know what color or lack of color it should be from a theoretical viewpoint, but who's to know for sure? And so it is with USM.

Honey, the USM watermelon was cut open a long time ago. The question is whether we can wrap up what's left.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Dripping off the table wrote:

Honey, the USM watermelon was cut open a long time ago. The question is whether we can wrap up what's left.

It looks red to me. Why have we been told that it is soylant green?

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Quotron wrote:

Mr. Wizard wrote:

I thought we were talking about quality of programs, not how much they are given to spend. As other posters have suggested elsewhere on this board, in Mississippi quality=money.

No, we were talking about being "nationally ranked." Nobody put any caveats on what the ranking criterion had to be. This just shows that MSU isn't lying when it claims to be "nationally ranked."

Your reply brings to mind a little anecdote related to me by a senior professor at my alma mater when I informed him I was accepting a position at USM.

It seems this professor received a call from a USM computer science student who wanted to transfer to the professor’s institution. The student informed the professor that he was reluctant to leave the nation’s top computer science program and was concerned about the quality of the program he was about to enter. The professor was of course taken aback by the student’s characterization of the USM program and questioned the student as to where he received his information. The student responded by challenging the professor to produce names of superior programs, and the professor obliged by reciting a list of the top programs in the field. Of course these programs were associated with schools you would expect to have strong programs in such a field.

In defense of our former student, this was in the days when USM had an incredible number of students majoring in computer science. I’ve heard that at one time USM may have in fact had the largest number of undergraduate computer science majors in the nation.

My point, if I have one, is that when you use the term “ranked” without careful attention to what “ranked” means you run the risk of leaving people misinformed. I think what is being ranked is of some importance. Don’t you?

By the way, I did not suggest that the good folks at MSU had sought to mislead anyone, and I certainly did not imply that they were lying. Actually, I rather admire the school, and I’ve been very impressed by the MSU faculty members I’ve met.