Perspective, Please wrote:

---

Who is to say that integrity is worth more than dollars? It may be for you, but your values don't apply to everyone; they apply only to you. Forcing your values on others is like forcing your religion (or lack thereof) on others. Claiming that there is an absolute "right" and an absolute "wrong" is ludicrous. People act in the manner that best benefits them at that point in time. Further, this is not an ethics question. The system in place at USM allows administrators to reward those who the administrators feel serve the university, college, and/or department best. I can hear a lot of academic mindset from these responses, but I hear very little "real world" experience. Since I have both, I can tell you that this goes on everywhere and at every university, regardless of SACS status, regardless of who the president is, and regardless of how much or how little "shared governance" takes place. If you question this, think of that student (and you all have had one) who had a borderline grade that you bumped "up" because they were pleasant, came to class, and "tried hard" (whatever that means). If you have ever done this, then you gave rewards based on a set of subjective criteria.

---

PP, if you are a USM faculty or almni I hope you do not show your black and gold in public.

Perspective, Please wrote:

---

 Might as well say "I love dysfunction."

---

Based on your "Who is to say that integrity is worth more than dollars?" philosophy I'd say that what you love most is yourself.

Gulf Coast wrote:

---

Perspective, Please wrote:
 Might as well say "I love dysfunction."
Based on your "Who is to say that integrity is worth more than dollars?" philosophy I'd say that what you love most is yourself.

---

Are you even capable of reading? Your comment tells me that you have nothing of substance to add and are too afraid to actually consider my points.

With the formatting problems it's nearly impossible to tell who is responding to whom, especially on this thread. Maybe you could preface your responses with an address to the poster you're answering, as you would do in a letter. Just a thought.

Alternative wrote:

---

LVN wrote: With the formatting problems it's nearly impossible to tell who is responding to whom, especially on this thread. Maybe you could preface your responses with an address to the poster you're answering, as you would do in a letter. Just a thought.

Alternative wrote: It would also be helpful to separate the quote to which you refer from your reply. This can be done in one easy step. Just place your cursor between the two and press "Enter." Voila!

---

Like this!

Ethics,

Why should voters without children in schools vote for tax increases? They either (a) have no children, (b) have children who go to private schools, or (c) have children who are no longer "school age". In any event, systems such as that which you are proposing overlap into socialist ideology -- everyone pays for the common good. By the same token, I would suspect you're against Social Security reform of any type. You seem to prefer a situation in which a portion of society pays for programs it does not or will not use to the benefit of another group. Did you also support the USM bond issue? That would have had everyone paying for USM's athletics additions, whether they have gone to, currently go to, or will ever go to a USM sporting event. Was it wrong of Thames to ask for it? No! Why pay your own way when you can get it from someone else? By the same token, is it wrong for voters to vote it down? No! Why pay for something you won't use? I guess by your logic, I should help (monetarily) my neighbor build a fence to keep his dog out of my yard. That would benefit both of us. Maybe that's a bad analogy to use with you.

I have a strong feeling that you are one of those people who want it all: integrity, money, fame, respect, and a bag of chips. Well, at USM you can't have it all. I suspect you've found this out and that's why you're so bitter. Your previous statements have given me a clue about who you are. If I am correct, then you may rest assured that you will never catch me. You may have resources at your disposal but you'll never even know what I'm up to until I'm long gone, regardless of how many FOIA/MORA suits you file. I'll never have an 'A' publication, yet I'll always be at the "top of the list" when it comes to the raise pool. As they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

Perspective, Please wrote:

---

Ethics, Why should voters without children in schools vote for tax increases? They either (a) have no children, (b) have children who go to private schools, or (c) have children who are no longer "school age". In any event, systems such as that which you are proposing overlap into socialist ideology -- everyone pays for the common good.

I believe you have answered your own question.  We have public educational institutions because of the common good.  That was my point.  We all pay taxes for the common good.  You were saying that in your value system, "People act in the manner that best benefits them at that point in time."  I'm the one that earlier said, "That is being "short sighted".  
 

 ...I have a strong feeling that you are one of those people who want it all: integrity, money, fame, respect, and a bag of chips.

I'm happy to say that at least I have integrity, respect and the bag of chips.

Well, at USM you can't have it all. I suspect you've found this out and that's why you're so bitter.

What makes you think I'm bitter, just because I'm not quiet about the corruption?

Your previous statements have given me a clue about who you are. If I am correct, then you may rest assured that you will never catch me.

I didn't mean you personally.  I meant all of those with your philosophy that drag this nation down. 

You may have resources at your disposal but you'll never even know what I'm up to until I'm long gone, regardless of how many FOIA/MORA suits you file. I'll never have an 'A' publication, yet I'll always be at the "top of the list" when it comes to the raise pool. As they say, it's not what you know, it's who you know.

So what?  That won't stop my efforts.  I glad you may be leaving, but I wouldn't wish you on any community.  Why would any community want you?  You think of no one but yourself.

 

 

qwerty wrote:

---

I've saved the above post and will probably cite it in an essay I'm writing on how uncompetative the central south is in the global economy. It is a classic statement of why Mississippi is absolutely dead last in every meaningful measure of quality of life, health, income, education, crime [Hattiesburg's crime and murder rates dwarf NYC--betcha didn't know that!]. Calling public school socialism. I'd laugh if I hadn't heard it so often when I used to live in Mississippi.

The inability to see a connection between investment in public goods, like education, and one's own wealth and well-being is a hallmark of this state's dysfunction and has its roots in the state's oppressive racial order. When you stigmatize over half of your population, lynch them, put your boot on the back of their neck, its hard to develop a sense of community and interconnectedness that supports improving society. White Mississippians have paid a high price for their racial order in lower incomes, less education, poorer health, even lower values in their real property. Black Mississippians have paid an even higher price.

Mississippi's had leaders that understood these problems and offered meaningful ways to overcome them--Gil Charmichael, William Winter come to mind. Success for them was elusive, however.

There wasn't even a "Mississippi Miracle" in the 1990s. For all of the seeming prosperity of the decade, the state only managed to not fall further behind the rest of the nation. Since 1999, it hasn't even treaded water. Average income as a percent of the national average has fallen.

I moved to Mississippi in the 1990s thinking the state was entering the national mainstream. It wasn't and I left. I don't see much that is positive on the horizon. Even FORBES magazine, which is militantly conservative and favorably disposed to Gov. Barbour, described the state's economy as "a basket case".

---

qwerty,

It's amazing to me that so many "erudite" and "educated" individuals such as yourself cannot see the failing of the education system in the US. The failing is not for a lack of money, because schools are failing even in areas in which large dollar amounts are spent on a per-student basis.

The education problem can be traced to the consolidation movement in which smaller, neighborhood-based schools were abandoned in the name of equality. Because of segregated living (and, by the way, this was and is ALL OVER THE U.S. -- not just in the South (check LA, NY, Illinois, Indiana, etc., etc.)), policymakers decided it was imperative to bus students from all over to centralized schools.

When neighborhood schools were abandoned, so was much of the affinity for a school and the close ties between students, teachers, and parents. These ties were the backbone of the educational system. If a student had problems, chances were that the teacher (who usually lived in the neighborhood) knew the student's parents. Intervention could take place more easily, and everyone had a stake in the system, because the neighborhood "owned" the school.

When the "ownership" started to slip, so did the quality of education. Teachers had fewer avenues and assistance to correct students' failures. Quality of classroom instruction fell as teachers had less invested in the system. As the situation spiraled out of control, we moved closer and closer to what we see today. Private schools mirror the public schools of 40 years ago and public schools today are, well, an embarrassment. And you want me to continue funding such a dysfunctional system. Do you even know what's really going on in the real world of public education?

The liberal solution is always to spend more money. Just throw more money at the problem and it will go away. Never mind that liberal politicians have undermined administrators' ability to deal with discipline issues. Never mind that communities do not hold young people responsible for their actions. More money will solve the problem.

Go ahead and write your essay. Do so knowing that unless you address the historical failings of liberalism in education, you are writing fiction. Of course, you probably know nothing about it because you didn't experience the educational system firsthand in the South. You probably only talked to a few people who would support your inherent bias.

Now, you have butted into a discussion between a disgruntled, well-kept professor and myself. Be gone.

Robert Campbell wrote:

---

Hmm...
I wonder what handles "Perspective, Please" has used on this board in the past.
Once again, the rhetoric is becoming familiar.
RC

---

I have been posting under the handle Perspective, Please for at least 4 months. Sometimes I post, sometimes I don't. If you choose, you can find my posts months ago. Sometimes many "regular" posters (like LVN, Invictus, etc.) have agreed with my views. Again, you're in the middle of a discussion between a person with an agenda that is hidden to almost all except me. This agenda has nothing to do with SFT or the IHL directly. He is a disgruntled prof who is attempting to shape yet another thread into a way to further his personal agenda.

Third Witch wrote:

---

With all due respect, Perspective Please, this board is not a venue for private conversations, and it is not appropriate for you to tell others to "butt out" so to speak.
It looks to me like another one of those COB-type fistfights. You boys really do need to take it outside.

---

I dunno, TW, I find this pretty entertaining. Perhaps PP could tell us what he thinks the other person's (Ethics?) "hidden agenda" really is, since he's the only one who has figured it out.

In the meantime, let's let PP continue to enlighten us with his defense of appeasement politics. Since my guess is he's of the correct ethnic/religious/philosophical/sexual persuasion, I'm sure he would have done fine in 1930s Germany--"just following orders." "Not complaining" was definitely high on the agenda of the followers of Adolf & Co. He probably also would have seen the wisdom of contributing to the Mafia in their efforts to maintain order at various locations in the U.S. in the past.

The SFT scandal has three major dimensions: 1) local (Shelboo aids bidness types with access to cookie jar, slaps around a few uppity intellectuals); 2) North-South (UM-MSU axis uses Shelboo as pawn to dismantle USM as we knew it); 3) national (zealots of the rabid right bring way, truth, & light to liberal heathens--and Shelboo is gleeful messenger). All three of these dimensions require imposition of severe authoritarian structures, since there will certainly be strong resistence from the unenlightened.

I say let 'em rant.

Please, let's refer to Perspective Please as PersP.  PP will always be Present Professor to me.

Perspective, Please wrote:
Now, you have butted into a discussion between a disgruntled, well-kept professor and myself. Be gone.

---

We'll participate in any discussion we choose on this board.

qwerty,

I, for one, think such an essay is long overdue. As I understand it, the system of education being paid for by the land owners grew from the original founders of the small towns priding themselves on having a church and a school. Although the school was primarily there because of their own kids, it served all of the kids. Where does that get lost? Is there a critical size?

PersP,

My highschool got integrated during my junior year. There were the usual walkouts and forming of academies, but I have absolutely no doubt about it being the right thing to do. The HB High Schools were an embarassment in terms of facilities. Within less than five years, two small country schools had become one elite suburban school and the academies had all closed their doors. Again, I'm sure t has something to do with critical size and community make up, but I do NOT think that we solve all of the school's problems by making them smaller.

This is one of the most clever traps I have ever seen set up on the board, and there have been many!  Words of wisdom to board buddies:  don't fall into it!