Interesting Parallel - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 14, 2005

Interesting Parallel

Date: Jun 14, 2005

In both cases, they're in for a really big shock.

It takes a certain level of understanding to be shocked. I haven't seen much shock in the community. It's taken three years to get from SFT is great to mild bewilderment coupled with some unease that maybe all is not well. It may never get much further than that.

Date: Jun 17, 2005

Parallelogram wrote:

It was pointed out on another thread that nine (of 12) of the USM women's basketball players have quit the team since the end of the season. The Lady Eagles suffered through a 9-20 season, and these young women struggled through every practice and every game. I can imagine how frustrating it must have been to continually lose, even though they were giving it their best effort -- they were simply overmatched. One poster who claims to be a USM fan basically said that it's OK, because most of them weren't Division I quality players. I assume that (s)he thinks Joye Lee-McNelis will replace all 9 with superstars who will lead USM to a women's Final Four and national glory. What's interesting to me is that we, the faculty, are viewed just as these young women are -- expendable. We give our all to USM, even in the face of terrific adversity. If some of us leave, then the USM fans say "good riddance, we'll get somebody better, somebody who LOVES USM" In both cases, they're in for a really big shock.

Are you suggesting that a 9 - 20 record is acceptable as long as everybody is showing up for practice and playing in the games?

Date: Jun 17, 2005

First of all, RR, it's a game.

Second, I wasn't saying anything about the record being acceptable or unacceptable, though I did mention that they "suffered" through this past season. Draw your own conclusion there.

Third, it is unacceptable to me to have a situation in which a school and some players (12) make mutual committments and then the coach (who is the school's representative in this deal) runs off 75% of the players. Win or lose, USM should not be running off these players, because they were willing to commit to USM when (apparently) nobody else would.

If we switch this conversation to Eustachy's treatment of his players, it is interesting that he ran off so many players this year. He needs to get his people in the program? Funny that he didn't complain about having Tim Floyd's players at Iowa State.

Sooner or later, this lack of decency is going to ruin the USM athletics program.

Date: Jun 17, 2005

interesting that usm football over the years has taken many players that are not "div-I" level players and had some success (bret favre and sammy winder come to mind)

you can bet that other schools recruiting mention the treatment of players at usm

"if you dont perform at usm's expectation, they will terminate your scholarship" or maybe "shun" you would be a better word for mens basketball

which is a better coach...take less talent and win or more talent and win?

i still think eustachy will never see a recruiting class to their senior season

Date: Jun 17, 2005

3 point land wrote:

interesting that usm football over the years has taken many players that are not "div-I" level players and had some success (bret favre and sammy winder come to mind)
you can bet that other schools recruiting mention the treatment of players at usm
"if you dont perform at usm's expectation, they will terminate your scholarship" or maybe "shun" you would be a better word for mens basketball
which is a better coach...take less talent and win or more talent and win?
i still think eustachy will never see a recruiting class to their senior season

The first point is very good. Mr. Winder told me once that he has the original USM scouting report framed on the wall in his house. It basically says he was "too small and too slow" to get regular playing time but that he might be encouraged to walk on. He walked on & the rest is written in Denver Broncos history.

This illustrates a point that runs through my mind. The mark of truly GREAT coaches is that they can take kids who are "too small and too slow" & coach them into greatness. Of course, Sammy did a bit of growing himself

Could it be the coach who isn't Division I quality?

I once had a colleague (same teaching department) who coached basketball. He used to talk a lot about coaching as teaching. I got tired of this hogwash & suggested that I might have some bang-up great classes if I could go pick the students I wanted & give them full rides, stackable with any other financial aid they were awarded & could put them in a special dorm, give them special counseling & tutorial services, etc. He countered with the statement that if "he" didn't win, he would lose his job. I replied that if a sufficient number of my students failed, I would probably lose my job, too.

Date: Jun 17, 2005

Invictus wrote:

3 point land wrote: interesting that usm football over the years has taken many players that are not "div-I" level players and had some success (bret favre and sammy winder come to mind) you can bet that other schools recruiting mention the treatment of players at usm "if you dont perform at usm's expectation, they will terminate your scholarship" or maybe "shun" you would be a better word for mens basketball which is a better coach...take less talent and win or more talent and win? i still think eustachy will never see a recruiting class to their senior season The first point is very good. Mr. Winder told me once that he has the original USM scouting report framed on the wall in his house. It basically says he was "too small and too slow" to get regular playing time but that he might be encouraged to walk on. He walked on & the rest is written in Denver Broncos history. This illustrates a point that runs through my mind. The mark of truly GREAT coaches is that they can take kids who are "too small and too slow" & coach them into greatness. Of course, Sammy did a bit of growing himself Could it be the coach who isn't Division I quality? I once had a colleague (same teaching department) who coached basketball. He used to talk a lot about coaching as teaching. I got tired of this hogwash & suggested that I might have some bang-up great classes if I could go pick the students I wanted & give them full rides, stackable with any other financial aid they were awarded & could put them in a special dorm, give them special counseling & tutorial services, etc. He countered with the statement that if "he" didn't win, he would lose his job. I replied that if a sufficient number of my students failed, I would probably lose my job, too.

I agree with you in spirit, Invictus, but what if you kicked students out of your course (forced disenrollment) to make your distribution look better? That's what LE is doing...and he's disregarding the "promise" USM made to these young people.

The National Letter of Intent the student athletes signed binds them to the university, not a particular coach. Perhaps the fault lies not only with LE but also RG and SFT for not honoring the university's committment.

Date: Jun 17, 2005

Parallelogram wrote:

I agree with you in spirit, Invictus, but what if you kicked students out of your course (forced disenrollment) to make your distribution look better? That's what LE is doing...and he's disregarding the "promise" USM made to these young people.
The National Letter of Intent the student athletes signed binds them to the university, not a particular coach. Perhaps the fault lies not only with LE but also RG and SFT for not honoring the university's committment.

I agree entirely. When I had that exchange with the coach, I was pointing out how hypocritical it was to call coaching "the highest form of teaching" (an exact quote of my colleague) when he got to hand-pick the "students."