Calling B.S here - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Calling B.S here

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness man,

It seems like we've been over this territory a bunch already.

I expect you know all about it, too, from trolling this board under different names in the past.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:
That's what 95% of people in Hattiesburg consider the AAUP a joke.

Not true--I live in Hattiesburg, too.

But you're right about the other--the most egregious and upsetting comments made by Toy McLaughlin were those about the faculty at the university that he is supposed to be representing on the foundation board. Those were pretty bad, but then, the rifle on top of the dome comments were pretty bad, too. I don't understand your point about the degree of bad in relation to his comments. It was all really, really BAD judgement.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Robert Campbell wrote:

Bidness man,
It seems like we've been over this territory a bunch already.
I expect you know all about it, too, from trolling this board under different names in the past.
Robert Campbell

Campbell

There is only two things that seperate you and me, #1 I love USM and #2 I have a degree from USM.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Nothing like a troll on a rainy Saturday evening. But this troll has picked an old issue that has been thoroughly discussed. Boring. .

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

Campbell There is [are] only two things that seperate [separate] you and me, #1 I love USM and #2 I have a degree from USM.

#3 Campbell got an education along with his degree.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Magnolia wrote:

Bidness Man wrote:
Campbell There is [are] only two things that seperate [separate] you and me, #1 I love USM and #2 I have a degree from USM.
#3 Campbell got an education along with his degree.

Couldn't prove it by his instigating here.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

Magnolia wrote: Bidness Man wrote: Campbell There is [are] only two things that seperate [separate] you and me, #1 I love USM and #2 I have a degree from USM. #3 Campbell got an education along with his degree. Couldn't prove it by his instigating here.

Go take a look at his academic vita (that means his R-E-S-U-M-E), and then go back to school and work on your ability to spell, construct sentences, and think.

As the history of Mississippi unfortunately and too sadly shows, sometimes you need an outside instigator or two to help stand up for justice.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

95% of people in Hattiesburg consider the AAUP a joke.

Uh, Bidness man, I hate to break this to you, but 95% of the academic world thinks that USM under Shelby is a joke.

Okay -- I lied: it's more like 99%.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

#1 I love USM

BM--

I have a serious question: what do you mean when you say "I love USM." I'm not flaming, I am just not sure what people mean when they talk about "loving" an organization or institution.

If enough change takes place, does the institutional identity remain the same? Does it depend on location, physical appearance, name? For example, Howard College moved to a new campus when it became Samford University. I wonder if there are still people who "love" Howard College, or do they love Samford now?

Does loving an institution mean anything more than that? Does it bestow any particular credential, skill, knowledge, authority, or insight?

Date: Jun 11, 2005

ram wrote:

Bidness Man wrote:
#1 I love USM

BM--
I have a serious question: what do you mean when you say "I love USM." I'm not flaming, I am just not sure what people mean when they talk about "loving" an organization or institution.
If enough change takes place, does the institutional identity remain the same? Does it depend on location, physical appearance, name? For example, Howard College moved to a new campus when it became Samford University. I wonder if there are still people who "love" Howard College, or do they love Samford now?
Does loving an institution mean anything more than that? Does it bestow any particular credential, skill, knowledge, authority, or insight?

I'm not Bidness Man, but I think those who have positive college undergraduate experiences tend to have fondness for their respective undergraduate institutions.

To answer your question, I think many who attended Howard College lost a great deal of "love" for their institution when it changed names and locations. Samford just isn't the same place they went to school. Their memories are tied to classrooms, buildings, lawns, etc., that are no longer a part of that school. However, Howard College and Samford University were/are both Baptist institutions and therefore have a common thread running through many of its/their graduates.

Again, I think this is a phenomenon specific to those who soaked up the college experience at a school with particular charm.

Bidness man is probably wanting everything at USM to stay frozen in time so that every time he visits the campus it is just as it was when he attended. Likely, this is a response to the aging process --- as we age, we resist change because it reminds us that we are changing. As such Bidness man shouldn't be chastized for his statement. he loves USM as it was when he attended and wants it to remain unchanged forever.

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

That's what 95% of people in Hattiesburg consider the AAUP a joke.

Once upon a time, a statment like that would have bothered me. Now, I'm ok with that.

Back to grading papers, 5 weeks is short.

Mas tarde,

Date: Jun 11, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

That's what 95% of people in Hattiesburg consider the AAUP a joke.

95% of the people in Hattiesburg wouldn't know what AAUP was. Probaby three-quarters of them would tell you that "that organization for retired people is no joke." Ask George W. Bush.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

Bidness Man wrote:

After reading the latest threads and comments about McLaughlin, all I can say is that I call B.S. on all of you. From the comments I saw on the below threads, it is obvious that the root of the disdane on this board for McLaughlin was his comments about the lazy faculty. I have suspected this the whole time and there is now no question in my mind. Post from Campbell, Invicus and others make it clear that if he had not made the comments concerning the faculty being lazy that ruffled feathers. Had those comments not been made, you guys would have never even been intereted in the comments about the rifle and the dome. The problem is that not even the pitiful excuess of a newsrag like the American would pick up on it. You had to have the rifle comment before they would even raise an eyebrow. That's what 95% of people in Hattiesburg consider the AAUP a joke.

You are wasting your breath, Bidness. These people aren't interested in fact. They don't care about the context of Toy McLaughlin's comments. They don't care about what kind of person he is, and they don't care how much he has done for the university. Their only interest is to try to use his comments, out of context, to do as much damage as possible. These people have accomplished little on their own, and they can feel adequate only if they can bring everybody else down to their level. Frotunately, some reputations aren't destroyed so easily. Truth usually prevails against slanderous attacks.

Whichever one of them that said the general public doesn't know what the AAUP is is correct. That's the sad part. The general public is beginning to think that all the faculty is like these people. They don't understand the difference between these individuals and the rest of the faculty, and that is the problem. The ones that put messages on this message board are causing the legitimate faculty a problem that will be very hard to live down.

The problem with our university won't be solved with a new administration. We get a new adminstation and we still have these same negative and vindictive individuals. The university will continue its downward slide, because the community will be so alienated from the faculty that there will be no support. With no public support, the university system fails.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

MT,

USM got along reasonably well before Shelby became president, and once he is gone (and assuming that a competent successor is found), I suspect that USM will get along reasonably well again. USM faculty are no different from faculty elsewhere; the only factor that makes USM unique is Shelby.

By the way, are you really Gracie's Mother?

Date: Jun 12, 2005

Mamma,

Toy might well have raised a deal of cash for the university, and I assume that is what you mean by gushing over how much he has done for us. Well thanks to him for that. However, he did put his foot in it in a big way -- like it or not. His comments, in context or out, seem hateful and -- well they do not pass the WWJD rule now do they? I do not say this because of some kind of inferiority complex believe me. I have lived here for 30 years and have never even heard of Toy -- I am not jealous of someone that I have never met and is not even important enough for me to have heard of in this small place. I, like many folks who post on this board, though, actually enjoy a national and indeed international reputation. I publish books that folks have read on at least four continents. Maybe Toy and you are both jealous of me -- a person who you have to slander because you know in your heart that I matter. You do not even matter here. Sorry.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

I just finished working on a Sunday for no pay. Sound honest enough? What did you do today?

Date: Jun 12, 2005

Thanks, Dad. I shot a 77 today. My beef is with USM Sympathiser. Hope ya have a good week.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

That honest day's work crap, though, tars us all with the same brush. And also who is to say that USM Symp does not put in an honest day's work? Do you know him? If you quit slinging mud at us all you will find that there are plenty of us at USM (maybe symp included) who you would actually like and admire (and the reverse might be true as well). I have no idea who you are or what you do (except that you might be a fair golfer). Thus I will make no claim about you. Nor will I make sweeping claims about other people like you. If you pay us the same courtesy there is no telling what we could get done for USM.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

Symp, put in an honest day's work? Symp has a couple of "distinguished professor of " after his name and a list of publications as long as your arm. Plus he has his doctorate from a Tier 1. Symp's probably put in an honest day's work before I've poured my second cup of coffee.

This is too funny.

Date: Jun 12, 2005

Sorry that I did not know of symp's accomplishments. Since we post under assumed names how could I have known and how could you assume that I (or anyone else) should know. I was just trying to point out to another poster that if you do not know someone do not make assumptions. And true to my rule I did not. Do not assume that I should know.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

USM Sympathizer wrote:

MT, USM got along reasonably well before Shelby became president, and once he is gone (and assuming that a competent successor is found), I suspect that USM will get along reasonably well again. USM faculty are no different from faculty elsewhere; the only factor that makes USM unique is Shelby. By the way, are you really Gracie's Mother?

Nope. I'm another outsider who just heard of this message board. It lives up to everything I heard.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

I think RAM's point is well taken. IN Silence of the Lambs, An FBI agent says, "You will fall in love with the Bureau, but it won't fall in love with you."

After a certain amount of mistreatment, faculty, alums and students start realizing that the feeling is gone.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Mama Troll wrote:

You are wasting your breath, Bidness. These people aren't interested in fact. They don't care about the context of Toy McLaughlin's comments. They don't care about what kind of person he is, and they don't care how much he has done for the university. Their only interest is to try to use his comments, out of context, to do as much damage as possible. These people have accomplished little on their own, and they can feel adequate only if they can bring everybody else down to their level. Frotunately, some reputations aren't destroyed so easily. Truth usually prevails against slanderous attacks. Whichever one of them that said the general public doesn't know what the AAUP is is correct. That's the sad part. The general public is beginning to think that all the faculty is like these people. They don't understand the difference between these individuals and the rest of the faculty, and that is the problem. The ones that put messages on this message board are causing the legitimate faculty a problem that will be very hard to live down. The problem with our university won't be solved with a new administration. We get a new adminstation and we still have these same negative and vindictive individuals. The university will continue its downward slide, because the community will be so alienated from the faculty that there will be no support. With no public support, the university system fails.

MT,

You sound just like Gracie's Mom to me. GM also tried mightily to drive a wedge between the "legitimate" faculty (those who GM imagines would never complain about the very worst administration) and the membership of the local AAUP chapter.

I am well aware of the context of Toy McLaughlin's comments, as you can see from my two entries about him on Liberty and Power. Whatever McLaughlin has done for USM is outweighed by what he has done to USM. His blind partisanship for Shelby Thames and his open disdain for nearly the entire faculty have made him a liability to the university. His open letter to the faculty is long on excuses and short on admissions of bad behavior.

I should also note that according to McLaughlin's now infamous commments, only professors who are loyal to Shelby Thames are legitimate. I'm wondering if that isn't your real definition of legitimate faculty as well.

Apparently you don't care how things are done at other universities, but I can assure you that public comments like Toy McLaughlin's would be totally unacceptable coming from a university foundation president... just about everywhere except USM.

There is no reason why USM can't do much better, under a new administration. Even after the terrible damage that Thames has done (and may not have finished doing), there will be tremendous relief when he leaves and anyone reasonably competent comes in to replace him.

But from your point of view, universities never get into trouble because of bad administration. They get into trouble only because faculty members complain about the administration.

I can see that this is going to the troll mantra between now and May 2007.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Daddy wrote:

Sorry that I did not know of symp's accomplishments. Since we post under assumed names how could I have known and how could you assume that I (or anyone else) should know. I was just trying to point out to another poster that if you do not know someone do not make assumptions. And true to my rule I did not. Do not assume that I should know.

Of course I didn't expect you to know Symp's background. Few do. But he'd got beaten up rather badly elsewhere and it was a good spot to mention those facts, most of which I didn't know myself until very recently.
I don't think it hurts to point out that many of our posters are not wild-eyed radicals, but in fact are respected academics from all over.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Daddy wrote:

Mamma, Toy might well have raised a deal of cash for the university, and I assume that is what you mean by gushing over how much he has done for us. Well thanks to him for that. However, he did put his foot in it in a big way -- like it or not. His comments, in context or out, seem hateful and -- well they do not pass the WWJD rule now do they? I do not say this because of some kind of inferiority complex believe me. I have lived here for 30 years and have never even heard of Toy -- I am not jealous of someone that I have never met and is not even important enough for me to have heard of in this small place. I, like many folks who post on this board, though, actually enjoy a national and indeed international reputation. I publish books that folks have read on at least four continents. Maybe Toy and you are both jealous of me -- a person who you have to slander because you know in your heart that I matter. You do not even matter here. Sorry.

One of the points that escape you is that Toy McLaughlin is a good man who is respected for his work ethic, his honesty, his fairness, his community service, his character, and his wonderful humor. Perhaps his side of this story would be worth listening to if you had a mind to be fair. It's obvious that you don't, however. You just want to keep things stirred up even when it is clear that SFT is leaving. You'll find something to attack even after Shelby.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Mama Troll wrote:

Daddy wrote: Mamma, Toy might well have raised a deal of cash for the university, and I assume that is what you mean by gushing over how much he has done for us. Well thanks to him for that. However, he did put his foot in it in a big way -- like it or not. His comments, in context or out, seem hateful and -- well they do not pass the WWJD rule now do they? I do not say this because of some kind of inferiority complex believe me. I have lived here for 30 years and have never even heard of Toy -- I am not jealous of someone that I have never met and is not even important enough for me to have heard of in this small place. I, like many folks who post on this board, though, actually enjoy a national and indeed international reputation. I publish books that folks have read on at least four continents. Maybe Toy and you are both jealous of me -- a person who you have to slander because you know in your heart that I matter. You do not even matter here. Sorry. One of the points that escape you is that Toy McLaughlin is a good man who is respected for his work ethic, his honesty, his fairness, his community service, his character, and his wonderful humor. Perhaps his side of this story would be worth listening to if you had a mind to be fair. It's obvious that you don't, however. You just want to keep things stirred up even when it is clear that SFT is leaving. You'll find something to attack even after Shelby.

Mama Troll, if you or anyone else believes that the faculty's views on basic academic principles are going to change simply because there is a change in university administration, you are sadly mistaken. My take on all of this is that the faculty, present and future, will never again tolerate the type of abuse we're talking about. Not for a minute. You might as well get used to that.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Mama Troll wrote:

Toy McLaughlin is a good man who is respected for his work ethic, his honesty, his fairness, his community service, his character, and his wonderful humor. .

Mamma Troll,

I've not seen anybody question his goodness, work ethic, honesty, fairness, community service character, or humor. He may be next in line for the Pope's job, as Billy Graham's choir director, or dubbed to star as Moses in the biographical movie of Charlton Heston's life. You miss the point. The faculty has every right to get a bit testy when somebody that closely affiliated with the official structure of the university depicts them as lazy.

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Little old lady wrote:

Of course I didn't expect you to know Symp's background. Few do. But he'd got beaten up rather badly elsewhere and it was a good spot to mention those facts, most of which I didn't know myself until very recently.

Aw, shucks, LOL, I thought I had done the beating! Why did you have to go burst my balloon?

Date: Jun 13, 2005

Robert Campbell wrote:

Mama Troll wrote: You are wasting your breath, Bidness. These people aren't interested in fact. They don't care about the context of Toy McLaughlin's comments. They don't care about what kind of person he is, and they don't care how much he has done for the university. Their only interest is to try to use his comments, out of context, to do as much damage as possible. These people have accomplished little on their own, and they can feel adequate only if they can bring everybody else down to their level. Frotunately, some reputations aren't destroyed so easily. Truth usually prevails against slanderous attacks. Whichever one of them that said the general public doesn't know what the AAUP is is correct. That's the sad part. The general public is beginning to think that all the faculty is like these people. They don't understand the difference between these individuals and the rest of the faculty, and that is the problem. The ones that put messages on this message board are causing the legitimate faculty a problem that will be very hard to live down. The problem with our university won't be solved with a new administration. We get a new adminstation and we still have these same negative and vindictive individuals. The university will continue its downward slide, because the community will be so alienated from the faculty that there will be no support. With no public support, the university system fails. MT, You sound just like Gracie's Mom to me. GM also tried mightily to drive a wedge between the "legitimate" faculty (those who GM imagines would never complain about the very worst administration) and the membership of the local AAUP chapter. I am well aware of the context of Toy McLaughlin's comments, as you can see from my two entries about him on Liberty and Power. Whatever McLaughlin has done for USM is outweighed by what he has done to USM. His blind partisanship for Shelby Thames and his open disdain for nearly the entire faculty have made him a liability to the university. His open letter to the faculty is long on excuses and short on admissions of bad behavior. I should also note that according to McLaughlin's now infamous commments, only professors who are loyal to Shelby Thames are legitimate. I'm wondering if that isn't your real definition of legitimate faculty as well. Apparently you don't care how things are done at other universities, but I can assure you that public comments like Toy McLaughlin's would be totally unacceptable coming from a university foundation president... just about everywhere except USM. There is no reason why USM can't do much better, under a new administration. Even after the terrible damage that Thames has done (and may not have finished doing), there will be tremendous relief when he leaves and anyone reasonably competent comes in to replace him. But from your point of view, universities never get into trouble because of bad administration. They get into trouble only because faculty members complain about the administration. I can see that this is going to the troll mantra between now and May 2007. Robert Campbell

Well you sound like Pewee Herman to me, but that you say I sound like someone else is relevent only in that to admit that I might be still another community member that has little respect for your goup would be unacceptable to you. You obviously think of yourself as a gallant crusader of some sort, but you are actually a boring tyrant wannabe. Obviously the people at Clemson don't think much of you, or you wouldn't spend so much of your time here.

Let's get to the bottom line. It's not about Shelby. It's cetainly not about Mr. McLaughlin. It's about you precious tenure. You just don't have enough confidence in your ability to hold down your jobs without it. Come on, Dr. Peewee. Come clean.

I am referring as many people as I can to this site to see for themselves what you and your minions are about. Let them decide for themselves. You are perhaps the best PR man Shelby Thames ever had.